How to fix cyrodiil performance and Zerg balling

_adhyffbjjjf12

I've recently taken a break from the game because I am tired of dealing with the lag in cyro and the Zerg balls that are impossible to fight against in small groups and I have a few (obvious?) suggestions that I believe would have a big impact, what do you think?

1. Remove aoe damage skills and effects. It's only useful when Zerg balling and it's poor game play anyway. This means Zerg balls can't roll around 1 shotting small groups so allows small groups to remain viable. This also Massively reduces processing on server.

2. Create a Zerg buster siege (e.g cannon). The key difference is that it has a very fast projectile and hits for a very high amount - say 40k. To counteract this lethality, it's hit rate increases based on how many people it hits, so if it hits 1 person it has say a 0% chance to hit, if it hits 15 it has a 100% chance to hit.

_adhyffbjjjf12

1 why do you. Need aoe, is I fun, does that fun outweigh the cost to gameplay.

2 Try reading again about the hit rate. it would not hit individuals or small groups and would Rout Zerg balls, so it's op against zergs, that's its job.

Leandor

Removing aoe in order to implement an aoe. Makes sense.

You are sticking different names on the same thing. It doesn't matter if it is called "Zerg Extinguisher Gun" or "proximity detonation" or "generic zergbuster skill 15".

AoE has its niches apart from zerg. The core difference is the removal of precise targeting, and that is useful in more than just a zerg environment. You want to remove those other applications to further what you perceive as "more fun". Others may see it completely different.

How does your gun differentiate who is "zerging" and who is not? What is the target circle size? If it is too small, the gun will never hit a sufficient number of players to be effective. If it is too large, you destroy the siege element, because with the siege limit in place you can't spread out indefinitely. Does it consider group size or will it be possible to defend everything by sending 10 low level spies that just run around and bunch up on every enemy gathering to allow this super gun to annihilate them?

How would you balance that for the defenders fighting inside inner keep? they don't have an option to spread out because of the walls.

If you pull ideas like those from somewhere, at least have the diligence to think about what actually happens if you throw something like this into the game as is.

Draxys

In keeping with the above formats, here are two things that need to happen that may help the situation :

1) bring the purge bug back
I know we all thought it was game breaking and annoying as hell, but now that there are literally zero viable ways to compete with groups significantly larger than yours, that bug needs to be brought back and made a legit feature. It gives smaller groups a chance to spread out the larger groups. It would also give wall of elements an actual use again after being nerfed into oblivion like tons of other stuff.

2) bring back dynamic ultimate gain
Yea yea, I know ultimates were a little out of hand up until 1.6. But all it needed was tweaking, we didn't need the awkward unrewarding system we have now. Stronger ultimate gain was what helped outnumbered groups compete with the big zergs.

Basically the point is, we need to stop buffing the large numbers and help the smaller groups deal with them. Then we might see a little less morphing from keep to keep with a 100 player swarm. But probably not.

ataggs

I don't think it is impossible to fight against a tightly grouped ball of players. The tools are already available, it just requires good timing and opportunity. That being said, I think folks who enjoy small group play should stick to small group objectives, taking on a zerg would probably get frustrating. But if you are a patient, well coordinated group, you can certainly have an impact on a larger group.

Reverb

I don't think you're suggestions are a good solution to zergballing. I'd actually like to see the removal of aoe caps, maybe even with an additional damage modifier for hitting more than 10 players at once. That would give smaller groups the ability to fight blobs.

Juraigr

Draxys wrote: »

In keeping with the above formats, here are two things that need to happen that may help the situation :

1) bring the purge bug back
I know we all thought it was game breaking and annoying as hell, but now that there are literally zero viable ways to compete with groups significantly larger than yours, that bug needs to be brought back and made a legit feature. It gives smaller groups a chance to spread out the larger groups. It would also give wall of elements an actual use again after being nerfed into oblivion like tons of other stuff.

2) bring back dynamic ultimate gain
Yea yea, I know ultimates were a little out of hand up until 1.6. But all it needed was tweaking, we didn't need the awkward unrewarding system we have now. Stronger ultimate gain was what helped outnumbered groups compete with the big zergs.

Basically the point is, we need to stop buffing the large numbers and help the smaller groups deal with them. Then we might see a little less morphing from keep to keep with a 100 player swarm. But probably not.

Wtb 1.4 mainly for he fire impulse look but 1.5 is fine

ataggs wrote: »

I don't think it is impossible to fight against a tightly grouped ball of players. The tools are already available, it just requires good timing and opportunity. That being said, I think folks who enjoy small group play should stick to small group objectives, taking on a zerg would probably get frustrating. But if you are a patient, well coordinated group, you can certainly have an impact on a larger group.

