IC anti zerg mechanic needed.

Minno

Neoakropolis wrote: »

There is no reason to currently run in Cyro other then capping keeps for emp but its so last season. Watched a 20 man DC group cap emp on a FULL AD pop server with Alessia being the last keep. No defense. During the good ole days, they would not have gone with out a fight but now its not cool to defend keeps. So I go into IC and see like 5 people in the whole zone.. Where is everyone!? So all the blobs from Cyro just run in IC now because it's the new hot spot. Taking back their keeps means nothing since the gates are all open anyways.

They are grinding the sewers

danno8

Psilent wrote: »

There is a way to wipe them. Pull those sweeper mobs into their zergs. Make sure you tag them, the players, and then watch as your Tel'var counter goes up.

If a mob gets the killing blow, you only lose 10% stones. I've tested this several times now. Pretty sure that means just tagging a player and running away as a mob kills them will not get you any TV's.

JamilaRaj

Use siege engines.
Hm, nevermind.

ScruffyWhiskers

Minno wrote: »

Correction: gated for DC on all but 2 campaigns.

Please not this meme again. DC kicks ass when it wants to. I don't know how many times I have logged in for a session and most of the map is blue.

That awful post with it's static data sample and bad inferences isn't something on which to bash the access rules design. For the millionth time, gated access establishes and safeguards equilibrium in the system. It provides negative feedback paths. What you have now is a system that will go asymptotic and be inherently chaotic. Hell, I'm grouping up and zerging for the first time and I played exclusively solo up until now. Sure the people I am playing with are nice, and the teamspeak is amusing at times. But the gameplay is no where near as fun for me personally. Oh Well.

Stikato

Tyr wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Or, the content could be gated like it was designed to be.

There's also the fact that for most people once they go into IC for the night, they will stay there whether their faction retains access or not.

There are two major parts to the concept of gating:

If you don't have access, you can't get in.
If you die inside IC without having access, you are kicked out. (The fact that there are safe areas is a stupid mechanic to begin with)

What happens?

- Cyrodiil has more meaning.
- Pve players want to help pvp to open access to IC.
- Holding on to IC access becomes a unifying alliance goal. omfg
- Being in IC has more meaning
- Hiding in IC without having access is cool
- So is hunting down those people and kicking them out
- Getting rewarded for pvp success, with a safer pve bonus zone

IC was not designed for everyone to running around in it. Nor was Cyrodiil designed to be pointless. This is all painfully obvious, and the consequences were equally obvious to MMO vets.

P3ZZL3

Gated Access is potentially coming in a campaign after the weekend according to Brian.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I think if they just removed healing from the game it would fix most of the problems. 1st healing stacks in large groups giving them a huge defensive advantage over small groups, and 2nd DPS also stacks in the same Venn diagram. Since nobody wants to entertain collision which is the only way to create a tactical disadvantage to standing inside each other, removing healing will make it so small groups can surround large groups and while overlapping the large groups circles of inclusion, have minimal exposure in the large groups circle.

You don't have to remove healing in PVE, just in PVP or nerf it down 75%+ more from where it is at now.

Collisions are highly needed ! no more zerg in a so small area that you are supposed to be only one in this.

ScruffyWhiskers

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Gated Access is potentially coming in a campaign after the weekend according to Brian.

Sadly one campaign won't solve the problem. Game theory will see to that. Even the campaign with the gated rules will most likely still be a mess due to lack of population most of the day. Maybe at prime time it will have a chance to work when you can't defect to the other campaigns first.

Angarato

no, l2p

ToRelax

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Gated Access is potentially coming in a campaign after the weekend according to Brian.

Even one campaign without gated access could be a problem, imo.
Who wouldn't just join the campaign where he gets access for free? Only those who already have access on the campaign with gated access, thus likely less risk. Provided they don't go to IC to PvP.

Stikato

ToRelax wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Gated Access is potentially coming in a campaign after the weekend according to Brian.

Even one campaign without gated access could be a problem, imo.
Who wouldn't just join the campaign where he gets access for free? Only those who already have access on the campaign with gated access, thus likely less risk. Provided they don't go to IC to PvP.

I totally agreed with this--before I got bored with 24/7 IC. And for the same reasons, it screws with the meta of the game to have different access rules for different campaigns.

But now, I would join the campaign with gated access for one simple reason: it may be more likely to have a pop in old Cyrodiil.

HeroOfNone

I've seen folks argue we need skill changes to stop the zergs but most times this just leads to abilities that are good for grinding but are rarely effective against another zerg. It's a herd mentality that needs to be broken by adding in new game systems that either force enemies to spread out to hold ground or restricts enemies access through queuing mechanics.

Attacking 2 or more keeps at once has long been the only effective way I've seen to split a zerg, or force them to lose a capture point, let's see something like that in IC.

Starshadw

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Define zerg in terms of numbers.
I though that prox det was anti zerg now.

