Guards need a nerf

Malediktus

Who thought it was a good idea to make every guard an immortal being? They should be killable like any other thing in the game - just give a larger bounty if someone sees you doing it. Especially there should be none of these immortal guards inside of buildings since you cannot use doors while combat (another bad idea).
Guards should be more powerful than the average bandit, but less powerful than bosses.

Oh and the bounty should be split between factions. If I steal something in another faction my own faction should celebrate it instead of hunting me, too.

Prof_Bawbag

Malediktus wrote: »

Who thought it was a good idea to make every guard an immortal being? They should be killable like any other thing in the game - just give a larger bounty if someone sees you doing it. Especially there should be none of these immortal guards inside of buildings since you cannot use doors while combat (another bad idea).
Guards should be more powerful than the average bandit, but less powerful than bosses.

No, because then, people would be killing all the npcs. I know the npcs respawn, but as things currently stand, not having to wait around for npcs to respawn is a good thing. Bad enough when you go into a building and have to wait on an npc to respawn. Fine the way they are imo.

Alucardo

They're not that hard to outrun. If it was impossible to get away it'd be another story, but as it stands it's absolutely fine.

Leandor

Yes, there is a noticeable consequence of having a high bounty you never intended to pay back. Deal with it.

Avenias

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Malediktus wrote: »

Who thought it was a good idea to make every guard an immortal being? They should be killable like any other thing in the game - just give a larger bounty if someone sees you doing it. Especially there should be none of these immortal guards inside of buildings since you cannot use doors while combat (another bad idea).
Guards should be more powerful than the average bandit, but less powerful than bosses.

No, because then, people would be killing all the npcs. I know the npcs respawn, but as things currently stand, not having to wait around for npcs to respawn is a good thing. Bad enough when you go into a building and have to wait on an npc to respawn. Fine the way they are imo.

Nah, if ur strong enough, u should be given the chance of being able to kill the guards.

Malediktus

I dont want to outrun them. I want to kill them. Why dont these immortal guards go and solve all the problems of Tamriel if they are that good? As it stands now they are just godmode cheaters.

Prof_Bawbag

It's not about being strong enough. I could handle the guards at lvl 5 and the only way I can't beat them is because, well, they're immortal and wear you down. Their attacks are really no different to other enemies you face. Would just be another thing for the people who don't move out of the towns to *** others off.

Add to that, they're really simple to evade too. Just makes having a bounty a pain. The way it should be.

Mighty_oakk

Malediktus wrote: »

Who thought it was a good idea to make every guard an immortal being? They should be killable like any other thing in the game - just give a larger bounty if someone sees you doing it. Especially there should be none of these immortal guards inside of buildings since you cannot use doors while combat (another bad idea).
Guards should be more powerful than the average bandit, but less powerful than bosses.

Oh and the bounty should be split between factions. If I steal something in another faction my own faction should celebrate it instead of hunting me, too.

If you could kill the guards getting a bounty is kind of pointless.

Prof_Bawbag

Something I would like to see. If a player gets an excessively high bounty, is to allow other players the option of getting bounty contracts to hunt them down.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

Malediktus wrote: »

I dont want to outrun them. I want to kill them. Why dont these immortal guards go and solve all the problems of Tamriel if they are that good? As it stands now they are just godmode cheaters.

Where's the lol button? The guards are ai programs, not players (yet). They are a program and can't exploit or godmod or cheat. If you don't want to face the guards, then don't do anything to get a bounty or if you do, then play smart. Just wait until the player enforcer of the justice system comes out. (Yes, I am hoping it does eventually)

So, if you are having a problem with the guards, then it is your own fault for being not only criminal scum but dumb criminal scum. If you want to steal, then pretend that you are the modern day DB Cooper. If you don't know the reference, look it up.

Malediktus

Mighty_oakk wrote: »

Malediktus wrote: »

Who thought it was a good idea to make every guard an immortal being? They should be killable like any other thing in the game - just give a larger bounty if someone sees you doing it. Especially there should be none of these immortal guards inside of buildings since you cannot use doors while combat (another bad idea).
Guards should be more powerful than the average bandit, but less powerful than bosses.

Oh and the bounty should be split between factions. If I steal something in another faction my own faction should celebrate it instead of hunting me, too.

If you could kill the guards getting a bounty is kind of pointless.

Bounty has other downsides such as many NPCs stop talking to you, so if you want to profit from guild traders you must get rid of your bounty anyway.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

It's not about being strong enough. I could handle the guards at lvl 5 and the only way I can't beat them is because, well, they're immortal and wear you down. Their attacks are really no different to other enemies you face. Would just be another thing for the people who don't move out of the towns to *** others off.

Add to that, they're really simple to evade too. Just makes having a bounty a pain. The way it should be.

Maybe the bounty system is just out of place for the game. You play some hero who overcomes all kind of enemies and then you are unable to kill an unnamed guard.
And maybe they shouldnt just give me a bounty just because I took a recipe or motif book out of a locker. They should be greatful that I am taking it after saving their town from being destroyed.

Lenikus

There was a thread about this, a number of threads really...