Small objectives don't exist only so many times you can get a group to take a resource before it gets boring or you get zerged to oblivion, morrowind and back

Mujuro

There's an incredibly simple, but controversial, solution to the lag: Implement friendly fire. Once you have friendly fire, no more zergballs. Period. Paragraph.

Asmael

New assault skill line skill, replacing Guard ('cause no one uses that anyway): Calamity

"Inflicts an un-purgeable disease that deals 5000 poison damage over 15 seconds and reduces healing received by 15%. Every friendly player next to an affected player also gets affected by Calamity, and the effect is refreshed on both players. Damage and healing reduction are increased by 10%* for every player affected upon refresh".

50 guys affected? That's a 30.000 poison damage and 90% healing reduction.

* Note that the % healing reduction is itself increased by a %, and not by points: 10% increase of 15% is 16.5%.

-

Ok, that'll never happen, but... Just thinking about it

Leandor

You know what we need? We need Corrupted Blood.

Draxys

Mujuro wrote: »

There's an incredibly simple, but controversial, solution to the lag: Implement friendly fire. Once you have friendly fire, no more zergballs. Period. Paragraph.

[snip] It may be a "solution" to lag but it's also a fantastic way to make the few people who are left finally quit.

[edited for baiting]

_adhyffbjjjf12

The example you have given is not an AoE issue, but a population imbalance issue. Even if they can only use single target attacks and have to spread out, you will die because you are outnumbered. They will still be able to gang up 2 on 1, which the majority of players will not survive, AoE or not.

Not true ive been in many amazing running battles where the smaller group has been outnumbered but because one side is not bunching up in a dpsing ball the smaller group can manouver to separate and attack sub groups within the bigger fight. Happens all the time when theres no zerg balling. we all know this, the only people who would defend this are people who enjoy zer-balling (note I'm not saying zerg)

There is no such thing as an even battle in a wvw environment that's what makes it fun.

Your "implementation issues" proposal basically say that the situations where zerg balling is most annoying (keep fights and flag turns) will not be resolved by your proposed solution because trying to do so would result in imbalances that are actually worse than the issue itself.

My proposal solves outside keeps and partially inside keeps. Addressing the zerg outside make it harder for the zerg ball to roll over the keep outer defences. Taking away dps aoe certainly does impact inside keeps - your confusing zerg ball tactics with e people being bunched together.

Bottom line 'zerg balls' are ruining the game on a number of fronts.

Daveheart

Asmael wrote: »

New assault skill line skill, replacing Guard ('cause no one uses that anyway): Calamity

"Inflicts an un-purgeable disease that deals 5000 poison damage over 15 seconds and reduces healing received by 15%. Every friendly player next to an affected player also gets affected by Calamity, and the effect is refreshed on both players. Damage and healing reduction are increased by 10%* for every player affected upon refresh".

50 guys affected? That's a 30.000 poison damage and 90% healing reduction.

* Note that the % healing reduction is itself increased by a %, and not by points: 10% increase of 15% is 16.5%.

-

Ok, that'll never happen, but... Just thinking about it

It's not exactly this, but you're essentially describing the poison DoT from trolls in Sanctum Ophidia. It's an ability that's already in the game, and with some adjustment could actually make a pretty useful zerbuster skill. The troll version is already unpurgeable. They'd just have to scale the damage so that it's more or less useless against groups of 6 or fewer. Also, it doesn't (to my knowledge) reduce healing received. It's really not the worst suggestion for an extra zerbuster skill.

_adhyffbjjjf12

^^ I agree as well, this would certainly work, although as someone else mentioned, consider inside keeps and building where people have to group up, so you need an approach that allows both. That's why I'm suggesting removing the aoe dps, its a solution that sorts the issues in 1 simple move - only the zergball farmers and the lag abusers lose out and only because they cannot zergball. Everyone else, we lose a couple skills on our bars that we can replace with dozens of others. and gain a much more interesting and dynamic battlefield where numbers and follow my leader does not beat all.

Talcyndl

Siege can't be purged (or only purged via a synergy).

Some skill that inflicts damage which scales based on number of friendly players within 'x' meters.

Mr_Nobody

Theres 1 simple way to fix zergballing.

#Remove/Rework purge.

Zergballs only work/exist because of Purge spamming.

ataggs

Mujuro wrote: »

There's an incredibly simple, but controversial, solution to the lag: Implement friendly fire. Once you have friendly fire, no more zergballs. Period. Paragraph.

Yikes! I hope you aren't in my faction.....

Grampa_Smurf

Mujuro wrote: »

There's an incredibly simple, but controversial, solution to the lag: Implement friendly fire. Once you have friendly fire, no more zergballs. Period. Paragraph.

