Maintenance for the week of June 17:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – June 17, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) – 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – June 17, 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
· Xbox One: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – June 19, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
· PlayStation®4: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – June 19, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) – 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

Difficulty of new crafting styles

Rikal
Rikal
✭✭✭
So from the devs perspective, why make Xivkyn and Glass so hard to craft? I don't think it should be too easy, but are there good reasons for it to be this hard?
Rikal on NA-PC (aka Rhaulikko)
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If this was still a subscription based game for everyone I could understand the length of time requirement for it. But since it's not, I've wondered this myself.....
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Because after Imperial City has been out for a month or so, these styles will be introduced into the Crown Store. I've already datamined the pics for the motifs as they will appear in the store. I'm guessing they made it difficult to complete these new motifs through gameplay, and are hoping that players will give up trying and just go ahead and buy them.

    If that's the intent they should just put them in there now. Those that are going to buy them will do so anyway regardless of when they are there. Do it and get it over with....
    NA Server - Kildair
  • Paulington
    Paulington
    Community Ambassador
    I am at a loss with this too.

    See, I could understand if it was just a case of making the grinds incredibly long so people are more likely to buy the motifs with Crowns. However the motifs are not in the Crown Store and don't seem to be being added any time soon. If ZOS really wanted us to buy the motifs, why not put them in at release? It is a convenience item after all (avoiding the grind) and purely cosmetic. Since they are not in the store, why are the grinds (Glass especially) so long?

    At any rate I can only say what I know, and that is because the motifs arent in the Crown Store (assuming 5,000 Crowns each) ZOS are losing 10,000 Crowns worth of business from me they would have had the moment I logged in.
    Edited by Paulington on August 31, 2015 8:55PM
  • Rikal
    Rikal
    ✭✭✭
    Because after Imperial City has been out for a month or so, these styles will be introduced into the Crown Store. I've already datamined the pics for the motifs as they will appear in the store. I'm guessing they made it difficult to complete these new motifs through gameplay, and are hoping that players will give up trying and just go ahead and buy them.

    Why wait then, why not sell it now? I'm thinking about 1-2 minutes of research on the web will tell most people whether they want to grind it themselves or just buy it;)

    Rikal on NA-PC (aka Rhaulikko)
  • Scyantific
    Scyantific
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They probably won't introduce them until like a month before Orsinium.

    They designed the grind to keep us busy until then.
    Chill Bros Chat Lounge
    Darkest Requiem
  • Teridaxus
    Teridaxus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I am currently getting a drop rate of 1:10 for glass motif page fragments (had 220 writ reward containers stored up). At 140 fragments required for the entire motif, at this rate I will have to do 1400 writs to earn enough fragments.

    I am considering just retiring from crafting as this is ludicrous.

    BTW I won't buy it on the crown store either, if it ever appears on the crown store this is clearly a case of make something SO outrageously difficult to obtain in game that if anyone wants to stand a chance of crafting it they will have to buy it - and I'm just not walking that path Zenimax. Stop messing with the core crafting mechanics in order to make a buck, and give us a good reason to sub. I actually feel as though I am being trolled right now.

    Got a 1:10 chance too on pts.

    Also related to this topic: We know from data miners that the next 3 motifs will done in the same way.
    Those are akaviri, mercenary ( undauted ) and yokudan.



  • Rikal
    Rikal
    ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the input everyone. I think I'm starting to get the complete picture. Big decision for me Nov 1st (when my sub is up) whether to move on to something else. Not looking good at this point if the choice for new crafting patterns is going to be ludicrous grind in game vs. massive gouge in the crown store.

