Is rapid regeneration worth using?

XarxesTheScribe

The resto staff skill "rapid regeneration." It's a nice HoT, but I can't seem to justify taking up a slot for it on my Templar (or using the magicka on it) compared to other abilities. Should I keep this ability slotted?

Jumper45

No you should not. Resto staff abilities are mostly for the other classes not Templar.Only spell you need from resto staff as templar is Healing springs for select situations. MAYBE quick siphon for fun. Both should be on a 2nd bar anyways.

Francescolg

Use it when you play with "less well groups", that is players who drop in hp too often (tanks without good gear for example), or the ones who don't have sufficient hp, or the ones who refuse to use skills as Hardened Ward. For endbosses, advise players to use some armor shield or/and block, really depends on the boss.. so that they can survive the initial/special attack, or AEs.

Healing can be done in different ways:
- healing by buffs
- sustainable healing over tine (stamina heal, rapid regeneration, etc.)
- burst healing spam for 4ppl teams (get atronach mundus, 2k magicka regen, pvp skill passive, etc)
- spot healing (most boring, requires a group which likes to stick)

If you go for max spell dmg equip, you should consider how to save some magicka for the bad moments. For PvP you should get 25k+ HP and less points into spell dmg, as otherwise you won't survive.
I prefer to heal a little bit less (in numbers) but endlessly and with 2-2.5k magicka regen it works.

Skiserony

In good groups it shouldn't be that important, in lesser skilled groups it can be proofed really useful.

However, next patch with some certain sets it'll become a very interesting skill, so don't throw it off the table yet.

Jumper45

1 BOL will do what the hot can do over 16-20 or whatever. That being said whats the point unless the idea is to stack multi hots ( Like NB healer) If you want to use the fact its a hot vs instant it still doesnt matter because the hot would have done maybe 1-2 ticks by time u could have casted BOL. so what 1k HPS tops? vs maybe a 10-15k heal not including crits? Untill there is a change its useless in the math department. Honestly i think quick siphon would net u more HPS then the regen too. defently with aoes. Wasted slot. Aura could be giving you Regen. or you could have something else for some other utility effect. Its so overshadowed by BOL .

Skiserony

Jumper45 wrote: »

1 BOL will do what the hot can do over 16-20 or whatever. That being said whats the point unless the idea is to stack multi hots ( Like NB healer) If you want to use the fact its a hot vs instant it still doesnt matter because the hot would have done maybe 1-2 ticks by time u could have casted BOL. so what 1k HPS tops? vs maybe a 10-15k heal not including crits? Untill there is a change its useless in the math department. Honestly i think quick siphon would net u more HPS then the regen too. defently with aoes. Wasted slot. Aura could be giving you Regen. or you could have something else for some other utility effect. Its so overshadowed by BOL .

The meaning of Rapid Regen is that you put it on your group to prevent them from dying, in same cases a heal over 20s can be more effective than a 1s heal. The HoT basically keeps your health high, and combined with a burst heal kind of overpowered. Don't always rely on BoL, there are reasons enugh for you not being able to cast it on time. So as said above, it's prefered with a lesser skilled group. A skilled group that can play and synergize together very well, will be able to pull that of with ease. I'm talking here about high endgame content, not dungeons, they're too easy right now.

jthack2007ub17_ESO

Rapids is healing you don't have to keep doing. Its useful when there might be times you're getting knocked about with stuns/ccs etc. In those moments you're not able to actively heal, but your teammates are getting some. (Mutagen has that burst heal at low health). For me, I slot it (or mutagen) during RIlis fights always. In case I get bubbled into the sky at least there's some form of heals going on for my team.

Go with your play style though. If slotting another heal feels like a burden then it probably is. A comfy healer is a good healer.

Edit: Thought of this as I pressed send. A heal over time also helps mitigate damage as its coming. If someone's taking 1500 damage a sec, a heal tic of 500 means they are only really taking 1000 damage a sec (unless that 1500 is gonna murder them dead). This could mean less need for major burst heals. And also less hp bouncing in your team.

