Crit Values

tommyshelby

What is considered a good crit value? My stam nightblade is sitting at 49% weapon crit. I am V3. Would this be considered very high?

Dracane

It's more than the average crit value. I could reach around 65% crit if I really wanted to.
I've heared, Nightblades can have 80% or so ? Don't know if this is true.

Skiserony

Mostly you don't want to go higher than 50% crit, from that point on it's more effective to increase your critical strike damage instead of critical chance.

So yeah, it's considered 'high' or at least high enough.

Reeko

You want to be ATLEAST at 50% . Anything higher is good but not if your gimping yourself on weapon damage. And yes, once you reach that 50% threshold it would be better to get the Shadow mundus stone. Until then it is better to use the Warrior.

Jumper45

50-60% anything after will have diminishing returns.This is always the case in every game. after 60% you'll want to raise crit damage. In your entire life no matter what. after 60% of anything you'll have diminishing returns. If you are able to raise the amount the crit does it becomes the priority. 50% is just pure RNG. You'll want the extra 10% to give you an edge in the RNG department so it happens more often then naught.

arowz

My crit sits at 82% native, another 3% more whenever I use a shadow (or is it assasin?) ability thanks to the passive. Unless my character sheet isn't showing the true number, whenever I add 1% of crit from gear, it adds 1% to my sheet, so no diminishing returns noticed.

I'm using 5 piece hundings rage v2 and 4 piece ashen grip v2. My daggers are both purple with the precise trait. I also have the 30 CP 12% crit buff and run with the assassin ultimate, ambush and impale for the crit % passive boost. Then the DW passive gives me even more crit with daggers. Lastly, I have Evil Hunter slotted... that's how I'm hitting 82%.

Couple that with a 30% crit damage boost (CPs and the class passive), I hit like a truck... at Vet 5. With siphoning on, I have 1450 weapon damage. I throw on Rally and it goes above 1700.

Question: Why do I seem to do more damage when I light attack after an ambush (note, empower buff), then if I surprise attack after the ambush?

Otherwise, normal Vet 5 or below enemies die after ambush, light attack, surprise attack... 82% of the time. Other times they take an impale or hidden blade to the dome.

Jumper45

arowz wrote: »

My crit sits at 82% native, another 3% more whenever I use a shadow (or is it assasin?) ability thanks to the passive. Unless my character sheet isn't showing the true number, whenever I add 1% of crit from gear, it adds 1% to my sheet, so no diminishing returns noticed.

I'm using 5 piece hundings rage v2 and 4 piece ashen grip v2. My daggers are both purple with the precise trait. I also have the 30 CP 12% crit buff and run with the assassin ultimate, ambush and impale for the crit % passive boost. Then the DW passive gives me even more crit with daggers. Lastly, I have Evil Hunter slotted... that's how I'm hitting 82%.

Couple that with a 30% crit damage boost (CPs and the class passive), I hit like a truck... at Vet 5. With siphoning on, I have 1450 weapon damage. I throw on Rally and it goes above 1700.

Question: Why do I seem to do more damage when I light attack after an ambush (note, empower buff), then if I surprise attack after the ambush?

Otherwise, normal Vet 5 or below enemies die after ambush, light attack, surprise attack... 82% of the time. Other times they take an impale or hidden blade to the dome.

You arnt going to see a Diminishing return on the sheet only when combat logs are parsed.

Ill pull my answer from another post to save some time lol.

Its pointless past 50-60% because of diminishing returns when you have another avenue to take after 50-60%. If you have the option of crit damage over crit chance and your crit chance is 50-60% you are infact lowering your dps rather then raising it. This is mathematics related not game related. 50/50% chance means you either crit or you dont. The further over 50% you go the higher your chance but it diminishes every percent over 50%. ( we stop at 60% normally) This is true in any form using this formula. Thus! Crit damage increase does not have diminishing returns. Which means more per point then the other. We stop at 60% because you can either live by the RNG gods with 50% or give yourself a slight advantage of them at 60%. Anything over is a complete waste if you are able to increase damage over chance. Thus anyone with a high crit chance is just gimping themselves.


Before anyone pulls out their derp badge. This does not include situations where for example a crit would cause an effect. for example if a crit did fire damage DOT ontop of the crit then the formula changes.

50% is solid perfect though. any further under and you dont have enough. any further over and you have too much.