    If I had fair and equal access to the economy maybe I'd just make gold and buy the patterns, but fair and equal treatment of all customers does not seem to be something ZOS is the slightest bit interested in.
    Rikal on NA-PC (aka Rhaulikko)
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    What I am still trying to wrap my head around is why you only get 1 material from deconing VR15 and 16 gear and why crafted VR16 gear cost like 150 materials. ZOS for the last bloody time crafting was never OP so as you guys said the "best gear in the game" shouldn't cost this much material. Now please give us more from decons and make vr16 gear more reasonable cost.
    "A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage."
    "It's the warrior not the weapon that decides the battle ."
    #StopOneTamriel
  • Xendyn
    Xendyn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I also want to say that I have always been supportive of the idea that "as long as you can acquire something in game" - but acquisition of something so tedious, based purely on RNG, with a low drop rate, and so many pieces required to learn something - No.
    I wouldn't mind if I had to work, or be really good at something, in order to earn it. But this is just busywork - and the drop rate is so low, that it's not even busywork with a good chance of being rewarded.
    I'm usually supportive of most stuff and I am fairly easy going, but this is going too far.
    This and the malachite shards and the number of mats required to make VR16 gear has completely steam-rollered over every crafter in the game.

    This^
    It looks entirely like a cash grab from here. Putting the bean-counters ahead of the gameplay is never a good idea.
    You haven't got too many straws left for this camel's back ZOS.
    Lag is ruinin' my 'mershun!
    A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
    There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance - Socrates
    Member of the Old Guard, keepers of the game's history

    PC/NA
  • Jayne_Doe
    Jayne_Doe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I am currently getting a drop rate of 1:10 for glass motif page fragments (had 220 writ reward containers stored up). At 140 fragments required for the entire motif, at this rate I will have to do 1400 writs to earn enough fragments.

    I am considering just retiring from crafting as this is ludicrous.

    BTW I won't buy it on the crown store either, if it ever appears on the crown store this is clearly a case of make something SO outrageously difficult to obtain in game that if anyone wants to stand a chance of crafting it they will have to buy it - and I'm just not walking that path Zenimax. Stop messing with the core crafting mechanics in order to make a buck, and give us a good reason to sub. I actually feel as though I am being trolled right now.

    Unless you're extremely lucky and manage to get a whole book from 10 fragments. Also, it will probably take a lot more than 140 since you're probably going to get duplicate chapters. Augh!
  • Jayne_Doe
    Jayne_Doe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    What I am still trying to wrap my head around is why you only get 1 material from deconing VR15 and 16 gear and why crafted VR16 gear cost like 150 materials. ZOS for the last bloody time crafting was never OP so as you guys said the "best gear in the game" shouldn't cost this much material. Now please give us more from decons and make vr16 gear more reasonable cost.

    Wait...is it 150 material for one piece of gear? That's insane!

    I was also dismayed to see that dropped gear is now at the same level of crafted gear. Yes, there's still an advantage to crafting your own gear as you can pick the traits you want, but the advantages of crafted gear vs. dropped decidedly less. Not sure why they're still concerned with making crafted foods and potions of better quality than dropped.
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Also related to this topic: We know from data miners that the next 3 motifs will done in the same way.
    Those are akaviri, mercenary ( undauted ) and yokudan.

    Which is fine, because all I want from youkudan are those cool light boots.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (bosmer template) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • Scyantific
    Scyantific
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I am currently getting a drop rate of 1:10 for glass motif page fragments (had 220 writ reward containers stored up). At 140 fragments required for the entire motif, at this rate I will have to do 1400 writs to earn enough fragments.

    I am considering just retiring from crafting as this is ludicrous.

    BTW I won't buy it on the crown store either, if it ever appears on the crown store this is clearly a case of make something SO outrageously difficult to obtain in game that if anyone wants to stand a chance of crafting it they will have to buy it - and I'm just not walking that path Zenimax. Stop messing with the core crafting mechanics in order to make a buck, and give us a good reason to sub. I actually feel as though I am being trolled right now.

    Unless you're extremely lucky and manage to get a whole book from 10 fragments. Also, it will probably take a lot more than 140 since you're probably going to get duplicate chapters. Augh!

