Puncturing Strikes + Battle Spirit Clarification Please

blabafat

Puncturing Strikes - Very familiar I'm sure. Templar's bread and butter DPS.

The ability does X amount of damage in its radius. Whoever is closest to you takes 140% additional damage.

Battle Spirit now reduces all damage in PvP by 50%.

I am wondering if this change affected the base amount of damage(X) or the 140% additional damage(in which case the single target damage would only increase by 70%)

I feel like the base damage was nerfed. On 1.6 live I was hitting for about 1.6-2K non crit per jab. That was with a 20% damage reduction in PvP. On 1.7 live I am hitting 700-1.1k non crit per jab. This is definitely more than a 30% damage nerf.

So I have a question for you ZoS, is the damage reduction on the base damage or the damage increase?

In my opinion the damage reduction should not apply to the aoe damage, since it's already VERY low, but to the single target damage. In which case it would be a little higher than it is right now in 1.7 live.

Thanks

Anazasi

Clarification would be nice.

asneakybanana

blabafat wrote: »

Puncturing Strikes - Very familiar I'm sure. Templar's bread and butter DPS.

The ability does X amount of damage in its radius. Whoever is closest to you takes 140% additional damage.

Battle Spirit now reduces all damage in PvP by 50%.

I am wondering if this change affected the base amount of damage(X) or the 140% additional damage(in which case the single target damage would only increase by 70%)

I feel like the base damage was nerfed. On 1.6 live I was hitting for about 1.6-2K non crit per jab. That was with a 20% damage reduction in PvP. On 1.7 live I am hitting 700-1.1k non crit per jab. This is definitely more than a 30% damage nerf.

So I have a question for you ZoS, is the damage reduction on the base damage or the damage increase?

In my opinion the damage reduction should not apply to the aoe damage, since it's already VERY low, but to the single target damage. In which case it would be a little higher than it is right now in 1.7 live.

Thanks

It was broke b4. It was getting an additive damage reduction instead of a base damage reduction. So even though in pvp you did 20% less damage to players you did 140% more damage to the closest target so you were doing 120% damage to the closest target. In pts jabs was extremely powerful because of this since when everything else was hitting like a wet nokdle jabs was cirtting for 4k+ a crit. So if your base damage is 100 your damage in 1.6 to the nearest target was 220. In pve it is 240. On the pts it was 190, and the way it is on live it should be 120 no matter whether it is a nerf to the multiplier or the base damage.

Mr_Nobody

I will answer for ZoS.

"Possibly working as intended, and if not, you can heal yourself."

FireCowCommando

My understanding is all the old abilities calculations used to work additively, in this case:

Old 140-20= 120% dmg boost

New calculation:

140x50= 70%

I could be totally wrong.

Ezareth

blabafat wrote: »

Puncturing Strikes - Very familiar I'm sure. Templar's bread and butter DPS.

The ability does X amount of damage in its radius. Whoever is closest to you takes 140% additional damage.

Battle Spirit now reduces all damage in PvP by 50%.

I am wondering if this change affected the base amount of damage(X) or the 140% additional damage(in which case the single target damage would only increase by 70%)

I feel like the base damage was nerfed. On 1.6 live I was hitting for about 1.6-2K non crit per jab. That was with a 20% damage reduction in PvP. On 1.7 live I am hitting 700-1.1k non crit per jab. This is definitely more than a 30% damage nerf.

So I have a question for you ZoS, is the damage reduction on the base damage or the damage increase?

In my opinion the damage reduction should not apply to the aoe damage, since it's already VERY low, but to the single target damage. In which case it would be a little higher than it is right now in 1.7 live.

Thanks

Battle spirit is supposed to reduce the *Final* value of an ability by 50%.

Puncturing Strikes was broken in that it was additive with battle spirit not multiplicative with it like it should have been. Damage shields were similarly affected by this bug.

It was always stupid when a templar could insta-gib you with a single ability from point blank range and this bug made that possible.

blabafat

I agree with all of you @Ezareth and @asneakybanana the damage on PTS was WAYYY TOO HIGH

But the damage on 1.7 live is really low lol. 1.1K max per jab and I have 30k Magicka with over 2.1k spell damage buffed. 25% from thaumaturge.

Ezareth

blabafat wrote: »

I agree with all of you @Ezareth and @asneakybanana the damage on PTS was WAYYY TOO HIGH

But the damage on 1.7 live is really low lol. 1.1K max per jab and I have 30k Magicka with over 2.1k spell damage buffed. 25% from thaumaturge.

I was actually talking about 1.6 where the issue was slightly less noticeable (but known to most theorycrafters I assume). The PTS just highlighted the issue to make it so obvious even the devs could see the problem and it was finally fixed.

