Tel Var System Needs Changes Immediately

CP5

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Svartulv wrote: »

Completely agree that 80% of loosing the stones is too much.
I earned about 300 stones according to achievements, but I have only ~60 of them really, and I'm not happy with it.

Yes, if you alone/in a small group, it's not a problem to avoid zergs but sometimes you can't really react on sudden attacks and you loose almost all the stones. This definitely should be changed, at least to loosing only 50% of stones.

The reason why you cannot only lose 50% of stones is that it would make the risk/reward system of stone multiplier not work. The system is supposed to reward you if you are willing to risk losing more to a gank(by carrying more stones on you), by gain more from farming.

Think about it. If you do not use a 2x multiplier, you are willingly losing 50% of the stones you could have otherwise. Gain 100 stones, and you basically lost another 100 due to playing it safe.

If you instead went for 2x multiplier(by carrying more stones on you), you are risking getting ganked and losing the same 50% of stones. So no difference.

However, you do not always get ganked, which makes the second option a no-brainer. Everyone would always use the 2x multiplier, because it is better when you are not ganked, and the same if you are ganked.

(for 3x and 4x multiplier it is even more pronounced)

There is no increased risk with a higher multiplier aside from the larger flat number of stones lost. If the loss rate was 20-25% and was multiplied by whatever multiplier you had active then it would be risk vs reward and people who don't want to risk much could just stay at low values fine.

If the loss was 25% multiplied by the stone multiplier, like you say, there would be no reason not to use 2x.

With 1x, you would be losing 50% of your stones, always (as you gather them).
With 2x, you would lose 50% of your stones, but not always, only when ganked. So why stay with 1x(and a guaranteed 50% loss) when you can go 2x (and only lose 50% in case of a gank)?

I mean, if you only have 1x you will only loose 20-25% of the stones so low risk low reward, 2x would loose 40-50%, 3x would loose 60-75% and 4x would loose 80-100%. Thats what I mean, isn't that risk reward?

MsPtibiscuit

Zergs are there to do the quests and the big bosses for achievement.
If you want to get stones, the best is with a group of 2-5 players.

Just spent the afternoon in the Imperial City, and this is hands down the best and most original content ZOS has made. It's cool to see that some devs are willing to do Massively Multiplayer content for the players.

Sallington

nimander99 wrote: »

10% TV stone loss is the only number that makes sense, its to easy to get nailed by the zerg and if you run, the Daedra get you and you still lose TV stones, it NEEDS to be lowered, the risk vs reward system has created a local in your area of sewers zerg farm circle which is lame. It feels like Neverwinter, only it isnt fun because you lose your money.

It does not need to be lowered. Lowering the stone loss to 10% would defeat the whole purpose and feel of IC. They already lowered it to 80% from 100% loss because of people whining.

Tankqull

CP5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Svartulv wrote: »

Completely agree that 80% of loosing the stones is too much.
I earned about 300 stones according to achievements, but I have only ~60 of them really, and I'm not happy with it.

Yes, if you alone/in a small group, it's not a problem to avoid zergs but sometimes you can't really react on sudden attacks and you loose almost all the stones. This definitely should be changed, at least to loosing only 50% of stones.

The reason why you cannot only lose 50% of stones is that it would make the risk/reward system of stone multiplier not work. The system is supposed to reward you if you are willing to risk losing more to a gank(by carrying more stones on you), by gain more from farming.

Think about it. If you do not use a 2x multiplier, you are willingly losing 50% of the stones you could have otherwise. Gain 100 stones, and you basically lost another 100 due to playing it safe.

If you instead went for 2x multiplier(by carrying more stones on you), you are risking getting ganked and losing the same 50% of stones. So no difference.

However, you do not always get ganked, which makes the second option a no-brainer. Everyone would always use the 2x multiplier, because it is better when you are not ganked, and the same if you are ganked.

(for 3x and 4x multiplier it is even more pronounced)

There is no increased risk with a higher multiplier aside from the larger flat number of stones lost. If the loss rate was 20-25% and was multiplied by whatever multiplier you had active then it would be risk vs reward and people who don't want to risk much could just stay at low values fine.

If the loss was 25% multiplied by the stone multiplier, like you say, there would be no reason not to use 2x.

With 1x, you would be losing 50% of your stones, always (as you gather them).
With 2x, you would lose 50% of your stones, but not always, only when ganked. So why stay with 1x(and a guaranteed 50% loss) when you can go 2x (and only lose 50% in case of a gank)?

I mean, if you only have 1x you will only loose 20-25% of the stones so low risk low reward, 2x would loose 40-50%, 3x would loose 60-75% and 4x would loose 80-100%. Thats what I mean, isn't that risk reward?

you´ll need to make it dependant on the survivors multiplyer, if he has the 4x multiplyer he´ll recieve 100% of your stones 75% at 3x, 50% at 2x and so on... that then is a risk vs reward
personly i would go even one step further and make the TVS of the survivor = the max lootable TVS from the corpse

Selique

Xendyn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Selique wrote: »

I like it the way it is. I don't think it needs changing. Use tactics, and bank often.