    At that point you start trading them for chapters you need.
    Chill Bros Chat Lounge
    Darkest Requiem
  • Ourorboros
    Ourorboros
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    On the one hand, making the new motifs super hard to learn in-game would be good for crafting economy. The new motifs would fetch a high price since very few will have both the luck and dedication to get them. But selling them in the crown store removes any incentive to do the work needed for the new motifs. Up to today, I was completely maxed in crafting. But the new look is NOT worth the work needed for what are really 'vanity' items. If I find them, I find them, but no grinding for me. I haven't changed my VR14 main appearance in months. I can play the game just fine without the headache of grinding for new looks.

    I won't be surprised when the new motifs are available in the crown store. I won't be buying them, either. This kind of action is just increasing my frustration with Zos, and driving me from the game. I doubt I ever sub again, and once that stops, only love of the game will keep me playing. But this crap eats away at that love. I'm thinking a lot about that new Star Wars game coming at the end of the year. :(
    PC/NA/DC
    Breton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
    TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
    ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)
  • Tyr
    Tyr
    ✭✭✭✭
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I am currently getting a drop rate of 1:10 for glass motif page fragments (had 220 writ reward containers stored up). At 140 fragments required for the entire motif, at this rate I will have to do 1400 writs to earn enough fragments.

    I am considering just retiring from crafting as this is ludicrous.

    BTW I won't buy it on the crown store either, if it ever appears on the crown store this is clearly a case of make something SO outrageously difficult to obtain in game that if anyone wants to stand a chance of crafting it they will have to buy it - and I'm just not walking that path Zenimax. Stop messing with the core crafting mechanics in order to make a buck, and give us a good reason to sub. I actually feel as though I am being trolled right now.

    It's really not as bad as it looks because there is already 3 more crafting styles datamined (Akaviri, Yokudan, Mercenary) that will come from the same 3 crafting writs. Right now the fragments drop at about 10% rate and you need 14 to make the whole set, so they are ~7 times harder to get than psijic ambrosia, but when there are 4 different motif fragments that can drop a few DLC's from now, it won't be that bad at all.

    They just haven't fleshed out the writ motifs yet, so it seems like a really low drop rate.
  • Tyr
    Tyr
    ✭✭✭✭
    Ourorboros wrote: »
    On the one hand, making the new motifs super hard to learn in-game would be good for crafting economy. The new motifs would fetch a high price since very few will have both the luck and dedication to get them. But selling them in the crown store removes any incentive to do the work needed for the new motifs. Up to today, I was completely maxed in crafting. But the new look is NOT worth the work needed for what are really 'vanity' items. If I find them, I find them, but no grinding for me. I haven't changed my VR14 main appearance in months. I can play the game just fine without the headache of grinding for new looks.

    I won't be surprised when the new motifs are available in the crown store. I won't be buying them, either. This kind of action is just increasing my frustration with Zos, and driving me from the game. I doubt I ever sub again, and once that stops, only love of the game will keep me playing. But this crap eats away at that love. I'm thinking a lot about that new Star Wars game coming at the end of the year. :(

    Lol Uprising will be Freemium garbage just like Commander, so it'll be like jumping out of the frying pan and itno the fire if you dump this game for Star Wars.
  • Tyr
    Tyr
    ✭✭✭✭
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I am currently getting a drop rate of 1:10 for glass motif page fragments (had 220 writ reward containers stored up). At 140 fragments required for the entire motif, at this rate I will have to do 1400 writs to earn enough fragments.

    I am considering just retiring from crafting as this is ludicrous.

    BTW I won't buy it on the crown store either, if it ever appears on the crown store this is clearly a case of make something SO outrageously difficult to obtain in game that if anyone wants to stand a chance of crafting it they will have to buy it - and I'm just not walking that path Zenimax. Stop messing with the core crafting mechanics in order to make a buck, and give us a good reason to sub. I actually feel as though I am being trolled right now.

    Got a 1:10 chance too on pts.

    Also related to this topic: We know from data miners that the next 3 motifs will done in the same way.
    Those are akaviri, mercenary ( undauted ) and yokudan.



    I didn't see this post before posting myself, but yes this is exactly right. We'll have a ~40% drop rate once all 4 of these motifs are in. The only downside will be that the fragements themselves aren't tradable, just the chapters.
  • Rikal
    Rikal
    ✭✭✭
    Tyr wrote: »
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I am currently getting a drop rate of 1:10 for glass motif page fragments (had 220 writ reward containers stored up). At 140 fragments required for the entire motif, at this rate I will have to do 1400 writs to earn enough fragments.

