Let's do the skill point respec differently, shall we?

RizaHawkeye

I understand why the skill point reset is necessary. But seriously, forcing it on players screws up some skills like hirelings. Logging on today, I realize I'm not getting any hireling materials because, guess what? All my skill points got reset. And I'm one of those Type A people who runs their hirelings on a schedule. And this apart from the painful process of now fully respecing my characters.

Really, Zeni, there must be easier ways to do this (for the players, anyway). Give us free respecs for a week. Give us one free respec. Or as others have asked, just let us opt out of we don't want a reset. There are alternatives to this and I doubt any of them would require that much more work on your part than the forced, mandatory respec.

The current method just seems lazy.

MissBizz

Oh man... I knew I forgot something.

I quickly put my points back into researching.. totally forgot my hirelings.

[EDIT] On that note, I have taken their free respecs in this and a previous update to keep my skill points - as they were invested in the research passive. Update 6 I had completed woodworking so I didn't put them back in, and this time around I didn't put them into clothing research as I was done that)

RizaHawkeye

MissBizz wrote: »

Oh man... I knew I forgot something.

I quickly put my points back into researching.. totally forgot my hirelings.

And I did the opposite. I got in a hurry and forgot to put one of my character's my skill points into upper level crafting. Eggghh.

For the record, I'm trying not to be whiny child about this. There are bigger issues in the game, I suppose. But now I have to spend some time - an hour? - respecing my characters so Zeni doesn't have to spend the time giving us options.

Meh is how I feel about that.

Edit: @MissBizz : I'm not saying there shouldn't be a respec. Let's be clear on that. Just give us a little bit of an option on how it occurs - and let us manage the respec.

MissBizz

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Oh man... I knew I forgot something.

I quickly put my points back into researching.. totally forgot my hirelings.

And I did the opposite. I got in a hurry and forgot to put one of my character's my skill points into upper level crafting. Eggghh.

For the record, I'm trying not to be whiny child about this. There are bigger issues in the game, I suppose. But now I have to spend some time - an hour? - respecing my characters so Zeni doesn't have to spend the time giving us options.

Meh is how I feel about that.

Oh, I understand. Many folks are a bit disheartened they are forced into a full respect and wish it was optional. Or have like a free respect within a week of the update or something.

I now have a little tactic I use... I unlock every skill in all my class trees (along with max out the passives), then I go to weapons I use, same thing, unlock each skill, put in all passives, and get my passives from any guild trees I use/racial passives. I then read over the morphs of 4 skills, play with them, and slowly decide on morphs.

Makes for informed choices.. but doesn't make it quick at all Takes me a solid week before my main is usually fully skilled/morphed and can run dungeons. lol

Rikal

High on my list was putting points back into my crafts, one of my top priorities. Because I knew if I didn't do it right away I'd forget something and be mightily PO'd later.

Or as others have asked, just let us opt out of we don't want a reset

Lot's of people suggest this who I think are only looking at it from the player's perspective. Depending on what the class changes were, this may not be feasible from the devs perspective.

There are alternatives to this and I doubt any of them would require that much more work on your part than the forced, mandatory respec. The current method just seems lazy.

What alternatives? And on what basis are you judging how much work they would be to implement? I see a lot of people making statements like this and precious few details of what these "easy alternatives" are.

RizaHawkeye

Rikal wrote: »

High on my list was putting points back into my crafts, one of my top priorities. Because I knew if I didn't do it right away I'd forget something and be mightily PO'd later.

Or as others have asked, just let us opt out of we don't want a reset

Lot's of people suggest this who I think are only looking at it from the player's perspective. Depending on what the class changes were, this may not be feasible from the devs perspective.

Why would it not be feasible? In one logical instance, the skill points are all returned to the player. In another instance, they are not returned and the programmer has to do ... nothing. This is basic programming 101.

It may be more work to create an option, where the player has a choice. That option may effect other programming. I get that. But to say it's not feasible is - seriously - is ignoring some very basic coding features that every, single game today has.

There are alternatives to this and I doubt any of them would require that much more work on your part than the forced, mandatory respec. The current method just seems lazy.