Jumper45

I cant agree on either point sadly yes thats the point of a HOT but at the same time the hp tick isnt enough to cover what a heal would in the time even stunned etc. AKA 500 on 20k hp is nothing. Unless u stack multi hots ofc. All this does is push you into over healing. The idea is to have the hp bars low enough to allow a crit heal to heal almost to full without going over. That is and always be your end goal. anything else is wasted. ( This added time etc could be pushed into dps which you will never have enough of ( There is no Over dps) That being said you are actually lowering your HPS if you use a hot if your BOL will cover it in 1 shot. ( No one if rarly was ever saved by 500 hp when the hp values are so high) You can use it for peace of mind if you want to -shrug- but like i said could be time spent casting a DOT.. Entropy.. Anything... This will be much more important when Purifying ritual gets the buff so BOL has +30% healing on all 3 targets. +30% then you count crits. you will be over healing. If magicka comes into play that too is time wasted when u could be finishing a heavy attack for magicka.

Hots only work like this if you stack a bunch AKA quick siphon,rapid,healing springs. But that is reserved for NB healers imho who should be the hot kings.

Youll have a few situations. 1 you are 1 shot. doesnt matter. 2. you can be 2 shot. but 500 hp isnt going to do anything. 3. 3shot. still 500 isnt going to do anything. 4. still thats 5k,5k,5k,5k 500 isnt going to do anything. keep going down the math till it hits a point where 500 is viable. Honestly there isnt. if you are that far down the line (if a mob hits that much every 1 seconds which is a normal GCD( sometimes 0.80 seconds) That means u wouldnt be healing for 4+ seconds. which i dont think will ever be the case unless distance is a issue. where you would lose time ( which isnt a issue for BOL) Its all Min/Maxing math crap. The difficulty curve isnt high enough to sit here and be like it will never ever ever have a use. but -shrug- honestly i wouldnt unless u are stacking hots or using shields ( so the hot fills the hp while the shield is in place) Know what i mean?

Entropy or aura or Backlash ( post DLC buff) are all better options as far as numbers go. Honestly the skill bars are too small to even consider it.

Once you start looking at Rune focus,harness magicka,BOL,Inner light etc etc you just wont have room for it vs other options.

mklundub17_ESO

I've found it useful for one thing and it's actually tanking. Bosses like the netch in Darkshade have so much healing aggro, I gain more AOE aggro in that fight by using a resto staff to feed me magicka for AOE DPS combined with HOT spamming.

Love_Chunks

@Jumper45 I agree and disagree with your assessment. You are correct in that skill slots are better reserved for other skills. I myself have had to drop rapid regen for other skills. Im not sure where you are getting the RR only ticks for 500. My RR crits for almost 2k and combine that with extended ritual which also crits for ~2k and you really dont have to use bol for the duration of those 2 skills. It also gives you a bit of insurance against being late on the bol cast when some one drops low while you are dpsing and it conserves magicka. Even if you're in a higly mobile battle, like nerien'eth, those RR ticks alone can keep some one from dying in 2 hits giving you time to cast a couple of bols. Think about it like this: everyone takes damage during the lich crystal phase bol only hits 3 people. That one RR tick means that unlucky person who didnt get the first bol will live through the flying skulls and catch the next bol.

Point im trying to make is RR isnt required but its more useful than you are making it out to be.

WyldfireWyrm

I feel like it's a great spell early on, but other spells do a better job and/or provide additional benefits after you unlock them later on. So take it if you plan to heal in the first 20-25 levels, but you should have better healing utility after those levels.

Jumper45

Love_Chunks wrote: »

@Jumper45 I agree and disagree with your assessment. You are correct in that skill slots are better reserved for other skills. I myself have had to drop rapid regen for other skills. Im not sure where you are getting the RR only ticks for 500. My RR crits for almost 2k and combine that with extended ritual which also crits for ~2k and you really dont have to use bol for the duration of those 2 skills. It also gives you a bit of insurance against being late on the bol cast when some one drops low while you are dpsing and it conserves magicka. Even if you're in a higly mobile battle, like nerien'eth, those RR ticks alone can keep some one from dying in 2 hits giving you time to cast a couple of bols. Think about it like this: everyone takes damage during the lich crystal phase bol only hits 3 people. That one RR tick means that unlucky person who didnt get the first bol will live through the flying skulls and catch the next bol.