*cue hysterical laughter*

Not only is proxy det still not anti-zerg - the zergs (and we're talking 20-40 players here) are still using it themselves. I've never seen so many red proxy det circles in my life, and given how much the zergs used it up top, that's saying something. I've seen 10+ of those red circles at least, all at one time, used by these zergs. They run it non-stop while swarming around. No reason not to - quick cast, so they don't even have to slow down for the animation - and once it explodes, they just cast another one. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

I honestly don't know who on the dev team thought that the changes they made were going to make proxy det the anti-zerg skill it was supposed to be, but no - no, it never was, and still isn't. The thing is - a small group trying to use proxy det will be rolled over by these zergs before their own proxy dets ever go off.

And meteor is back, because people have figured out that tossing caltrops down - with the increase in snare nastiness plus the stamina regen issue - makes it nigh impossible for the person targeted to do what we were once able to do - block and then roll dodge out of the remaining meteor AOE.

ToRelax

Starshadw wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Define zerg in terms of numbers.
I though that prox det was anti zerg now.

*cue hysterical laughter*

Not only is proxy det still not anti-zerg - the zergs (and we're talking 20-40 players here) are still using it themselves. I've never seen so many red proxy det circles in my life, and given how much the zergs used it up top, that's saying something. I've seen 10+ of those red circles at least, all at one time, used by these zergs. They run it non-stop while swarming around. No reason not to - quick cast, so they don't even have to slow down for the animation - and once it explodes, they just cast another one. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

I honestly don't know who on the dev team thought that the changes they made were going to make proxy det the anti-zerg skill it was supposed to be, but no - no, it never was, and still isn't. The thing is - a small group trying to use proxy det will be rolled over by these zergs before their own proxy dets ever go off.

And meteor is back, because people have figured out that tossing caltrops down - with the increase in snare nastiness plus the stamina regen issue - makes it nigh impossible for the person targeted to do what we were once able to do - block and then roll dodge out of the remaining meteor AOE.

Actually Meteor seems pretty bugged, as if it would lag everytime, you hear the sound but can not see nor block it at least most of the time.

I also don't think ZOS wanted to make Detonation an anti zerg tool anymore, there just is no reason to cap the number of targets increasing the damage at 5.

AhPook_Is_Here

ToRelax wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Gated Access is potentially coming in a campaign after the weekend according to Brian.

Even one campaign without gated access could be a problem, imo.
Who wouldn't just join the campaign where he gets access for free? Only those who already have access on the campaign with gated access, thus likely less risk. Provided they don't go to IC to PvP.

Yep, it has to be an all or nothing or you will have farm campaigns for every faction. You will have that anyway once you lock all of them but at least there will be 1 or 2 (in euro) competitive campaigns.

If you leave one open it will be the CoD campaign everyone will zerg on and all the rest will be farm campaigns.

FENGRUSH

ToRelax wrote: »

Starshadw wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Define zerg in terms of numbers.
I though that prox det was anti zerg now.

*cue hysterical laughter*

Not only is proxy det still not anti-zerg - the zergs (and we're talking 20-40 players here) are still using it themselves. I've never seen so many red proxy det circles in my life, and given how much the zergs used it up top, that's saying something. I've seen 10+ of those red circles at least, all at one time, used by these zergs. They run it non-stop while swarming around. No reason not to - quick cast, so they don't even have to slow down for the animation - and once it explodes, they just cast another one. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

I honestly don't know who on the dev team thought that the changes they made were going to make proxy det the anti-zerg skill it was supposed to be, but no - no, it never was, and still isn't. The thing is - a small group trying to use proxy det will be rolled over by these zergs before their own proxy dets ever go off.

And meteor is back, because people have figured out that tossing caltrops down - with the increase in snare nastiness plus the stamina regen issue - makes it nigh impossible for the person targeted to do what we were once able to do - block and then roll dodge out of the remaining meteor AOE.

Actually Meteor seems pretty bugged, as if it would lag everytime, you hear the sound but can not see nor block it at least most of the time.

I also don't think ZOS wanted to make Detonation an anti zerg tool anymore, there just is no reason to cap the number of targets increasing the damage at 5.

You know when the enemy is zerging you - theyve brought 5 people though!

Dreyloch

Rylana wrote: »

YOU STOP CLOAK AWAY NOW

IDK why but I thought of this when I read yer post....YOU NO CLOAK NO MORE! YOU GO AWAY NoWWwWwW!!!!

https://youtu.be/vAkXPpBnSkM?t=2m32s

Domander

Rylana wrote: »

YOU STOP CLOAK AWAY NOW

Come away from the pack...... I just wanna say "hi"

sagitter

Istant respawn deathmatch port inside the imperial City is stupid.
And with none defending keeps, or fightning in keeps, alliance war passives are useless.

Mojmir

increased lag-stops zerg. you cant tell me the lag isnt on purpose.

ewhite106b16_ESO

Proximity detonation needs to scale more based on # of enemy players nearby, and DECREASE in damage based on number of allies in the area. This would make it a tool used by smaller groups against zergs, not a tool for zerg trains to use on other zerg trains.

Mojmir

friendly fire would stop the zergs too

Rune_Relic

.......