Rikal wrote: »

What alternatives? And on what basis are you judging how much work they would be to implement? I see a lot of people making statements like this and precious few details of what these "easy alternatives" are.

Well, I outlined several above. (1) The player opt out. (2) The player could be given free respecs for a week. (3) The player could be allowed 1 free respec within a given time frame.

What am I basing it on? I'm basing it on Zeni's own statements that very first respec given in this game was a a free respec to everyone for week. I don't know the details, but I know that Zeni has managed respecs differently in the past.

Truth.

leepalmer95

I swear every time i respec i end up with more skill points than i started with.

Robbmrp

I wish there was an option to reset a single skill line. Then you could remove all of one class, world or crafting skill line. This would make it easy for people to respec from one craft to another and not have to waste gold on an entire respec. This would also work when they give us free respec's also. Let us choose what we want to redo!

Nestor

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

And I'm one of those Type A people who runs their hirelings on a schedule.

Two ways to put your hirelings back on schedule. Either assign the hireling points at the time of day you want the hireling mails to show up, or, skip a day of logging in to the hireling characters and log in at the time you want your hireling mails to show up.

MissBizz

I recall on a MUCH earlier big patch... they made respecs SUPER cheap. As in.. I'm pretty sure it was 1 gold per point. I think this would be considered pretty close to "optional" (because really, that's max, what 300 and some odd gold?)

Although maybe people didn't enjoy that, because many players may not know that MANY skills had changed. Lots of people don't keep up with outside news, so without the forced reset they probably would never even know something changed. (I spent a lot of time in game explaining glowing feet last night.. lol)

Nestor

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I swear every time i respec i end up with more skill points than i started with.

Me too. I put that down to some dumb skill point decisions I make along the way that are not worth respeccing an entire character to fix.

MaxBat

I'm not arguing with you, OP, and I can confirm that respect were handled differently back in the early days after release. But there was a reason they changed it up. Some people were saying they couldn't get to the shrine and actually wanted an auto-respec.

Zen can't make everyone happy.

DaveMoeDee

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

I understand why the skill point reset is necessary. But seriously, forcing it on players screws up some skills like hirelings. Logging on today, I realize I'm not getting any hireling materials because, guess what? All my skill points got reset. And I'm one of those Type A people who runs their hirelings on a schedule. And this apart from the painful process of now fully respecing my characters.

Really, Zeni, there must be easier ways to do this (for the players, anyway). Give us free respecs for a week. Give us one free respec. Or as others have asked, just let us opt out of we don't want a reset. There are alternatives to this and I doubt any of them would require that much more work on your part than the forced, mandatory respec.

The current method just seems lazy.

Yeah, 2 reasons to just give a free character-bound respec scroll when they do these changes:

1 - Wasted hirelings deliveries

2 - Give people a chance to try their old build with new rules

On #2, most players aren't arguing in forums over details of skills and balance. They haven't memorized each skill and what it does. I couldn't tell a minor buff from a major buff and I think a large percentage of players are the same way. The main way we evaluate skills is by trying them.

The problem with respec scrolls is that they would need to be character bound and place directly in inventories. People like me with 8 characters would get 8 scrolls. Most of my alts don't need a respec since they level 8-ish crafters that sometime do writs and only have like 20 skill points (cheap to respec). I would just save the scrolls to use on the characters with more skill points. Since trophies are often bound by not being bankable or tradable, the same should be done with these gratis respec scrolls to keep me from doing that.

Rune_Relic

I would prefer the option to "save build".... "load build"... "modify build"
ie. drop skills and passives...or...add skills and passive...or....just load a previous setup.

Malediktus

I hate the forced respec. I have 175 skillpoints at the moment. I dont care if a few skills become worse than before.

Rikal

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Rikal wrote: »

High on my list was putting points back into my crafts, one of my top priorities. Because I knew if I didn't do it right away I'd forget something and be mightily PO'd later.

Or as others have asked, just let us opt out of we don't want a reset

Lot's of people suggest this who I think are only looking at it from the player's perspective. Depending on what the class changes were, this may not be feasible from the devs perspective.

Why would it not be feasible? In one logical instance, the skill points are all returned to the player. In another instance, they are not returned and the programmer has to do ... nothing. This is basic programming 101.