Point im trying to make is RR isnt required but its more useful than you are making it out to be.

No it pretty much is like I said lol. 500 ticks was just an example. Think the normal lvled out vr1 ticks for about 1k which is still nothing. But like I said you're stacking hots so moot point. And I can't agree with your scenario. That would be a half tick between bols. Assuming ticks are 2s between as all other hots you would cast bol twice. ( u would need to cast RR twice as well to hit the targets. So that's 6 targets healed vs the 1 tick. And situations like that I can't agree on because you're spamming to cover during this part. Even if it was 1s ticks you would still cast a bol in the time it would take for 1 tick. Stacking on extended ritual for the hot also doesn't make sense if you're using it to bolster RR because you would get 30% increase from focused healing on the bol further spreading them from each other numbers wise.so all in all you can cast 2 bols before regen tickss. And counting crits is meh at best in this because all skills can crit in fact bol would benefit more from crits then hots. That being said the only benefit was stunning etc but RR alone isn't going to cover anyone with 20k hp or more. Not even really 15k which is the norm. It would take 30 seconds to RR to full without crits vs 1 and 1/5 bol cast over 2 seconds. Then us start falling into situations of people running out of hot circles aka lost HPS the only sure fire hots isquick siphon. RR and nb for now really. Assuming u arnt nb which is hot boss you have just quick siphon and RR for sure fire hots which isn't much vs bol. Math just doesn't add up for the slot. It's wasteful and almost useless in the moment. Remember u have to eat 2 gcds just to cover a grp of 4. That's 2 bols yes it's a fire and forget but once again. Over healing and better slots spent make the math coming out of RR look worse then me using a etch a sketch.the only time you will see anything come out of RR is when someone is not taking damage which is useless. Because if that were the case they would get tagged with bol and that would be the end of that story. Like I said unless u stack hots it's useless. Doesn't tick for enough to stand on its own. Just as an example for tou. Slot entropy and your bol will heal more then RR is gonna do ever.

If you think my theory is unsound just do the math.

XarxesTheScribe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

I feel like it's a great spell early on, but other spells do a better job and/or provide additional benefits after you unlock them later on. So take it if you plan to heal in the first 20-25 levels, but you should have better healing utility after those levels.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. As I mentioned, it's a nice HoT, but it doesn't seem worth the magicka cost. If people are taking enough hits that an instant won't suffice, as well as other buffs, then the restore rate for this doesn't seem like it will go very far.

I've just heard it mentioned a few times, but when looking at it in comparison to everything else, it ultimately just didn't seem worth the magicka.

jthack2007ub17_ESO

You can't really compare rapids to a burst heal. That's not its purpose. Adding a HoT isn't replacing the burst heals. Just adding to it. If its ticking at 2k hp per second, then its adding 2k hps to your current burst heal rotation. You're not using a regen to heal people from massive damage.

2k a tick can turn that 10k damage punch to a 8k damage punch (effectively). After your teammate eats that damage your burst heals only need to heal him for 8k, not 10k. All you had to do was cast it 10 seconds ago.

No, rapids isn't going to see your team through standing in red circles, but its going to overall improve your hps and lower the pressure you have in keeping people alive. If you are hitting 20k hps in a fight, and rapids ticks for 2k a second. It'll improve your healing by 10% by using it. That's better than having minor mending (for this situation). Remember, its suppose to compliment healing, not be a win all heal by itself.

So don't look at rapids as a X heals for Y magicka ability. Cause of course it'll lose out to burst heal abilities.

Jumper45

jthack2007ub17_ESO wrote: »

You can't really compare rapids to a burst heal. That's not its purpose. Adding a HoT isn't replacing the burst heals. Just adding to it. If its ticking at 2k hp per second, then its adding 2k hps to your current burst heal rotation. You're not using a regen to heal people from massive damage.

