WB vs. SA and Master Bow enchant

Reeko

So i have done some research and came to the conclusion that Surprise Attacks does overall more dps than Wrecking Blow. But just the other day i came across a 2H/Bow stamina NB who really seemed to know what he was doing. I grouped up with him and ran the vet daily, hoping to pick his brain and theory craft NB mechanics/builds. Then i noticed he was using WB instead of SA. I asked him about it and he said WB does more damage. Well i know that but i was under the impression you could get off 2 SP for every 1 WB?

So which does overall more dps? Surprise Attacks or Wrecking Blow?

Bonus question:
Does the enchant on Master bow carry over when you swap weapons? Like, shoot poison injection then swap back to 2H, will you still get the effects of master enchant? I talked to him about this as well and he said he is 100% sure it does NOT. Said he has no reason to do DSA or vet DSA. I'm so confused now because i read several guides that said it will work.

Was i wrong in thinking this guy knew whats up? Or am i wrong in everything i have looked up? Please put my mind at ease!

LaughingJack

next time you might want to use words instead of acronyms - that way peeps may even read your post.

by the way, is "SP" supposed to relate to "Surprise Attacks"?

Xecil

I think this should be titled: "WB vs SA" but whatever.

Sneak Attack (SA) is nice in the it's instant and deals respectable damage.
Wrecking Blow (WB) is nice in that it deals high damage with a wind up time, and this is the key point here, it boosts the damage of your next attack by 20%

Combat in the game has 3 different layers:
Skill usage incurs a 1.3-ish second global cooldown (GCD). During this time, you can't use other skills
Light/Heavy attacks can be used during this GCD
Ultimate Attacks are usable whenever you activate them, they ignore the GCD.

WB activates the GCD as soon as you activate it, so after you land the attack, you're able to use another skill.

Spamming WB on it's own isn't going to be great for stamina efficiency in longer fights; however, so it's more efficient to weave medium/heavy attacks after WB to get back some stamina, and also to...

I forget the name of the passive in the Two-Handers skill line (I think it's Follow-Up Strikes), but it increases the damage of your next attack after a heavy attack by 10%. Nothing to scoff at. You get stamina and a damage boost.

So ideally for long fights, you'd open with a heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, 20% boosted heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, you get the drift. Bare in mind, you'd want to keep up your 20% weapon damage boost via Rally or Drain and whatever other boosts you want.

I don't want to math out the comparison of SA and WB, as I've been busting my ass with accounting homework tonight, but there is a solid difference just from the buffs from WB along with the damage per GCD for the ability.

Another thing to note is that all of this is based in a vacuum. The real factor to be completely aware of to compare dps is Time on Target (ToT). You aren't doing your rotation when you are dodging the fire. You aren't standing in the fire, are you? I haven't done much dungeon running in this game, as I'm still sub-30, but player skill with timing WB while dodging fire will have an impact on dps. For some people, SA might be better in that it's pretty much tard-proof to use.

Reeko

Thanks for the heads up on the title guys, did'nt realize i goofed that bad lol

Reeko

Xecil wrote: »

I think this should be titled: "WB vs SA" but whatever.

Sneak Attack (SA) is nice in the it's instant and deals respectable damage.
Wrecking Blow (WB) is nice in that it deals high damage with a wind up time, and this is the key point here, it boosts the damage of your next attack by 20%

Combat in the game has 3 different layers:
Skill usage incurs a 1.3-ish second global cooldown (GCD). During this time, you can't use other skills
Light/Heavy attacks can be used during this GCD
Ultimate Attacks are usable whenever you activate them, they ignore the GCD.

WB activates the GCD as soon as you activate it, so after you land the attack, you're able to use another skill.

Spamming WB on it's own isn't going to be great for stamina efficiency in longer fights; however, so it's more efficient to weave medium/heavy attacks after WB to get back some stamina, and also to...

I forget the name of the passive in the Two-Handers skill line (I think it's Follow-Up Strikes), but it increases the damage of your next attack after a heavy attack by 10%. Nothing to scoff at. You get stamina and a damage boost.

So ideally for long fights, you'd open with a heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, 20% boosted heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, you get the drift. Bare in mind, you'd want to keep up your 20% weapon damage boost via Rally or Drain and whatever other boosts you want.

I don't want to math out the comparison of SA and WB, as I've been busting my ass with accounting homework tonight, but there is a solid difference just from the buffs from WB along with the damage per GCD for the ability.

