Game Difficulty - Make everything a range fight?

MikeB

So far, the only vet dungeons my group has issues doing are the bosses that are near impossible to beat if you are melee and those that require you have 20k+ stam to chase the boss all over the room and break free every 20-30 se onds. My group being a melee stam dk, an AoE/heals templar, dk tank and nb healer/range dps. Is this style of fight going to be a platter going forward? We have 0 problems out of dungeon bosses that more than 10 seconds of melee dps before you have to roll out of an AoE or the boss teleports and you have to chase him across the room.

MikeB

People are beating these dungeons not with skill but OP amounts of CP's. The boss fight designs are horrible to say the least.

BBSooner

MikeB wrote: »

People are beating these dungeons not with skill but OP amounts of CP's. The boss fight designs are horrible to say the least.

These dungeons were accomplished prior to the introduction of CP.

UrQuan

Everyone should always either have a ranged option (could be a weapon swap to a ranged weapon, or it could be just having some ranged abilities on your bar that you can use while closing to melee), or a good gap closer, or both. In group dungeons (especially vet ones) you need to be able to switch up your tactics depending on the fight.

Recently I've been doing a lot more tanking than I used to, and my tank setup is sword & board on both bars, so I'm definitely a melee guy in that setup (and really any tank should be primarily a melee setup), but I make use of a gap closer, and depending on the fight I'll slot a ranged class ability as well (I also always have Structured Entropy on both bars, so I've got a little bit of ranged from that, but it's not exactly an ability that does much damage - it's there primarily to give me more resources).

leepalmer95

MikeB wrote: »

People are beating these dungeons not with skill but OP amounts of CP's. The boss fight designs are horrible to say the least.

I'm on console, we don't have insane amounts of cp, most of you barely have 50, yet we can still do these vet dungeons very easily.

There not hard just require decent communication and people's characters to have decent builds.

We managed to do 2 trails a few days ago as well.

Zanen

Actually there's basically no reason to be ranged DPS in the entire PVE game.

Having a ranged attack is useful in a couple spots, like vet fungal, but those fights are super easy and don't require high ranged dps. A ranged attack is nice for a few add phases too, particularly AA's final boss so you don't have to move to burn it down quick.

Every build has access to an ability that works fine for that stuff, and melee damage is superior the other 98% of the time.

Use a gap closer, build for some sustain, use synergies, learn the mechanics. It isn't really about CP there aren't any really demanding DPS races in the game, CP mostly just improves your time for leaderboards.

OmniDevil

I have over 220 skill points and have maxed 2H, DW and Bow, including skill morphs. Doing this allowed me to be versatile when needed. Vet Fungal Grotto, last boss (not using the aura) having a range build available to me when it called for it made this boss a joke for my group.

MikeB

To me it just seems some bosses are one offs that require insane amounts of AoE or everyone has to be range. So far we only have trouble out of 2 bosses, can't recall the dungeons ATM, leaving work

F7sus4

leepalmer95 wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

People are beating these dungeons not with skill but OP amounts of CP's. The boss fight designs are horrible to say the least.

I'm on console, we don't have insane amounts of cp, most of you barely have 50, yet we can still do these vet dungeons very easily.

And you're right. People rant about CP without even knowing what the real difference is.

UrQuan

MikeB wrote: »

To me it just seems some bosses are one offs that require insane amounts of AoE or everyone has to be range. So far we only have trouble out of 2 bosses, can't recall the dungeons ATM, leaving work

Yup, some bosses require different tactics to beat them. Off the top of my head one comes to mind that basically requires ranged DPS (the last one in vet Fungal Grotto), and one comes to mind that basically requires a lot of AoEs (the second one in vet Banished Cells). There are other bosses that require other specialized tactics. That's not a bad thing. You have to be adaptable and willing to change up your tactics (and sometimes your skill bars) depending on what the situation calls for. If you could just use the same tactics in every boss fight the game would get boring quickly.

ssewallb14_ESO

Which bosses are you having trouble with? There are only a few I even bother equipping a ranged skill for, and I only go full ranged on Engine Guardian and Vila Theran.