Jumper45

Long story short. If you flip a coin and you have a 50/50 chance for heads or tails and i gave you the quarter every time you flipped and landed on heads. You can raise your chance to get heads to 70% of the time sure. But if you raised your (crit damage) Ill give you 2 quarters for every time you flip 1 quarter and land on heads. Etc. The more Crit damage you have the more quarters I give you.


If the Point of crit chance is to have burst damage does it lose its logic when you raise crit chance so much it becomes a static small number vs still a Bursting huge number? Keep in mind all of you. Percents Percents Percents. If something makes you do +30% more damage. Bigger crits will mean bigger percents.

Reeko

Jumper45 wrote: »

Long story short. If you flip a coin and you have a 50/50 chance for heads or tails and i gave you the quarter every time you flipped and landed on heads. You can raise your chance to get heads to 70% of the time sure. But if you raised your (crit damage) Ill give you 2 quarters for every time you flip 1 quarter and land on heads. Etc. The more Crit damage you have the more quarters I give you.


If the Point of crit chance is to have burst damage does it lose its logic when you raise crit chance so much it becomes a static small number vs still a Bursting huge number? Keep in mind all of you. Percents Percents Percents. If something makes you do +30% more damage. Bigger crits will mean bigger percents.

I applaud you for simplifying it in such a way!

arowz wrote: »

My crit sits at 82% native, another 3% more whenever I use a shadow (or is it assasin?) ability thanks to the passive. Unless my character sheet isn't showing the true number, whenever I add 1% of crit from gear, it adds 1% to my sheet, so no diminishing returns noticed.

I'm using 5 piece hundings rage v2 and 4 piece ashen grip v2. My daggers are both purple with the precise trait. I also have the 30 CP 12% crit buff and run with the assassin ultimate, ambush and impale for the crit % passive boost. Then the DW passive gives me even more crit with daggers. Lastly, I have Evil Hunter slotted... that's how I'm hitting 82%.

Couple that with a 30% crit damage boost (CPs and the class passive), I hit like a truck... at Vet 5. With siphoning on, I have 1450 weapon damage. I throw on Rally and it goes above 1700.

Question: Why do I seem to do more damage when I light attack after an ambush (note, empower buff), then if I surprise attack after the ambush?

Otherwise, normal Vet 5 or below enemies die after ambush, light attack, surprise attack... 82% of the time. Other times they take an impale or hidden blade to the dome.

You may have 82% crit but your weapon damage is really low. My crit is about 62.5% with 2020 weapon damage. So not only do i hit harder, but in turn my crits will crit harder. Not to mention i use Shadow mundus. I'm not trying to brag but to inform you as to why having your crit that high does not increase your dps by as much as you might think.

domlynchb16_ESO

i dont agree with the statements above. If you are in pvp higher crit is much more important. i have 80% ctit and 3.2 k+ damage. ( i had 4k before but low stam, i'm no at 30k stam vs. 24k)

For me it is about securing the outcome as much as possible.

50% crit for me is like going to the casino, red or black.

80% means i can confidently snipe/attack a player and know 8 out of 10 times I will crit

when you can kill someone hit 1 or 2 or 3 hits. then a 50% damage increase will secure the fight.

the people who say 50% crit is enough, may be referring to a pve/boss fight in a dungeon that takes 5 minutes of hitting the same attack over and over. In that case the damage/outcome/dps may balance out vs. having a higher crit chance

here is a real example.

i'm stealthed - i snipe with crit and 1 shot a sorc.
i'm stealthed and don't crit - the sorc goes to low health and then damage shields and streaks away.

i lost the chance to take him out based on crit chance at 50%

Reeko

But then that only applys to you wanting to gank one-shot people in pvp. Whereas the 50-60% statement is much more broad in its practicality. Don't get me wrong, you can play how you want, but most people usually prefer the more general better overall outcome.

I would also like to know how you hit 3k weapon damage with 30k stamina AND 80% crit. Do you use potions?

leepalmer95

To put numbers to it:

70% crit chance and 150% crit dmg and 100% non crit dmg, you attack 100 times.

70 times it will crit doing 10500%
30 times it won't crit doing 3000% dmg

So a total of 13500% dmg.

Now with 60% crit chance and 180% crit dmg and 100% non crit dmg, you attack 100 times.