It may be more work to create an option, where the player has a choice. That option may effect other programming. I get that. But to say it's not feasible is - seriously - is ignoring some very basic coding features that every, single game today has.

There are alternatives to this and I doubt any of them would require that much more work on your part than the forced, mandatory respec. The current method just seems lazy.

Rikal wrote: »

What alternatives? And on what basis are you judging how much work they would be to implement? I see a lot of people making statements like this and precious few details of what these "easy alternatives" are.

Well, I outlined several above. (1) The player opt out. (2) The player could be given free respecs for a week. (3) The player could be allowed 1 free respec within a given time frame.

What am I basing it on? I'm basing it on Zeni's own statements that very first respec given in this game was a a free respec to everyone for week. I don't know the details, but I know that Zeni has managed respecs differently in the past.

Truth.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Your main point is about when/how the respec(s) are executed. I thought this was another thread that wanted devs to somehow map their old build into a viable new build for them so they have to do nothing. Devs could probably just leave the skill points mapped as is based on UI position and let the player choose when to respec. Maybe give players 2 scrolls (2 respecs) or something. If someone chooses to not respec at all their build may be weak but that'd be their choice.

Foolish_Mortal

Ok, bear with me here: imagine some sort of "mail system." Like email, I guess? We could call it "Eldermail".

It could be used by devs and other players to send you notes and updates. With special programming magic, they could even include attachments!

That would be really cool.

Then imagine there was a scroll that could be used to do a skill respec at your leisure!

So if a big update came out and the devs felt like you deserved to change your character skills, then devs could send you scrolls! Through Eldermail! As an attachment!

Whoa.

Well, maybe one day these things will exist. Maybe.

Rikal

Foolish_Mortal wrote: »

Ok, bear with me here: imagine some sort of "mail system." Like email, I guess? We could call it "Eldermail".

It could be used by devs and other players to send you notes and updates. With special programming magic, they could even include attachments!

That would be really cool.

Then imagine there was a scroll that could be used to do a skill respec at your leisure!

So if a big update came out and the devs felt like you deserved to change your character skills, then devs could send you scrolls! Through Eldermail! As an attachment!

Whoa.

Well, maybe one day these things will exist. Maybe.

+10 sarcasm
So they could send everyone the currently existing respec scrolls through the currently existing mail system. I have seen the light!

UrQuan

MissBizz wrote: »

I recall on a MUCH earlier big patch... they made respecs SUPER cheap. As in.. I'm pretty sure it was 1 gold per point. I think this would be considered pretty close to "optional" (because really, that's max, what 300 and some odd gold?)

I vastly preferred this method to the current "all of your skill points are forcibly reset".

Even though I had used an addon to export profiles for all of my characters showing me where my skill points were, it still took me all of last night to re-assign everything for all my characters, so I didn't get to play at all yesterday. And of course, during the re-assigning process I made a few mistakes here and there because it was such a pain and I was trying to get through it more quickly. And forget about actually trying to take the time to read what skills changed - if I were to do that it would take much much longer for me to get up and playing again (not that I didn't already know most of the changes from PTS anyway, but still).

Oh, and as it is I'm still not up and ready to start playing yet with all of my characters because I still haven't set up my bars properly. I've purchased the skills, but I haven't put the right skills on the right bars. Luckily Wykkyd's Outfitter does this automatically for me on the characters where I have set up skill bar profiles using that addon. I hadn't thought about that prior to the patch, but now I'm wishing I had set up profiles for all of my characters instead of just the couple of characters where I like to switch roles on the fly.

Nihili

Wow, one's day worth of hirelings is what you choose to compain about? Of the host of things out there, this is what pushes you over the edge?

I'm not sayin it ain't a good reason, but it aint a greeeat reason...

Merlin13KAGL

How about +/-, just like CP respecs?

Change only what you want, without guessing what your previous setup was, and commit when complete.

How hard would this be, honestly?

Timeetyo

Silly question - but what happens to in progress researches (console player with some 20+ day researches ticking) when this resets and I don't immediately put points back into those skills?

NewBlacksmurf

I think it'd be better to have a cost free respect vs resetting automatically. Especially because champion PTS are never reset

RizaHawkeye

Nihili wrote: »

Wow, one's day worth of hirelings is what you choose to compain about? Of the host of things out there, this is what pushes you over the edge?