Another thing to note is that all of this is based in a vacuum. The real factor to be completely aware of to compare dps is Time on Target (ToT). You aren't doing your rotation when you are dodging the fire. You aren't standing in the fire, are you? I haven't done much dungeon running in this game, as I'm still sub-30, but player skill with timing WB while dodging fire will have an impact on dps. For some people, SA might be better in that it's pretty much tard-proof to use.

You have many good points about WB. But what about the extra crit from having SA slotted? And the armor/spell resist it debuff it gives? And again, the fact that you can virtually get 2 SA off in the time it takes for 1 WB?

leepalmer95

Reeko wrote: »

Xecil wrote: »

I think this should be titled: "WB vs SA" but whatever.

Sneak Attack (SA) is nice in the it's instant and deals respectable damage.
Wrecking Blow (WB) is nice in that it deals high damage with a wind up time, and this is the key point here, it boosts the damage of your next attack by 20%

Combat in the game has 3 different layers:
Skill usage incurs a 1.3-ish second global cooldown (GCD). During this time, you can't use other skills
Light/Heavy attacks can be used during this GCD
Ultimate Attacks are usable whenever you activate them, they ignore the GCD.

WB activates the GCD as soon as you activate it, so after you land the attack, you're able to use another skill.

Spamming WB on it's own isn't going to be great for stamina efficiency in longer fights; however, so it's more efficient to weave medium/heavy attacks after WB to get back some stamina, and also to...

I forget the name of the passive in the Two-Handers skill line (I think it's Follow-Up Strikes), but it increases the damage of your next attack after a heavy attack by 10%. Nothing to scoff at. You get stamina and a damage boost.

So ideally for long fights, you'd open with a heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, 20% boosted heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, you get the drift. Bare in mind, you'd want to keep up your 20% weapon damage boost via Rally or Drain and whatever other boosts you want.

I don't want to math out the comparison of SA and WB, as I've been busting my ass with accounting homework tonight, but there is a solid difference just from the buffs from WB along with the damage per GCD for the ability.

Another thing to note is that all of this is based in a vacuum. The real factor to be completely aware of to compare dps is Time on Target (ToT). You aren't doing your rotation when you are dodging the fire. You aren't standing in the fire, are you? I haven't done much dungeon running in this game, as I'm still sub-30, but player skill with timing WB while dodging fire will have an impact on dps. For some people, SA might be better in that it's pretty much tard-proof to use.

You have many good points about WB. But what about the extra crit from having SA slotted? And the armor/spell resist it debuff it gives? And again, the fact that you can virtually get 2 SA off in the time it takes for 1 WB?

Did you not read the about reply about global cooldown, you can weave a heavy attack into the wb, so much that you can cancel the wb animation ^^ also you'll have enough penetration for most bosses and there are other ways to debuff armor.

Also wb deals more dmg naturally then surprise attack. So the 10% wb + 20% heavy attack pretty much means you'll do more dmg and won't run out of stamina as your regaining it.

Were as Suprise attack spam will drain your resources.

Reeko

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

Xecil wrote: »

I think this should be titled: "WB vs SA" but whatever.

Sneak Attack (SA) is nice in the it's instant and deals respectable damage.
Wrecking Blow (WB) is nice in that it deals high damage with a wind up time, and this is the key point here, it boosts the damage of your next attack by 20%

Combat in the game has 3 different layers:
Skill usage incurs a 1.3-ish second global cooldown (GCD). During this time, you can't use other skills
Light/Heavy attacks can be used during this GCD
Ultimate Attacks are usable whenever you activate them, they ignore the GCD.

WB activates the GCD as soon as you activate it, so after you land the attack, you're able to use another skill.

Spamming WB on it's own isn't going to be great for stamina efficiency in longer fights; however, so it's more efficient to weave medium/heavy attacks after WB to get back some stamina, and also to...

I forget the name of the passive in the Two-Handers skill line (I think it's Follow-Up Strikes), but it increases the damage of your next attack after a heavy attack by 10%. Nothing to scoff at. You get stamina and a damage boost.

So ideally for long fights, you'd open with a heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, 20% boosted heavy attack, 10% boosted WB, you get the drift. Bare in mind, you'd want to keep up your 20% weapon damage boost via Rally or Drain and whatever other boosts you want.

I don't want to math out the comparison of SA and WB, as I've been busting my ass with accounting homework tonight, but there is a solid difference just from the buffs from WB along with the damage per GCD for the ability.

Another thing to note is that all of this is based in a vacuum. The real factor to be completely aware of to compare dps is Time on Target (ToT). You aren't doing your rotation when you are dodging the fire. You aren't standing in the fire, are you? I haven't done much dungeon running in this game, as I'm still sub-30, but player skill with timing WB while dodging fire will have an impact on dps. For some people, SA might be better in that it's pretty much tard-proof to use.