1 Man group 100% stats - 1.0x TV stones
2 Man group 95% stats - 1.3x TV stones
3 Man group 90% stats - 1.6x TV stones
4 Man group 85% stats - 1.9x TV stones
5 Man group 80% stats - 2.2x TV stones
6 Man group 75% stats - 2.5x TV stones
7 Man group 70% stats - 2.8x TV stones
8 Man group 65% stats - 3.1x TV stones
9 Man group 60% stats - 3.4x TV stones
10 Man group 55% stats - 3.7x TV stones
11+ Man group 50% stats - 4x TV stones
12 man Group size limit

Nice fat juicy reward for zerging but with reduced combat effectiveness.
Nice fat 1vX opportunity for small groups to capitalise on.
The bigger the group the easier to kill.

NB 50% stats is much harsher than it seems as its not just the damage that is halved.
The mitigation is also halved.
The healing is also halved.
The regen is also havled

I figured we could turn a negative aspect into a positive one.

MrGrimey

Rune_Relic wrote: »

.......

1 Man group 100% stats - 1.0x TV stones
2 Man group 95% stats - 1.3x TV stones
3 Man group 90% stats - 1.6x TV stones
4 Man group 85% stats - 1.9x TV stones
5 Man group 80% stats - 2.2x TV stones
6 Man group 75% stats - 2.5x TV stones
7 Man group 70% stats - 2.8x TV stones
8 Man group 65% stats - 3.1x TV stones
9 Man group 60% stats - 3.4x TV stones
10 Man group 55% stats - 3.7x TV stones
11+ Man group 50% stats - 4x TV stones

Nice fat juicy reward for zerging but with reduced combat effectiveness.
Nice fat 1vX opportunity for small groups to capitalise on.
The bigger the group the easier to kill.

Over complicated... I think one or the other, either it's reduced stats for being in a Zerg or less stones lost for getting killed by a Zerg. Having 2 different mechanics is overkill

Mojmir

Best solution- remove stones.

Rune_Relic

Mojmir wrote: »

Best solution- remove stones.

Castration seems like overkill

Rune_Relic

MrGrimey wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

.......

1 Man group 100% stats - 1.0x TV stones
2 Man group 95% stats - 1.3x TV stones
3 Man group 90% stats - 1.6x TV stones
4 Man group 85% stats - 1.9x TV stones
5 Man group 80% stats - 2.2x TV stones
6 Man group 75% stats - 2.5x TV stones
7 Man group 70% stats - 2.8x TV stones
8 Man group 65% stats - 3.1x TV stones
9 Man group 60% stats - 3.4x TV stones
10 Man group 55% stats - 3.7x TV stones
11+ Man group 50% stats - 4x TV stones

Nice fat juicy reward for zerging but with reduced combat effectiveness.
Nice fat 1vX opportunity for small groups to capitalise on.
The bigger the group the easier to kill.

Over complicated... I think one or the other, either it's reduced stats for being in a Zerg or less stones lost for getting killed by a Zerg. Having 2 different mechanics is overkill

No you are missing the point...the zerg is gaining stones far quicker than anyone else.
This makes them priority target number 1.
To help take them down and allow the much coveted 1vX....there stats are hit as a price for all the extra stones.

The Zerg Have a big fat juicy carrot (increased stones) and a stick (penalty stats).
The 1vX group have a big fat juicy carrot (weak group loaded with stones) and less of a stick (many players to take down but they are weak).
If it was all carrot and no stick there would be no point.

Basically you make the zerg into a sitting duck loaded with luscious TV.

Leavng the groups removes all your stones..so bank them before ungrouping.
This prevents people just ungrouping at will to keep all stones and be restored to full power.

Domander

I think they should limit group size to 4. TV stone loss/gain limit to 4 as well (instead of 12), with the % loss scaling as such...

1 player = 100%
2 player = 80%
3 player = 60%
4 or more = 40%



They need to do something, I want my small scale pvp. Large groups can stay outside.

ToRelax

I don't think they should decrease total gains of the group or even stats for groups of max 4 players.

Kupoking

Starshadw wrote: »

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Define zerg in terms of numbers.
I though that prox det was anti zerg now.

*cue hysterical laughter*

Not only is proxy det still not anti-zerg - the zergs (and we're talking 20-40 players here) are still using it themselves. I've never seen so many red proxy det circles in my life, and given how much the zergs used it up top, that's saying something. I've seen 10+ of those red circles at least, all at one time, used by these zergs. They run it non-stop while swarming around. No reason not to - quick cast, so they don't even have to slow down for the animation - and once it explodes, they just cast another one. Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

I honestly don't know who on the dev team thought that the changes they made were going to make proxy det the anti-zerg skill it was supposed to be, but no - no, it never was, and still isn't. The thing is - a small group trying to use proxy det will be rolled over by these zergs before their own proxy dets ever go off.

And meteor is back, because people have figured out that tossing caltrops down - with the increase in snare nastiness plus the stamina regen issue - makes it nigh impossible for the person targeted to do what we were once able to do - block and then roll dodge out of the remaining meteor AOE.

Oh, well explain me why my grp of 8-12 can bomb grps of 24 using prox det