You mean zerg?

No, like this
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212691/l2p-imperial-city-like-a-boss-tips-and-tricks

Precisely. Like that.

byrom101b16_ESO

@Freeman et al.

There is no skill in zerging a good group, nor lack of skill on losing so many of your stones to a surprise attack on a hard boss, or any other sizeable groups of mobs.

It is the kind of rubbish claimed by the likes of you, that skill will keep you your stones. It won't help you when you are suddenly outnumbered and already engaged with mobs, and the type of people who think the complainers here are all whining noobs need to accept this truth or stop posting their bull squirt excuses.

LegacyDM

Coral66 wrote: »

i agree with jluce, if not get rid of it, at least put it at 50% losses.. just wasted 2h of gaming 'cause of lovelly enemy party camping in front of the faction's safe area's door.. i could have more fun watching a movie in those 2 hours

p.s. sadly sneaking is pretty useless in sewers.. ;(

Man. Whatever happened to the days of losing XP and your character going negative XP when you died. Now those were the days. Now people raging on losing worthless stones.

CP5

Tankqull wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Svartulv wrote: »

Completely agree that 80% of loosing the stones is too much.
I earned about 300 stones according to achievements, but I have only ~60 of them really, and I'm not happy with it.

Yes, if you alone/in a small group, it's not a problem to avoid zergs but sometimes you can't really react on sudden attacks and you loose almost all the stones. This definitely should be changed, at least to loosing only 50% of stones.

The reason why you cannot only lose 50% of stones is that it would make the risk/reward system of stone multiplier not work. The system is supposed to reward you if you are willing to risk losing more to a gank(by carrying more stones on you), by gain more from farming.

Think about it. If you do not use a 2x multiplier, you are willingly losing 50% of the stones you could have otherwise. Gain 100 stones, and you basically lost another 100 due to playing it safe.

If you instead went for 2x multiplier(by carrying more stones on you), you are risking getting ganked and losing the same 50% of stones. So no difference.

However, you do not always get ganked, which makes the second option a no-brainer. Everyone would always use the 2x multiplier, because it is better when you are not ganked, and the same if you are ganked.

(for 3x and 4x multiplier it is even more pronounced)

There is no increased risk with a higher multiplier aside from the larger flat number of stones lost. If the loss rate was 20-25% and was multiplied by whatever multiplier you had active then it would be risk vs reward and people who don't want to risk much could just stay at low values fine.

If the loss was 25% multiplied by the stone multiplier, like you say, there would be no reason not to use 2x.

With 1x, you would be losing 50% of your stones, always (as you gather them).
With 2x, you would lose 50% of your stones, but not always, only when ganked. So why stay with 1x(and a guaranteed 50% loss) when you can go 2x (and only lose 50% in case of a gank)?

I mean, if you only have 1x you will only loose 20-25% of the stones so low risk low reward, 2x would loose 40-50%, 3x would loose 60-75% and 4x would loose 80-100%. Thats what I mean, isn't that risk reward?

you´ll need to make it dependant on the survivors multiplyer, if he has the 4x multiplyer he´ll recieve 100% of your stones 75% at 3x, 50% at 2x and so on... that then is a risk vs reward
personly i would go even one step further and make the TVS of the survivor = the max lootable TVS from the corpse

So long as there is no way to make more stones from this (like I have 100 you kill me and get 110) then that would be a very nice fix.

Svartulv

Ok, yesterday I played in IC in a 24 people group - makes IC much more fun, however Tel Var system does not work anyway.
For now I can say that:

1) ~80% of people killed by your group do not have any stones at all, because they just don't have time to gather them between deaths, the rest 20% have just a couple of stones.
2) When running in a big group I had a feeling I don't care about Tel Var at all - and it seems as well as the rest of 23 people running with me.
3) Risk/reward - I did not notice it at all, why should you care about risk if you will defo loose 80% of your stones, regardless of group you are running with? Only time of your death depends.

So based on this, please reduce amount of stones being lost - 80% makes no sense to collect it at all. Change the logic of loosing stones and make it dependent on number of players attacked you. 1-2 against 10 is nothing you can do, as well as 5 against 20, etc. Make amount of stones lost dependent on multiplier. Loosing of 80% with 1x is not the same as loosing of 80% on 4x.

That's all, hope this was constructive.

R3DTHR3AT

TV system percentage rule is ok, no need to change it.

P3ZZL3

Here's something I came up with, in conjunction to the Spawn location "issues".

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2217667/#Comment_2217667