2H block animations - Are you happy? (long and with pictures in true color)

Greatsword

tl;dr: Please fix the 2h blocking posture! It looks awkward and unrealistic.

Disclaimer: This is about the visual quality of animations, not about the animation skipping/weaving hoopla. However, with the latter being a hot topic (and some changes supposedly inbound), this might be a big chance to overhaul the visual quality of some animations, too.

Combat animations have always been my major issue with ESO, dating back to closed beta, where I posted a lot of feedback about this topic in the beta forums and the in-game feedback forms. Of course, back then, there were even bigger issues with the overall "responsiveness" of combat, but those have been addressed long ago. And quite successfully so (proper sound efffects and collision detection helped a lot).

Thing is: ESO's combat animations and their fluidity are mostly great (by MMO standards). But a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and a few unfortunate design decisions can have a great impact on the perceived overall quality of animations.
The most glaring issue has already been fixed with the first animations overhaul in Update 6: The overall combat postures look a lot better now, with characters standing more upright and less like the Hunchback of Notre Dame. However, I hope this was just a first step into the right direction, as we all spend a lot of our time in this game with combat (and in 3rd person cam, since it's an MMO). Therefore, making this aspect of the game look & feel right goes a long way when it comes to immersion - the latter being one of the major competitive advantages ESO has in the current MMO market.

Speaking of weak links... which is currently the weakest one among ESO's combat animations?
Blocking/Parrying with two-handed weapons!*

In my humble opinion, #ThisIsNotSkyrim and even Oblivion did a better job here. I would have a lot more examples, but I want to stick to Elder Scrolls games for this illustration. Also, it might be easier to implement these, as the assets do exist within the same company already (ok, that's probably just outright naive from me).

The pictures I am going to post don't exactly do the whole topic ustice. It's hard to capture what's "off" with ESO's 2h block animations in static pictures, as you have to see it in motion, from different angles, standing, walking and when blocking blows.
But still: it's better to have *something* to look at, when discussing visuals, than basing everything off the pictures in our heads.

The comparison:




While the Skyrim animation (which is quite similar to what you see in other games such as DS, TW3 etc) has a slightly over-the-top heroic vibe to it (which the nerd in me LOVES), the Oblivion animation is similar to what we got in ESO - but does feel more "real" with a tightly gripped sword hilt, combat-ready body tension and a shoulder position which looks much more ready to riposte - all within the limits of a 10 years old engine, of course.

The 2h blocking in ESO looks like something I would rather expect from someone holding a rifle or bayonet:



Now I know it's not as easy as "copy that piece of code from Skyrim into ESO" and that this kind of change most likely has an impact on half a dozen systems and mechanics. I am also fully aware of the fact that all our devs and designers are busy with IC and the upcoming DLCs in general.
But maybe there is a slight chance that improving some of the parry/block animations makes it onto "the list" (yes, I mean your list, @ZOS_RichLambert !).
That's all I ask for.
Another piece of the puzzle towards making ESO the real deal.

I am, by the way, quite happy with the other parry/block animations in this game. While blocking with a bow is quite a daring thing to to do anyway, staff blocking looks good, dual wielding has a proper florentine parry and shield blocking looks solid (albeit a little static).







.........................................

* Ok, it is in fact blocking/parrying with a one-handed weapon; but as long as there is no skill-tree for one-handed weapons, technically there is no reaon why any player would ever wield a one-handed weapon without a shield.



If I hide behind my sword, maybe my enemy won't see me?

Greatsword

From now on I have to accept that I am the only person who cares about this!

Egonieser

All valid points and well constructed, but something like this mostly is spotted by immersionists not oldschool MMO players that grew up with a block only being a "stat" and a floating text above your head saying you blocked/evaded/parried something with no real animation. I personally couldn't care less either and is not something i look out for, as i focus on my actual stats and mechanics rather than animations. It probably would be nice, but if they changed it tomorrow i probably wouldn't even notice. Different things for different people i guess.

