Getting rid of vet levels: Player Gain versus Loss...

CaptainObvious

There has long been talk about getting rid of the vet levels because they "take too long" to advance in. I got to thinking about what would happen, assuming game systems remain the same, if vet levels were just replaced by additional character levels.

The feeling of drag by vet levels is created by the change where instead of gaining ~6-14 levels in an area, a player gains ~1.5 effectively. Thus advancement feels like it slows down greatly.

Under the current system, experience and monster level are balanced for the vet zones and have been. (pre-flattening of vet experience v2 required 400k xp and scaled upwards, but still had a ~1.5 per area gain)

Assuming game systems remain the same and there is not a massive rebalance of monster levels versus player characters in all currently v1-13 areas (also assuming that level 51 takes the same amount of experience as the journey from v1 to v2). This assumes a 1:1 vet to character level trade to avoid rebalancing of areas. This assumes also that XP gain remains the same wrt vet and regular player levels where regular player levels give 0% if you are over 5 levels above monster level and vet levels give experience from 45-v14 (because a v14 is level 50 + 14 vet levels). Here is what players gain versus lose:

Gain:

Foul Hides, Carapaces, Gears, etc. will increase in value. They currently max out at 9 gold per. So they will probably scale up to 10 or 11.

Loss:

More zones will become useless faster. Currently, a v14 player receives experience from fighting monsters at cold harbour all the way to Craglorn. Under the v14 cap, this would change to only be the last 2 areas in Cadwell's Gold, Cyrodiil and Craglorn. Under v16, this would only cause XP gain in Cyrodiil and Craglorn. Assuming Orsinium raises cap to v18 per common speculation, then upper Craglorn and outer Cyrodiil become the last places that basic players can level. Increase cap to v20 and beyond a certain point, players will have to buy content to advance.

So, it appears to me that losing vet levels will:

- Drastically reduce the number of areas where players gain experience.
- Cluster all players in the same areas for any form of advancement.
- Push the game into pay for advancement once character levels have outstripped readily accessible areas.

But hey, there's 2 gold pieces as tradeoff...

NewBlacksmurf

I think you're looking at it all wrong. Replacing levels is a bad direction...keep it at 50 and keep it simple.
The only thing lost are the actual vet levels.

The skills, content and everything else stays. The only change if done logically are the vet level indicators on a NPC and a player. Understand the level 50 concept where all quests and such are level 50 in vet zones but the vet levels are adding stats and skills/health pools and manipulating how much eng is done/taken.

Removing them solves:
-PvP concerns (which is why they're battle leveling ppl up) so now it could be level 50's everywhere with or without CP's
-PvE where anyone can now play with anyone without cause an item or exp issue due to vet differences
-hopefully this also removes the silver n gold quests reatrictions to allow players of level 45+ who finished the main story to play all over the world
-Craglorn becomes a group PvE content zone instead of a grind to VR11 or complete silver n gold quests first (you already get access at Vet 1 )
-future dlc doesn't need a scale to level concept
-items and crafting become simplified as to not waist or level out of gear and items as 50 is now 50 vs VR1-14...16


The issue is:
How to work the higher items and mats into the current levels so maybe this requires redoing nodes and values from level 3-50. I truly hope the point of adding two more VR levels is to break items into even groups
So every 5 character levels is the progression of items, nodes, mats, gear, etc.

leepalmer95

Nothing wrong with vet levels, just people crying because they can't get a level every 20 mins and it actually takes time to level.

This is what happens when you make a game so easy you can do it naked, also when you cater to people who actually complain about pve on these forums.

TalonShina

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with vet levels, just people crying because they can't get a level every 20 mins and it actually takes time to level.

This is what happens when you make a game so easy you can do it naked, also when you cater to people who actually complain about pve on these forums.

I don't have vet yet finally have a character designed the way I want to actually want to get to vet levels my husband has two vets and i don't hear him complaining. to me the process is part of the game I don't get i need MAX LEVEL like yesterday mentality

rfennell_ESO

I like Veteran levels, I have no idea what the point of getting rid of them would be.

I can't be the only one, but it might be possible haha.

NewBlacksmurf

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with vet levels, just people crying because they can't get a level every 20 mins and it actually takes time to level.

This is what happens when you make a game so easy you can do it naked, also when you cater to people who actually complain about pve on these forums.

I actually passionately disagree. If you played closed BETA when vet was PvP then it makes sense to move vet completely out now vs to PvP only and the skills, ranks and stats would apply to champion levels .

Trying to mix the two intoPvE and PvP caused a major issue and the game changes as a result made the game as you reference too easy.

The original setup made sense.
Even at level 5-15 you would die a lot and finishing a regular dungeon was a big deal.

When they moved it to PvE and then also tried to create Vet dungeons and vet zones (silver n gold) it caused Nerf to be required.

I hope they remove VR and change the difficulty back to where it was in early -mid 2013 closed beta

xRAGEx

if vet levels get removed raise the level cap to 100

Sithisvoid

The system is fine the way it is people are just lazy, and lazy people should never succeed at anything. Want to succeed put in the effort.

Mojmir

Id actually like to see alliances removed outside cyrodiil, everyone can pve with everyone.vet ranks can stay or go,doesn't matter to me either way.just make up your mind ZOS.