2k a tick can turn that 10k damage punch to a 8k damage punch (effectively). After your teammate eats that damage your burst heals only need to heal him for 8k, not 10k. All you had to do was cast it 10 seconds ago.

No, rapids isn't going to see your team through standing in red circles, but its going to overall improve your hps and lower the pressure you have in keeping people alive. If you are hitting 20k hps in a fight, and rapids ticks for 2k a second. It'll improve your healing by 10% by using it. That's better than having minor mending (for this situation). Remember, its suppose to compliment healing, not be a win all heal by itself.

So don't look at rapids as a X heals for Y magicka ability. Cause of course it'll lose out to burst heal abilities.

But then you can be pushing burst heals into over heal. Thats the general problem with the formula. It doesnt do anything but shift numbers from 1 ability into the other and the rest into nothing. Thats why its a wasted slot. Because now you are using 2 slots to complete the task of one. But like i said it depends if youre templar or NB. Hots are always less mana and do not crit for much at all. So its ok to stack hots. But if you have access to a burst and a hot but the hot is 10% of the burst and you have limited slots it becomes useless. If we had full skill bars it wouldnt be an issue. u would cast and go about your day because its fire and forget. Not the case here sadly. The slot could be filled with something else and be more efficient. Prime example is Entropy. It raises your spell power by 20% ( Thus your heals) Yes it can raise the hot as well but 20% on the burst defently a crit will heal more. If you go too far into healing more importantly hots in this you'll be pushing any and all crits into overhealing thus almost removing anything a crit offers you and then pushing anyone elses hots into over healings as well ( siphon tanks and the like) If the hp allows it . it is ALWAYS better to let the hp dip then heal because this will either cause your heal to put the person to 75% or so ( and they can still use their own) or crit and heal them to 95 or right on 100% or slightly over it ( less overhealing) Overhealing parsers will show exactly what im saying. when youre spitting out all these numbers and people are full its doing nothing. or lowering the effect of the heal AKA a 8k heal on only 3khp missing will have 5k overhealing thus in turn lowering the effect your heal has by 60%+ etc etc. The main problem with this whole thing is BOL isnt a single target heal. its a aoe. The best part about a hot is it can heal multiable people while you focus on one. AKA 8 HOTs ticking once will out heal a single burst heal on a person. Saying this BOL negates that situation which is probly the best form hots can take. The skill bar too small, combat is too quick and mana regen is too high to justify burst and hot synergy you either stack hots or you go burst. balancing both doesnt really work in your favor.

Long story short. There isnt room for it on the skill bar. Thus it is useless for a Templar. You would cast a BOL and close out the situation and go about your business. In a perfect world the hot would raise your hps. but it doesnt here. Entrophy alone raises your HPS more then the hot does. Whats stopping you from using hots and entrophy? nothing. But then something somewhere else is being taken away be it survival or something else which just adds more issues then takes away.

Its the Skill bar really. Not the situation of burst/hot synergy.

Flaminir

A lot of opinion on here...

Which is exactly what it is... opinion.

RR has a place on a bar in some situations, less so in others. And it depends on your healing style as well... the people you're playing with... the content you're doing. The only incorrect answer on this one is anybody saying a definitive 'This is Fantastic/Rubbish'.

On my Templar it mostly ticks for about 2k and I have a very specific way of using it when I do.

My Bar1 setup is purely healing, my Bar 2 setup is buffs & DPS (With BoL as an emergency heal).

At the start of a fight I can hit combat prayer to buff the group, hit rapid regen..... and then switch to the DPS bar..... I can then DPS away quite happily and rapid regen will take care of the majority of the healing for me whilst I can add to the group DPS, content in the knowledge that if there is a sudden 'Oh ***' moment that I have BoL on both bars so I can hit that.

A quick flip back to the heal bar to reapply combat prayer & RR every so often and I'm golden.

It works very very well in that kind of scenario.... mainly for 4 person dungeons.