Greatsword

Egonieser wrote: »

All valid points and well constructed, but something like this mostly is spotted by immersionists not oldschool MMO players that grew up with a block only being a "stat" and a floating text above your head saying you blocked/evaded/parried something with no real animation. I personally couldn't care less either and is not something i look out for, as i focus on my actual stats and mechanics rather than animations. It probably would be nice, but if they changed it tomorrow i probably wouldn't even notice. Different things for different people i guess.

Well that's an opinion I can very much respect. But considering that a vital part of this game's monetization is based on cosmetics and fluff (mounts, motifs, costumes, pets etc. in the crown store), I thought people would care more about this kind of stuff.
At least I know I do.

(Hey, ZOS, I have an idea: Why not sell alternative animations, such as new block animations, in the crown store?)

KiraTsukasa

Skyrim's bashing animation looks more effective. Rather than the awkward shove that I do in ESO with a two-handed sword, I really get the feel of cracking someone in the face with my hilt. Also, the position in which you hold a two-handed sword to block in ESO just looks weird. It could really use some TLC.

As for dual wielding, I'm happy with the pose that it has (actually, I'm happy that dual wielding can block at all), but the bash animation is weird. Why would I hit someone with the broad side of my blades when I can just stab/slash them instead? Doesn't make sense.

Shield and sword is fine as is though. There really isn't much you can do to improve that.

Greatsword

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Skyrim's bashing animation looks more effective. Rather than the awkward shove that I do in ESO with a two-handed sword, I really get the feel of cracking someone in the face with my hilt. Also, the position in which you hold a two-handed sword to block in ESO just looks weird. It could really use some TLC.

As for dual wielding, I'm happy with the pose that it has (actually, I'm happy that dual wielding can block at all), but the bash animation is weird. Why would I hit someone with the broad side of my blades when I can just stab/slash them instead? Doesn't make sense.

Shield and sword is fine as is though. There really isn't much you can do to improve that.

Well, I am not too much concerned with the shoves but rather with the overall posture when blocking with a two-handed weapon.
The shove is meant to be used in very, very close quarter situations where you can just shove and don't have the room to stab (picture yourself freeing from a clinch when boxing). Plus it doesn't break your block.

But yea, I do agree.

Mashille

I hate ALL of the 2 handed animations. They all feel really clunky and bad.

dodgehopper_ESO

Actually I agree with you @Greatsword. I'll go even further to mention that I find it rather irritating the way our superheroic characters that would probably give Hercules pause, if the story were to be believed, are also characters who look away as they swing their swords and very often telegraph and overswing their weapons. These same superheroes, Champions, and Paragons of combat prowess will swing so wildly that they forget they have a shield and fling it behind them in order to be certain that the imaginary foe at their back won't hit them (I suspect too much skooma). At any regard I know what you mean, although video games in general get these kinds of things way wrong. The block animations could probably be a bit more impressive but I'm actually more perturbed by the telegraph and haymaker attack.

F7sus4

I hate haters hating other haters hating things they think they should hate.

Greatsword

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Actually I agree with you @Greatsword. I'll go even further to mention that I find it rather irritating the way our superheroic characters that would probably give Hercules pause, if the story were to be believed, are also characters who look away as they swing their swords and very often telegraph and overswing their weapons. These same superheroes, Champions, and Paragons of combat prowess will swing so wildly that they forget they have a shield and fling it behind them in order to be certain that the imaginary foe at their back won't hit them (I suspect too much skooma). At any regard I know what you mean, although video games in general get these kinds of things way wrong. The block animations could probably be a bit more impressive but I'm actually more perturbed by the telegraph and haymaker attack.

While I fully agree and my original intent was to include this in my... suggestion... I quickly realized that getting all animations redone from scratch is not going to happen. We will have to wait for ESO 2 to see something like that.
So I just picked the weakest link which I thought at least somewhat realistic to fix.

F7sus4 wrote: »

I hate haters hating other haters hating things they think they should hate.

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