The consent was that One guard should be kill'able (tho' very strong and yes, you'd still need to be Vr14 in full gear to actually kill them (safely at least), however if you ever did so, they would be moar aggressive towards you, and your bounty would skyrocket each guard you murdered. *more aggressive being -> Never lose aggro. ever. So if you were spotted you were to either die, kill the guard again and bump your bounty a couple thousands up again, or try to escape with water / terrain and get oneshot'd by a silver bolt

Leandor

Malediktus wrote: »

You play some hero who overcomes all kind of enemies and then you are unable to kill an unnamed guard.

Actually, the player character is just the vessel focussing and channeling the powers of the (d)aedra opposing Molag Bal and the powers of 4 of the greatest heroes in Tamriel's history. Hence, he is named "vestige" - he himself is less than a whole.

Why would he be as powerful while committing crimes, thus losing the divine support?

Forestd16b14_ESO

How about guards stay immortal so towns and cities aren't empty cause there's a bunch of pyhcopaths playing ESO.

UrQuan

People who want the guards to be killable either don't understand the mentality that some griefers have, or are themselves griefers. If guards were killable (even if they were extremely difficult to kill - that would just make the griefers group up) there would be some folks running around completely depopulating the cities just to *** people off.

Once the second phase of the justice system (ie. player enforcers) is introduced it might become possible to make the guards killable, because other players will be able to react and put an end to any mass killing spree.

Malediktus

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

How about guards stay immortal so towns and cities aren't empty cause there's a bunch of pyhcopaths playing ESO.

The important NPCs are not attackable. There is literally no issue if people kill some NPCs which dont play any role in any quest and respawn just a few moments later. People would get bored quickly of killing decorative NPCs. And if they dont I also see no problem.

Leandor wrote: »

Malediktus wrote: »

You play some hero who overcomes all kind of enemies and then you are unable to kill an unnamed guard.

Actually, the player character is just the vessel focussing and channeling the powers of the (d)aedra opposing Molag Bal and the powers of 4 of the greatest heroes in Tamriel's history. Hence, he is named "vestige" - he himself is less than a whole.

Why would he be as powerful while committing crimes, thus losing the divine support?

He might have the blessing of some divine beings, but on his journey he becomes stronger through experience and also gains his soul back. It is laughable that after his long journey where the player kills thousands of opponents not have the power/experience/training to kill regular guards.

Mitchblue

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Malediktus wrote: »

I dont want to outrun them. I want to kill them. Why dont these immortal guards go and solve all the problems of Tamriel if they are that good? As it stands now they are just godmode cheaters.

Where's the lol button? The guards are ai programs, not players (yet). They are a program and can't exploit or godmod or cheat. If you don't want to face the guards, then don't do anything to get a bounty or if you do, then play smart. Just wait until the player enforcer of the justice system comes out. (Yes, I am hoping it does eventually)

So, if you are having a problem with the guards, then it is your own fault for being not only criminal scum but dumb criminal scum. If you want to steal, then pretend that you are the modern day DB Cooper. If you don't know the reference, look it up.

That would be cool. I could be a NB guard.

Zorrashi

The reason guards are immortal is because the devs don't want them to be killed. They know that whatever system they put in, players would find a way to both outsmart and potentially abuse the system. Guards are immortal and already people consider it relatively easy to run away from their limited AI.

For instance, if they decided to make guards killable, how exactly would their level and damage scale if at all? Should they make guards the same level as those intended to be in the zone (i.e guards in Auridon will be lvl 5-15 whereas guards in coldharbor will be lvls 45-50) or should all guards be VR 14 in stats all around the board? In either case there will be problems. Allow players to out level guards and you will have them clearing lower level towns en mass, but have guards at the maximum level and they effectively exclude 80 to 90% of the population from killing guards as a viable option because there is no way to beat them until they reach endgame.

One rather interesting idea was to make guards within your level (like 3 levels above or below you) killable while others were immortal. It was a idea I rather liked especially if the action came with no material reward other than an serverely increased bounty.

But the devs seem to feel that players already have a rather unprecedented advantage in the justice system that apparently warrants invincible guards to balance the scale in the system's favor. I say let the justice system continue with the way it is until they figure out the enforcer system out.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

It seems to me, many of the people who want guards nerfed are the same people who want killable children, cats and dogs. IMO, Guards should be able to Jesus Beam you to ashes at 50 yards if you're dumb to be caught stealing or commiting some other crime

starkerealm

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

It seems to me, many of the people who want guards nerfed are the same people who want killable children, cats and dogs. IMO, Guards should be able to Jesus Beam you to ashes at 50 yards if you're dumb to be caught stealing or commiting some other crime

But, they're all DKs...

vamp_emily

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Malediktus wrote: »

I dont want to outrun them. I want to kill them. Why dont these immortal guards go and solve all the problems of Tamriel if they are that good? As it stands now they are just godmode cheaters.