Damage is low across the board @blabafat. 2.1K spell damage isn't all that high relative to what it could be. What is the damage output per cast of the ability on a single target?

blabafat

Ezareth wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

I agree with all of you @Ezareth and @asneakybanana the damage on PTS was WAYYY TOO HIGH

But the damage on 1.7 live is really low lol. 1.1K max per jab and I have 30k Magicka with over 2.1k spell damage buffed. 25% from thaumaturge.

I was actually talking about 1.6 where the issue was slightly less noticeable (but known to most theorycrafters I assume). The PTS just highlighted the issue to make it so obvious even the devs could see the problem and it was finally fixed.

Damage is low across the board @blabafat. 2.1K spell damage isn't all that high relative to what it could be. What is the damage output per cast of the ability on a single target?

Not sure of the total output, next time I have someone to test with I'll take a look

asneakybanana

My jabs while running 3.7-8k weapon damage and 33k stam are hitting for max like 2.5k on players but that x4 or x5 or however many times it hits is still decent. Thing is mag has always been weaker than stam in the jabs department so the damage nerf affects them even more than the stam builds.

Stikato

The stam morph (maybe, not sure really) is hitting like a truck out there. I watched two templars blast through the sewers, dropping everything but bosses in just a few seconds, just spamming jabs over and over.

blabafat

Stikato wrote: »

The stam morph (maybe, not sure really) is hitting like a truck out there. I watched two templars blast through the sewers, dropping everything but bosses in just a few seconds, just spamming jabs over and over.

asneakybanana wrote: »

My jabs while running 3.7-8k weapon damage and 33k stam are hitting for max like 2.5k on players but that x4 or x5 or however many times it hits is still decent. Thing is mag has always been weaker than stam in the jabs department so the damage nerf affects them even more than the stam builds.

Yeah the stamina one has always been higher, mainly because weapon damage is easier to get than spell damage.

Domander

Spell damage was reduced.

Rook_Master

There are a few reasons Jabs has gotten better with the last patch.

1. Block Nerf

Previously Jabs was bad because it was channeled, and you couldn't block-cast it. Now that blocking is nerfed you don't want to be blocking all the time anyway, and it doesn't hurt you to use this channeled skill.

2. Higher TTK

Jabs gives good sustained DPS now that TTK is higher overall. The stamina morph cost was lowered, there is a 25% chance to proc Burning Light passive, and the magicka morph heals you while doing DPS.

manny254

Rook_Master wrote: »

There are a few reasons Jabs has gotten better with the last patch.

1. Block Nerf

Previously Jabs was bad because it was channeled, and you couldn't block-cast it. Now that blocking is nerfed you don't want to be blocking all the time anyway, and it doesn't hurt you to use this channeled skill.

2. Higher TTK

Jabs gives good sustained DPS now that TTK is higher overall. The stamina morph cost was lowered, there is a 25% chance to proc Burning Light passive, and the magicka morph heals you while doing DPS.

I would have to disagree. While casting jabs you are 120% exposed. Not to mention most smart opponents will not allow you to hit them with multiple cast of jabs so it does not function that well as a sustained dps. When fighting a blocking opponent you may drain their stamina at an above average rate, but as said before your are exposed so a player with decent damage can force you on the defensive.

Takllin

Biting Jabs seems to be a lot better having played both Stam and Mag Templar right now

manny254 wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

There are a few reasons Jabs has gotten better with the last patch.

1. Block Nerf

Previously Jabs was bad because it was channeled, and you couldn't block-cast it. Now that blocking is nerfed you don't want to be blocking all the time anyway, and it doesn't hurt you to use this channeled skill.

2. Higher TTK

Jabs gives good sustained DPS now that TTK is higher overall. The stamina morph cost was lowered, there is a 25% chance to proc Burning Light passive, and the magicka morph heals you while doing DPS.

I would have to disagree. While casting jabs you are 120% exposed. Not to mention most smart opponents will not allow you to hit them with multiple cast of jabs so it does not function that well as a sustained dps. When fighting a blocking opponent you may drain their stamina at an above average rate, but as said before your are exposed so a player with decent damage can force you on the defensive.

Plus if you get rooted, you either have to roll dodge out or risk leaving yourself completely exposed for your opponent to maneuver around you while your stick in place jabbing.

asneakybanana wrote: »

My jabs while running 3.7-8k weapon damage and 33k stam are hitting for max like 2.5k on players but that x4 or x5 or however many times it hits is still decent. Thing is mag has always been weaker than stam in the jabs department so the damage nerf affects them even more than the stam builds.