UrQuan

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Which bosses are you having trouble with? There are only a few I even bother equipping a ranged skill for, and I only go full ranged on Engine Guardian and Vila Theran.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Engine Guardian mechanics - you're right, you pretty much need to go ranged for that fight too.

Shunravi

F7sus4 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

MikeB wrote: »

People are beating these dungeons not with skill but OP amounts of CP's. The boss fight designs are horrible to say the least.

I'm on console, we don't have insane amounts of cp, most of you barely have 50, yet we can still do these vet dungeons very easily.

And you're right. People rant about CP without even knowing what the real difference is.

Well, it's so much easier to have a scapegoat.

MikeB

Yeah, its good to have variety but when you are to busy dodging aoe, killings ads, chasing the boss from one side of the room to the other and breaking out of stuns how am I as a magicka caster supposed to have the Stam to maintain the fight and when am I supposed to have the time to kill the boss

Reverb

MikeB wrote: »

People are beating these dungeons not with skill but OP amounts of CP's. The boss fight designs are horrible to say the least.

Yep, nobody beat a single dungeon before CP were introduced /eyeroll

LEGENDARYYY

Nope, dungeons are too easy. It's nerfed to the ground. Proof in my signature.

LEGENDARYYY

MikeB wrote: »

People are beating these dungeons not with skill but OP amounts of CP's. The boss fight designs are horrible to say the least.

Is this sarcasm?

UrQuan

MikeB wrote: »

Yeah, its good to have variety but when you are to busy dodging aoe, killings ads, chasing the boss from one side of the room to the other and breaking out of stuns how am I as a magicka caster supposed to have the Stam to maintain the fight and when am I supposed to have the time to kill the boss

The answer is that you don't do all of that at the same time. If a fight gives you trouble the first time you talk out a strategy before trying it again, and you give people specific jobs to do.

A pretty standard setup is to have the tank try to hold aggro from the boss so that only the tank needs to worry too much about any AoEs or stuns or whatever the boss is throwing out (granted this doesn't work for all fights, as some bosses have mechanics that have a special attack go to a random member of the group every so often) - the tank should also try to hold aggro from any particularly threatening adds where possible, for the same reasons. Meanwhile one DPS focuses on the adds and the other focuses on the boss (or both focus on the adds and then switch to focus on the boss when the adds are down). The healer heals, while doing a bit of DPS when and where appropriate. If there's something specific that someone needs to watch for (a good example of this would be the feasts that spawn every so often to heal Rilis in Banished Cells) then someone is assigned that duty.

I mean, that's the most basic breakdown of it, but it works well for most fights, and for ones where it doesn't work exactly like that, you're usually doing a variation of it. The key thing is to know exactly what each member of the group will be focusing on, and to have good communication for when something goes awry so that you can swap jobs when needed (for example, in fights where one member of the party may be out of commission for a time - Rilis in Banished Cells comes to mind again - you want to prepare so that you've got backups for each job).

If everyone is trying to do everything all at once, there will be some fights where you have serious trouble. Oh, and if your reaction times are good, I find there's rarely any need to dodge-roll out of AoEs. 90% of them you can walk out of if you're quick about it (although if you get too used to doing this you'll often run into problems on the few that you actually need to dodge-roll out of).

MikeB

Thanks to those thsty post actual advice. Yes when I made the comment about CP's I wasn't being serious, even though it is true that people bypass mechanics if they have enough CP's. I have ~135 skill points and after my 3 professions (not all passives taken), DPS skills, armor and racial I don't have enough to have choice in build. VR5

OzJohnD

The answer is that you don't do all of that at the same time. If a fight gives you trouble the first time you talk out a strategy before trying it again, and you give people specific jobs to do.

yep ... if what you do don't work, change - not all bosses should have the same mechanic, variety is crucial

btw ... build choices are limited by other choices, not by the limitations in available skill points.