Where's the lol button? The guards are ai programs, not players (yet). They are a program and can't exploit or godmod or cheat. If you don't want to face the guards, then don't do anything to get a bounty or if you do, then play smart. Just wait until the player enforcer of the justice system comes out. (Yes, I am hoping it does eventually)

So, if you are having a problem with the guards, then it is your own fault for being not only criminal scum but dumb criminal scum. If you want to steal, then pretend that you are the modern day DB Cooper. If you don't know the reference, look it up.

My experience with guards was a little different. I was new and I was pushing buttons and shot a guard on accident. I repeatedly got beat up. I had no gold.

Then someone gave me some gold to pay my bounty. I was so happy, I walked over to the guard to pay my bounty only to find out the bounty went up and i still did not have enough gold an got beat up again!

I was so frustrated, I almost never played the game again.

Yes, I know there is an option, not sure the name of it, but it prevents you from killing innocent people. This options is set to no by default and anyone new to the game would never know this. I think they need to change the default for this option to yes.

However, yesterday I was showing my friend how to play the game, and guess what, the same thing happened to her. She got beat up by the guard. I had to sit back and giggle a bit, but i saved her and gave her plenty of gold to pay off her bounty.

My point is I am not a criminal scum or a dumb criminal scum. I don't like the word Nerf, but i don't like how the current system is.

Sleep

if you are attacked inside a building and want to get out, try entering a cyrodiil campaign. i was once attacked by the red king in a smalll room where he was found poisoned, then i teleported to cyrodiil. don't know if it works for guards or not

TheShadowScout

Personally I dislike the immortal guards myself, though I know people well enough to realize the thought behind it... if the guards were killable, some guild of jer... uhm... "ethically challenged players" would wipe out whole towns just to mess with everyone else.

Of course, I also would have preferred it if the guards were strong but beatable - and do the trick with numbers, beat one and two come after you, beat those two and four come after you, etc., bounty mounting all the way... but I guess... lag. If some guild takes it to extremes, and we know someone would.

What -would- be a good thing is having some alternate punishment between "that'll be 87 gold" and "off with their heads!". At least as choice... online time spent in the stocks? Or a prison isle public dungeon? Buut I guess that's a different topic...

Molag_Crow

If guards were to be nerfed then they deserve to wield a Wabbajack.

afgncaap7

You're kidding right? Half the laughs I get from this game are from watching people get steamrolled by guards.

Winterpsy

Guards are immortal to stop griefers. It's not about immersion, or ruining that.
It's a safety measure in an in game way.
Killable guards would cause ppl to farm guards for xp or simply turn every city into a messy battlefield.

I'd like though if we can exit buildings even if chased by a guard.

On a side note, if you are killed by a guard your bounty is gone, is it not?

icontested

Malediktus wrote: »

Who thought it was a good idea to make every guard an immortal being? They should be killable like any other thing in the game - just give a larger bounty if someone sees you doing it. Especially there should be none of these immortal guards inside of buildings since you cannot use doors while combat (another bad idea).
Guards should be more powerful than the average bandit, but less powerful than bosses.

Oh and the bounty should be split between factions. If I steal something in another faction my own faction should celebrate it instead of hunting me, too.

Ask not what needs to be nerfed, but what can be buffed. I think a VR14 should have the ability to kill guards. Would be cool to have a group of 10 VR14 players kill guards and the other players watching can loot some items for that brief moment of defeated guards.

ProfessorKittyhawk

Winterpsy wrote: »

On a side note, if you are killed by a guard your bounty is gone, is it not?

Only if you have enough gold on you to pay it off. No gold? You still have the bounty when you resurrect. If you don't have enough they take whatever you have, but you still have to pay whatever is left. That or let it deteriorate till it goes away.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

@Malediktus You have a point and many of us agree that you shouldn't be force to run away from the fight. You have killed a God and his Demon Armies, but it will never change their is no way to have player guards.

If guard were killable players would one shot them short of that they would just kill them and gang up on player do gooders. Turning PvE to PvP and forcing purely PvE players to never use the system as hiding your crimes from players with Det. pots would be hard enough but out running a player that never resets would keep low levels and new players from using the thief system.

That being the case with Killable guards. having unkillable Guards and Player guards would make the system equally pointless. You can't stand your ground or go on a killing spare cause other players don't like seeing dead bodies Quest NPCs can't be killed so you don't have to wait for NPCs to re spawn. So it all comes down to ZoS can't figure out how to make player guards not kill the point and other people's role playing matters more then our killing for fun. It sucks but play your way is only to tag line they don't really mean it.

trav2609rwb17_ESO

Winterpsy wrote: »

On a side note, if you are killed by a guard your bounty is gone, is it not?

Your bounty is only reduced if the guard can find money in your pockets. Also if you fight back while getting killed you bounty increases. Proves that lives are cheap and only gold talks.

Chaos_Deception

They could allow the Killing of Guards by Introducing a Bounty Hunter System.

Up to 3 Players can Opt in to Pursue the Guilty Player.

The Bounty Hunters get Buffed and have Appearance Polymorph.

Bounty Hunters are Immune to All Attacks. Except Stuns.

Bounty Hunters are Invisible to Innocent Players to Prevent Griefing.