Can confirm, he hits like a truck. Got me the other day and I died real quick...

I have to swap over to using 2H/DW instead of 2H/Bow, can get a lot more weapon damage and boost the jabs even higher.

Also Blab have you tried using DW on your magicka build yet? Obviously you can't get as high as a Stamplar but worth a shot.

Rook_Master

manny254 wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

There are a few reasons Jabs has gotten better with the last patch.

1. Block Nerf

Previously Jabs was bad because it was channeled, and you couldn't block-cast it. Now that blocking is nerfed you don't want to be blocking all the time anyway, and it doesn't hurt you to use this channeled skill.

2. Higher TTK

Jabs gives good sustained DPS now that TTK is higher overall. The stamina morph cost was lowered, there is a 25% chance to proc Burning Light passive, and the magicka morph heals you while doing DPS.

I would have to disagree. While casting jabs you are 120% exposed. Not to mention most smart opponents will not allow you to hit them with multiple cast of jabs so it does not function that well as a sustained dps. When fighting a blocking opponent you may drain their stamina at an above average rate, but as said before your are exposed so a player with decent damage can force you on the defensive.

I'm not saying Jabs is the best. I'm just explaining why it's better than it was in 1.6. And anyone that has been playing Templar for a long time will tell you that it is in fact better this patch.

manny254

Rook_Master wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

There are a few reasons Jabs has gotten better with the last patch.

1. Block Nerf

Previously Jabs was bad because it was channeled, and you couldn't block-cast it. Now that blocking is nerfed you don't want to be blocking all the time anyway, and it doesn't hurt you to use this channeled skill.

2. Higher TTK

Jabs gives good sustained DPS now that TTK is higher overall. The stamina morph cost was lowered, there is a 25% chance to proc Burning Light passive, and the magicka morph heals you while doing DPS.

I would have to disagree. While casting jabs you are 120% exposed. Not to mention most smart opponents will not allow you to hit them with multiple cast of jabs so it does not function that well as a sustained dps. When fighting a blocking opponent you may drain their stamina at an above average rate, but as said before your are exposed so a player with decent damage can force you on the defensive.

I'm not saying Jabs is the best. I'm just explaining why it's better than it was in 1.6. And anyone that has been playing Templar for a long time will tell you that it is in fact better this patch.

Well I have been playing templar since launch, and I am the highest ranked templar within my faction . I am also the highest aw rank templar that I am aware of getting there by playing dps. I think I understand the class. Jabs was much better last patch, but only a few players understood how to use it to its full potential.

blabafat

Rook_Master wrote: »

There are a few reasons Jabs has gotten better with the last patch.

1. Block Nerf

Previously Jabs was bad because it was channeled, and you couldn't block-cast it. Now that blocking is nerfed you don't want to be blocking all the time anyway, and it doesn't hurt you to use this channeled skill.

2. Higher TTK

Jabs gives good sustained DPS now that TTK is higher overall. The stamina morph cost was lowered, there is a 25% chance to proc Burning Light passive, and the magicka morph heals you while doing DPS.

First reason you stated is not a buff to jabs because we can't block cast it. Adding a penalty to doing something(blocking) that we cannot do with jabs is irrelevant.

Stamina jabs have always been more powerful, or at least able to become more powerful. There has always been a 25% chance to proc burning light(no change) and magicka morph has always healed you(no change).

Chrlynsch

blabafat wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

There are a few reasons Jabs has gotten better with the last patch.

1. Block Nerf

Previously Jabs was bad because it was channeled, and you couldn't block-cast it. Now that blocking is nerfed you don't want to be blocking all the time anyway, and it doesn't hurt you to use this channeled skill.

2. Higher TTK

Jabs gives good sustained DPS now that TTK is higher overall. The stamina morph cost was lowered, there is a 25% chance to proc Burning Light passive, and the magicka morph heals you while doing DPS.

First reason you stated is not a buff to jabs because we can't block cast it. Adding a penalty to doing something(blocking) that we cannot do with jabs is irrelevant.

Stamina jabs have always been more powerful, or at least able to become more powerful. There has always been a 25% chance to proc burning light(no change) and magicka morph has always healed you(no change).

True but before you could really block jabs all day while instant cast damaging them down... this is drains stam very quickly. Thus making it more viable against all player enemies.

Mr_Nobody

I might add this to the topic, i noticed heal % debuff from lethal arrow and such stacks with heal debuff from battle spirit, the same way jabs and other spells were nerfed in the recent PTS patches/live. This actually means that any heal you do, has only 20% effectiveness, instead of 30% less of the remaining from battle spirit, like every other spell is.

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