You have many good points about WB. But what about the extra crit from having SA slotted? And the armor/spell resist it debuff it gives? And again, the fact that you can virtually get 2 SA off in the time it takes for 1 WB?

Did you not read the about reply about global cooldown, you can weave a heavy attack into the wb, so much that you can cancel the wb animation ^^ also you'll have enough penetration for most bosses and there are other ways to debuff armor.

Also wb deals more dmg naturally then surprise attack. So the 10% wb + 20% heavy attack pretty much means you'll do more dmg and won't run out of stamina as your regaining it.

Were as Suprise attack spam will drain your resources.

Calm down i read it

Was just trying to deepen the disscusion. I see yourpoint though, thanks for the input! What about my question with the Master bow enchant effect?

Tankqull

WB does more dmg(per hit) in any slow paced fight with stupid enemys e.g. PvE
SA is a lot more reliable in a fast paced fight like PvP

Stannum

In PvP - SA. In PvE WB+full heavy loop sequence

Xecil

Reeko wrote: »

You have many good points about WB. But what about the extra crit from having SA slotted? And the armor/spell resist it debuff it gives? And again, the fact that you can virtually get 2 SA off in the time it takes for 1 WB?

SA is a Shadow ability, so no crit bonus. Extra health, but no crit. The armor debuff is nice, but in a dungeon group, hopefully your sword and board tank will keep Breach up, and if not, Reaper's Mark is also a great ability. Minor Zerk + Armor/SR lowering. As it's been said before, you won't get off 2 SA's off in the time that it takes to do WB + HA combo. I'm not saying SA is bad and doesn't have a place, it definitely deserves a spot on a skill bar, and it's especially handy on trash and other bursty situations, ie: WB > SA for a quick burst since the GCD will be up by the time WB finishes.

Reeko

Xecil wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

You have many good points about WB. But what about the extra crit from having SA slotted? And the armor/spell resist it debuff it gives? And again, the fact that you can virtually get 2 SA off in the time it takes for 1 WB?

SA is a Shadow ability, so no crit bonus. Extra health, but no crit. The armor debuff is nice, but in a dungeon group, hopefully your sword and board tank will keep Breach up, and if not, Reaper's Mark is also a great ability. Minor Zerk + Armor/SR lowering. As it's been said before, you won't get off 2 SA's off in the time that it takes to do WB + HA combo. I'm not saying SA is bad and doesn't have a place, it definitely deserves a spot on a skill bar, and it's especially handy on trash and other bursty situations, ie: WB > SA for a quick burst since the GCD will be up by the time WB finishes.

Thanks! Yeah i knew SA is shadow don't know why i said crit!

Xvorg

Xecil wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

You have many good points about WB. But what about the extra crit from having SA slotted? And the armor/spell resist it debuff it gives? And again, the fact that you can virtually get 2 SA off in the time it takes for 1 WB?

SA is a Shadow ability, so no crit bonus. Extra health, but no crit. The armor debuff is nice, but in a dungeon group, hopefully your sword and board tank will keep Breach up, and if not, Reaper's Mark is also a great ability. Minor Zerk + Armor/SR lowering. As it's been said before, you won't get off 2 SA's off in the time that it takes to do WB + HA combo. I'm not saying SA is bad and doesn't have a place, it definitely deserves a spot on a skill bar, and it's especially handy on trash and other bursty situations, ie: WB > SA for a quick burst since the GCD will be up by the time WB finishes.

SA is good in the combo sneak - cloak - SA from behind. My stam NB VR2 does 15k dmg while executing the movement as it has to be done using a bow as weapon. I suppose a DW car raise those numbers even higher.

Nevertheless, it is better using it in a combo with Ambush. My last combo includes focused aim + ambush + SA raising DMG over 25 K when properly executed (from stealth and from behind). And it takes the same timespan than a single WB

Reeko

Does anyone know if the enchant on Master Bow still applys after you swap weapons?

GreenSoup2HoT

Reeko wrote: »

Does anyone know if the enchant on Master Bow still applys after you swap weapons?

As long as your enemy is effected by poison arrow it will.

Reeko

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

Does anyone know if the enchant on Master Bow still applys after you swap weapons?

As long as your enemy is effected by poison arrow it will.

See that is what i thought but a few NB i know who have played the game more than me says otherwise. Plus they said they don't want to break the set bonus they have with thier current bow.