60 times it will crit doing 10800% dmg
40 times it won't crit doing 4000% dmg

So a total of 14800% dmg

This is assuming the weapon dmg + stamina is the same for both which it won't be because lower crit chance usually means you have more weapon dmg/stamina.

Jumper45

domlynchb16_ESO wrote: »

i dont agree with the statements above. If you are in pvp higher crit is much more important. i have 80% ctit and 3.2 k+ damage. ( i had 4k before but low stam, i'm no at 30k stam vs. 24k)

For me it is about securing the outcome as much as possible.

50% crit for me is like going to the casino, red or black.

80% means i can confidently snipe/attack a player and know 8 out of 10 times I will crit

when you can kill someone hit 1 or 2 or 3 hits. then a 50% damage increase will secure the fight.

the people who say 50% crit is enough, may be referring to a pve/boss fight in a dungeon that takes 5 minutes of hitting the same attack over and over. In that case the damage/outcome/dps may balance out vs. having a higher crit chance

here is a real example.

i'm stealthed - i snipe with crit and 1 shot a sorc.
i'm stealthed and don't crit - the sorc goes to low health and then damage shields and streaks away.

i lost the chance to take him out based on crit chance at 50%

PVP likes to muddy the waters on this so i wouldnt use it as an example. reason being mobs are constant. Pvp targets are not. You could be fighting a lvl 10 or a vr 14. different gear. different skills. lvled skills CPs. everything. Skill plays out more then anything in pvp. it cannot be reduced down to something as simple as. If i crit 80% of the time all my targets will get 1shot vs 50% of the time and them not being 1shot. I Doubt you would be 1shotting through ward at 80% crit chance low crit damage anyways.

Its simple math and only a few situations will actually change the outcome of the numbers. Procs and what have you. If there is no procs then 60% will always out beat 70-100% when coupled with crit damage. You cant really argue past it.

The logic in 80% critting 1shot targets isnt even right. To say you run around 1shotting people 80% of the time is silly lol. If that were the case the fault would lay with zenimax's ability damages and it would get nerfed to fall into balance.

What youre talking about is killing a unskilled or player by surprise so you are trying for a niche scenario. Means you would have to be waiting for unwarded sorcs to come walking by so you can 1shot them. vs balancing your stats correctly and maybe just 1shotting them through the ward in normal combat. you will ALWAYS do more balancing crit damage/chance and 50-60% is the perfect number to balance on. There are actually 4 different ways to bump dps via crits and what not.

1: 50% crit chance 80% crit damage.( Most Efficient Numbers Highest damage over time)
2: 100% crit damage 30% crit chance. ( Huge burst dps for 1shotting targets- Situational)
3: 80% Attacking power 50% crit chance (Better sustained dps while getting a good crit 2nd best option less bursty)
4: 50% attacking power 80% crit chance (You) ( Works well if you have crit procs etc but 3rd lowest amount of dps less bursty)

Attack power and crit damage ( worst choice lowest dps)

Understand Crit damage will always out do attacking power because generally speaking the number ratios are 2:1 points ( otherwise everyone would just stack attacking power and skip crit all together)

tommyshelby

what is the purpose of weapon damage? For instance, does it matter if your bow or sword does 1000 damage or 200 if you are only using abilities? Doesn't that only matter with light/heavy attacks?

Jumper45

tommyshelby wrote: »

what is the purpose of weapon damage? For instance, does it matter if your bow or sword does 1000 damage or 200 if you are only using abilities? Doesn't that only matter with light/heavy attacks?

Some abilities say they use weapon damage/stamina. you'll have to look at the tooltips of abilities

domlynchb16_ESO

Reeko wrote: »

But then that only applys to you wanting to gank one-shot people in pvp. Whereas the 50-60% statement is much more broad in its practicality. Don't get me wrong, you can play how you want, but most people usually prefer the more general better overall outcome.

I would also like to know how you hit 3k weapon damage with 30k stamina AND 80% crit. Do you use potions?

I'm a NB so that is my playstyle, if i dont 1 shot, i usually 2 shot (longer stun from stealth)

khajit, + crit passive.

hundings set, morag tong, shadow walker - all jewellery weap damage, weap damage mundus stone,
rally (20%) + relentles focus (8%) , + camo hunter (crit) + flawless dawnbreaker (8%) + all cp points into mighty

i changed it to hawks eye (rings + lost 2 morag) to get more stamina

80% crit is on the dual weild bar - 3.2k weap damage. bow is around 75% - 3k damage.