    I am considering just retiring from crafting as this is ludicrous.

    BTW I won't buy it on the crown store either, if it ever appears on the crown store this is clearly a case of make something SO outrageously difficult to obtain in game that if anyone wants to stand a chance of crafting it they will have to buy it - and I'm just not walking that path Zenimax. Stop messing with the core crafting mechanics in order to make a buck, and give us a good reason to sub. I actually feel as though I am being trolled right now.

    Got a 1:10 chance too on pts.

    Also related to this topic: We know from data miners that the next 3 motifs will done in the same way.
    Those are akaviri, mercenary ( undauted ) and yokudan.



    I didn't see this post before posting myself, but yes this is exactly right. We'll have a ~40% drop rate once all 4 of these motifs are in. The only downside will be that the fragements themselves aren't tradable, just the chapters.

    You know that the drop rate works that way or you're guessing?

    Rikal on NA-PC (aka Rhaulikko)
  • FloppyFrank
    FloppyFrank
    ✭✭✭
    they're just trying to make the grind s long and tedious as possible to hold over to Orisinium since they know they don't have enough actual content to keep players interested
    Xbone GT: x mech duck x
  • Ourorboros
    Ourorboros
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Tyr wrote: »
    Ourorboros wrote: »
    On the one hand, making the new motifs super hard to learn in-game would be good for crafting economy. The new motifs would fetch a high price since very few will have both the luck and dedication to get them. But selling them in the crown store removes any incentive to do the work needed for the new motifs. Up to today, I was completely maxed in crafting. But the new look is NOT worth the work needed for what are really 'vanity' items. If I find them, I find them, but no grinding for me. I haven't changed my VR14 main appearance in months. I can play the game just fine without the headache of grinding for new looks.

    I won't be surprised when the new motifs are available in the crown store. I won't be buying them, either. This kind of action is just increasing my frustration with Zos, and driving me from the game. I doubt I ever sub again, and once that stops, only love of the game will keep me playing. But this crap eats away at that love. I'm thinking a lot about that new Star Wars game coming at the end of the year. :(

    Lol Uprising will be Freemium garbage just like Commander, so it'll be like jumping out of the frying pan and itno the fire if you dump this game for Star Wars.
    Probably true, but at least we go into that game knowing this. When we started ESO, there were totally different expectations than the reality of the game today. That bitterness just won't go away easily for me.
    PC/NA/DC
    Breton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
    TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
    ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)
  • Ourorboros
    Ourorboros
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    they're just trying to make the grind s long and tedious as possible to hold over to Orisinium since they know they don't have enough actual content to keep players interested

    ^^^this implies that drop rates will improve when Orisinium lands. I have a hard time believing that will happen. If they didn't change anything after all the complaints during PTS testing, why would they change them with new DLC? Maybe they'll restructure the new motifs and crafting materials if they don't sell well in the crown store.
    PC/NA/DC
    Breton Sorcerer Maester.White - BB meets GoT >Master Crafter< { 9 Traits completed 4/23/15 }
    TANSTAAFL--->There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....Robert Heinlein
    Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea....Heinlein
    All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die. "Blade Runner"
    ESO: the game you hate to love and love to hate....( >_<) May RNG be with you (*,_,*)
  • LadyDestiny
    LadyDestiny
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    they're just trying to make the grind s long and tedious as possible to hold over to Orisinium since they know they don't have enough actual content to keep players interested

    With eight characters, all maxed chrafters, writs, farming and guild trading, I have more than enough to stay busy until Orsinium. Oh yeah and grinding out the rest of my characters along with pvp. They don't need to add in more tedious slow grind on stupid things like motifs. Researching, Dwemer pages, Perfect roe, nirncrux and now psyjic ambrosia fragments are enough.
    Edited by LadyDestiny on September 2, 2015 10:55AM
  • Tyr
    Tyr
    ✭✭✭✭
    Rikal wrote: »
    Tyr wrote: »
    Epona222 wrote: »
    I am currently getting a drop rate of 1:10 for glass motif page fragments (had 220 writ reward containers stored up). At 140 fragments required for the entire motif, at this rate I will have to do 1400 writs to earn enough fragments.