RatedChaotic

Its that new generation mentality. Gimme max lvl now. I dont wanna grind. Kinda reminds me of that fat kid on the movie league of their own. ''Want some chocolate.'' gimme gimme gimme.

rfennell_ESO

The entire concept of dropping vr levels and having to retool everything is nonsense. Gonna do item levels on gear? Make level 50 mobs with ^^^ or ^^^^^ next to the 50?

Why they would even bother spending time on "fixing" something to only have to replace it in some way is pointless.

Jennifur_Vultee

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I hope they remove VR and change the difficulty back to where it was in early -mid 2013 closed beta

I personally see nothing wrong with veteran ranks a is and I hope they keep them fully intact.

As far as the game getter harder again don't count on it. I've played since the beta and I know it was more of a challenge in the beta/launch days and I've experienced all the nerfs. I've seen quests reworked and dumbed down so you no longer have to think about what to do...you just hit the numbers, get rewarded and move on. I also remember when they made the VR mobs tougher, so tough people were dying a lot and some liked the difficulty but most asked for it to be toned down a little. In the end Zenimax did what they typically do and made the VR mobs too easy again. If in todays game you reintroduced the level of difficulty the game had in the beta/launch everyone would scream its too hard because they can no longer face roll everything and easily grind out a level every 30 minutes. Then the nerfs would come in the next patch lowering the difficulty even more than it was. Zenimax can't seem to find balance in mob difficulty...they swing too hard for many then too easy for everyone just to cater to the people who just want to kill everything easily.

RizaHawkeye

I have a question about this: I'm about to hit level 50, but I'm nowhere near done with my faction (so not near the "endgame"). I'm an ESO subber and I've done most of the stuff, and I've done PVP ... so I'm over-leveled.

What happens when I hit 50? Do I just stop getting experience or what?

This is the big problem I'm experiencing with level 50 ...

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with vet levels, just people crying because they can't get a level every 20 mins and it actually takes time to level.

This is what happens when you make a game so easy you can do it naked, also when you cater to people who actually complain about pve on these forums.

I couldn't agree wit this more. On a challenge from a friend, I ran almost all the way to level 9 with no weapons and wearing nothing but soul shriven stuff. (But I was a templar.)

I've said this before: this game is way too freakin easy. Please, please give us some kind of a hardcore difficulty mode. Please.

CaptainObvious

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

What happens when I hit 50? Do I just stop getting experience or what?

This is the big problem I'm experiencing with level 50 ...

You will just start gaining vet experience when you hit 50. Monsters 45+ will give you experience.

Enteum

I wish they wouldn't get rid of Vet levels to be honest. I'm loving my time in game right now and just hit Vet 5 this moment.

The champion points are nice and all. But, it's great to see your character gain a level, right? If they just go the champion point route...that's going to put a downer on things for me, personally. I like ever increasing level caps with new story content.

Rikal

I have yet to see a "cap everything at 50" scheme that would not effectively squash any sense of character development/progression for many players. Being a fundamental element of the game (and major reason why people play it), squashing it would be "bad".

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO

One of my issues with the Vet ranks is not just that it takes a while, but that the only content I find enjoyable I really shouldn't be attempting until im V12+... So I feel like I have to rush through the levels because nothing is really fun until that point. Even the Vet dungeons are becoming a bore too from being so easy.

CaptainObvious

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I think you're looking at it all wrong. Replacing levels is a bad direction...keep it at 50 and keep it simple.
The only thing lost are the actual vet levels.

The skills, content and everything else stays. The only change if done logically are the vet level indicators on a NPC and a player. Understand the level 50 concept where all quests and such are level 50 in vet zones but the vet levels are adding stats and skills/health pools and manipulating how much eng is done/taken.

Removing them solves:
-PvP concerns (which is why they're battle leveling ppl up) so now it could be level 50's everywhere with or without CP's
-PvE where anyone can now play with anyone without cause an item or exp issue due to vet differences
-hopefully this also removes the silver n gold quests reatrictions to allow players of level 45+ who finished the main story to play all over the world
-Craglorn becomes a group PvE content zone instead of a grind to VR11 or complete silver n gold quests first (you already get access at Vet 1 )
-future dlc doesn't need a scale to level concept
-items and crafting become simplified as to not waist or level out of gear and items as 50 is now 50 vs VR1-14...16


The issue is:
How to work the higher items and mats into the current levels so maybe this requires redoing nodes and values from level 3-50. I truly hope the point of adding two more VR levels is to break items into even groups
So every 5 character levels is the progression of items, nodes, mats, gear, etc.

Yes, but you lose character advancement.

1. PvP could be fixed frankly by forcing Battle Leveling. They are already trying to fix that gap with adjustments to battle leveling.

2. PvE, can still play with other players. While there are situations where higher level players won't gain xp, group catch up will factor in with that as they currently do. Additionally, most of the quests are single shot anyways. By the time you get to the repeatables, then you are at the point where it doesn't matter.

3. AvA is the major factor for not crossing paths as I understand it. Unsure if they will adjust things to an "uneasy truce," especially when there is constant war in cyro.

4. Craglorn is already that.

5. If there is less in the way of advancement, then why have future content? Most of the existing quests are repeats already. Coming up with a massive amount of unique quests is hard. Pantsless Nord has the Shoeless Breton counterpart as an example.

6. Then there is more of a reason not to get new content. If anything new is not really any better than what you have, why do it?

There would be nothing to strive for/fight for. It would be, ride the rides once and then you've seen the theme park IMO or it would simply be flattened down to a multiplayer FPS.