Thinking about this and the only thought I had is if I really don't think I could help myself not to shoot certain players

iTzStevey

If you don't like zergs you may aswell sell the game and buy one that isnt zerg or gtfo, a game that is actually fun.

eliisra

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

1. Remove aoe damage skills and effects. It's only useful when Zerg balling and it's poor game play anyway. This means Zerg balls can't roll around 1 shotting small groups so allows small groups to remain viable. This also Massively reduces processing on server.

Good luck taking on bigger numbers without AoE bombing them. They will revive way faster than you can single target them down. Large scale combat would be a stalemate without AoE, with hordes of players never dying, hiding behind each other. Much of it due to clunky targeting system.

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

2. Create a Zerg buster siege (e.g cannon). The key difference is that it has a very fast projectile and hits for a very high amount - say 40k. To counteract this lethality, it's hit rate increases based on how many people it hits, so if it hits 1 person it has say a 0% chance to hit, if it hits 15 it has a 100% chance to hit.

So you want to be able to just one shot a dozen players standing on a flag trying to get their home keep back? Sounds like great and tactical PvP to you?

Best way to reducing zerging is hitting where it hurts, the currency gain. Not handing out some easy-mode one shot mechanic to bad players. If you run around with 2-3 spamming raids, you should get 0 AP and O Tel Var stones. That would force players to spread around the maps, instead of all clustering up at the same place.

pjwb16_ESO

Just bring Dynamic Ulti + Ground Oils back

_adhyffbjjjf12

To the point above re hitting a group of 12 at a flag with a powerful fast siege weapon, turn it on it's head and ask why is a siege weapon is so weak that people feel safe to simply huddle on a flag knowing siege won't destroy them. Siege takes time to setup and fire, a group should fear siege and not simply stand about whistling and spamming shields. Far far more realistic and fun gameplay is that siege weapons should be lethal and treated with respect, ensure the are is clear, quickly pounce on surge, then stand about at a flag doing nothing in an active battleground. Who in earth would think the former is more exciting?

To the point above about zerging, Zerging/unbalanced fights can be intense fun, the point was about Zerg balling/follow my leader. Another example, a group if about 30 spent 2 hours the other night running in a right circle around a farm fighting a small group of perhaps 10 who gad no chance, no tactics available. What's worse the Zerg group made no attempt to attack the keep, that's pretty damaging gameplay.

Lunamarie

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

To the point above re hitting a group of 12 at a flag with a powerful fast siege weapon, turn it on it's head and ask why is a siege weapon is so weak that people feel safe to simply huddle on a flag knowing siege won't destroy them. Siege takes time to setup and fire, a group should fear siege and not simply stand about whistling and spamming shields. Far far more realistic and fun gameplay is that siege weapons should be lethal and treated with respect, ensure the are is clear, quickly pounce on surge, then stand about at a flag doing nothing in an active battleground. Who in earth would think the former is more exciting?

To the point above about zerging, Zerging/unbalanced fights can be intense fun, the point was about Zerg balling/follow my leader. Another example, a group if about 30 spent 2 hours the other night running in a right circle around a farm fighting a small group of perhaps 10 who gad no chance, no tactics available. What's worse the Zerg group made no attempt to attack the keep, that's pretty damaging gameplay.

Siege already does a lot of damage already. Unless you're a dodgeball champion or something you will be hit by a siege at some point so, making it lethal is just overkill.

I mean you virtually carry a giant treb in your inventory, set it up without any assistance, and fire / reload it, I don't think people should refer to making gaming mechanics realistic, that's what real life is for =p.

TBois

I wish they implemented a cap on purge and barrier

_adhyffbjjjf12

Not to large groups ^^ (again bear in mind I'm targeting Zerg-balls specifically as the issue) that was the original suggestion a powerful fast projectile siege that scales based on the number hit per projectile.

At the moment you setup a siege, hit the group who simply shrugs the damage off - the then roll over to the 1800 ap siege weapon and destroy it, poIntless.

Paradox

Better solution... Make none of the changes that are coming in Imperial City. All of which destroy small group and solo play and make zergs even more powerful.

Iyas

Every alliance war skill need an aoe cap.

purge spamming -> no dmg
speed spamming -> no cc

such a ***

Mr_Nobody

Lets spam threads @ PTS Forum about Purge Nerf/Rework.

Stikato

How to fix lag in Cyrodiil?

Create new PvP area with better rewards and open access to all 24/7

Lag in Cyrodiil gone.

Next problem.. how to fix lag in Imperial City

_adhyffbjjjf12

Obviously that fixes nothing it just moves the problem to the next zone, but I'm guessing that's the point.