    I am considering just retiring from crafting as this is ludicrous.

    BTW I won't buy it on the crown store either, if it ever appears on the crown store this is clearly a case of make something SO outrageously difficult to obtain in game that if anyone wants to stand a chance of crafting it they will have to buy it - and I'm just not walking that path Zenimax. Stop messing with the core crafting mechanics in order to make a buck, and give us a good reason to sub. I actually feel as though I am being trolled right now.

    Got a 1:10 chance too on pts.

    Also related to this topic: We know from data miners that the next 3 motifs will done in the same way.
    Those are akaviri, mercenary ( undauted ) and yokudan.



    I didn't see this post before posting myself, but yes this is exactly right. We'll have a ~40% drop rate once all 4 of these motifs are in. The only downside will be that the fragements themselves aren't tradable, just the chapters.

    You know that the drop rate works that way or you're guessing?

    Well I don't know that it will be additive for certain, but from what I"ve seen in other cases unless they deliberately lower the drop rate of glass fragments when they add in the next motif it should work that way.

    When they added in a chance to get Psijic ambrosia fragments, they didn't reduce the amount of other items you got from the writs. I've still been getting the same average numbers of rare materials + Psijic fragments since they added it.

    i don't know for certain, of course, but it's an informed guess.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
    Community Ambassador
    Tyr wrote: »
    I've still been getting the same average numbers of rare materials + Psijic fragments since they added it.

    The reason for that is the Ambrosia Fragment shows up as an extra item in the Writ Container, it does not replace anything. If they follow the same method, then what we get currently should have no impact, and then we get a chance to get the new Style Material. However if they go the route of adding it to the loot table along with the other stuff, then it could be different. But also more difficult for them to tweak the mix and drop rate down the road.

    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"

  • Morimizo
    Morimizo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe they are holding out on adding these to the Crown Store so that folks have a chance of sporting their new look from in-game efforts, making them look all elite and stuff, prancing their awesomeness through Mournhold, "Check me out ladies, I'M wearing GLASSSSS!!"

    Once quite a few players are rocking the new motifs, they'll add it to the Crown Store.

    I give it 2 months. Despite this low RNG nonsense, nonfun, there are groups of guilds (Guild Clusters, like galaxies? lol), that will cooperate and pool their resources and have a fully specced crafter by Friday.

    For the solo crafter, this is madness. Personally not buying it from the CS either.

    Anything available in game will not be purchased in the Crown Store---otherwise, why bother playing?
    - Mission Statement.
  • f047ys3v3n
    f047ys3v3n
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obviously the incredibly rare drop rate for the new motifs is to incentivize buying them in the crown store. Frankly, I'm ok with this and even think it is a good idea to release new cosmetic items such as these motifs for a little bit in the non-crown world before the crown store so that people will try for them in-game long enough to build up enough desire to spring for them in crown store. I actually think that probably all crown cosmetic items should be this way as it also obscures the origin of items so people can buy them with crowns and than lie to their friends and say they got a lucky drop.

    I hope that all you guys burn with desire for all the crown stuff and buy it so that I will have a game to play for a long time. I also hope they buy better servers so that my load screens will not be 4 min and that they make better content and balance decisions. While I'm at it I hope to win the lottery as well as I would like one of my wishes to have a quantifiable chance of coming true. The new horse is cool though isn't it. It's not Arvak cool but it's pretty good.
    Yes I am deeply embarrassed to still be playing this game. I know better.
  • Robbmrp
    Robbmrp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Isn't it just the Glass Motif that has pages like Dwemer did? There is an actual book for Xivkyn that teaches the whole style. There is also a Glass book as well but no one has seen it yet on the NA Server.
    NA Server - Kildair
Sign In or Register to comment.