I'm not sayin it ain't a good reason, but it aint a greeeat reason...

And I'm not sayin you can't read but you clearly can't read wellll ...

RizaHawkeye

Rikal wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Rikal wrote: »

High on my list was putting points back into my crafts, one of my top priorities. Because I knew if I didn't do it right away I'd forget something and be mightily PO'd later.

Or as others have asked, just let us opt out of we don't want a reset

Lot's of people suggest this who I think are only looking at it from the player's perspective. Depending on what the class changes were, this may not be feasible from the devs perspective.

Why would it not be feasible? In one logical instance, the skill points are all returned to the player. In another instance, they are not returned and the programmer has to do ... nothing. This is basic programming 101.

It may be more work to create an option, where the player has a choice. That option may effect other programming. I get that. But to say it's not feasible is - seriously - is ignoring some very basic coding features that every, single game today has.

There are alternatives to this and I doubt any of them would require that much more work on your part than the forced, mandatory respec. The current method just seems lazy.

Rikal wrote: »

What alternatives? And on what basis are you judging how much work they would be to implement? I see a lot of people making statements like this and precious few details of what these "easy alternatives" are.

Well, I outlined several above. (1) The player opt out. (2) The player could be given free respecs for a week. (3) The player could be allowed 1 free respec within a given time frame.

What am I basing it on? I'm basing it on Zeni's own statements that very first respec given in this game was a a free respec to everyone for week. I don't know the details, but I know that Zeni has managed respecs differently in the past.

Truth.

Sorry, I misunderstood. Your main point is about when/how the respec(s) are executed. I thought this was another thread that wanted devs to somehow map their old build into a viable new build for them so they have to do nothing. Devs could probably just leave the skill points mapped as is based on UI position and let the player choose when to respec. Maybe give players 2 scrolls (2 respecs) or something. If someone chooses to not respec at all their build may be weak but that'd be their choice.

And I'm okay with this.

UrQuan

Timeetyo wrote: »

Silly question - but what happens to in progress researches (console player with some 20+ day researches ticking) when this resets and I don't immediately put points back into those skills?

It pauses where it is until such a time as you put the points back in.

AshTal

yeah just make the respec cost 1 gold or give us all a scroll. I tried to setup 5 chars and picked a load of wrong morphs - its so annoying I didn't even want to change any skills

mrskinskull

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

I understand why the skill point reset is necessary. But seriously, forcing it on players screws up some skills like hirelings. Logging on today, I realize I'm not getting any hireling materials because, guess what? All my skill points got reset. And I'm one of those Type A people who runs their hirelings on a schedule. And this apart from the painful process of now fully respecing my characters.

Really, Zeni, there must be easier ways to do this (for the players, anyway). Give us free respecs for a week. Give us one free respec. Or as others have asked, just let us opt out of we don't want a reset. There are alternatives to this and I doubt any of them would require that much more work on your part than the forced, mandatory respec.

The current method just seems lazy.

I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of the respec.

Merlin13KAGL

Timeetyo wrote: »

Silly question - but what happens to in progress researches (console player with some 20+ day researches ticking) when this resets and I don't immediately put points back into those skills?

@Timeetyo , on PC, mine kept ticking away, since you had already begun the research, but you would not be able to research anything new until all 2 (or 3) had completed, unless you put points back in.

Also, without points in the time reduction, the timers returned to their normal full values. (An interesting side effect of this, is if you wait long enough and then put points back in, you may end up with instant "Research Completed" on the appropriate item.)

It may not function this way on console, though.

RizaHawkeye

Foolish_Mortal wrote: »

Ok, bear with me here: imagine some sort of "mail system." Like email, I guess? We could call it "Eldermail".

It could be used by devs and other players to send you notes and updates. With special programming magic, they could even include attachments!

That would be really cool.

Then imagine there was a scroll that could be used to do a skill respec at your leisure!

So if a big update came out and the devs felt like you deserved to change your character skills, then devs could send you scrolls! Through Eldermail! As an attachment!

Whoa.

Well, maybe one day these things will exist. Maybe.

Dare to dream.