On Vigor and stamina as an inferior resource to main in general

Huxide

I've played on the PTS a few days ago (PTS isnt the focus here, i just didnt play stam builds which arent a tank at all till that day) as an imperial stamplar...... i've equipped all the popular powerful skills (and vigor, thinking that it would be my self-heal) and went to the imperial city to see how the combat goes there..... i've fought with a group of people against another group of people, and when i got low on health and the healer wasnt around i said to myself "ill just use vigor and continue fighting..." i used it, and besides a visual effect and a small regen nothing really happens, this skill is supposed to be THE stamina healing skill, and besides getting that we get a heal that is not that large, but not too small, IF IT WASNT SPREAD ACROSS 5 SECONDS.....

having the only big stamina heal (that isnt based on environment, hey there repentance) as a regen is awful, it doesnt let stamina builds viable for solo pvp unless you either sneak or have pocket-healer.......

and for those who say that stamina heals arent lore friendly to begin with, remember that this game needs balance..... it's not single player (the main reason ESO gets way more balance outcry compared to other games), and it works totally differently skill-effectiveness wise compared to other TES games

magicka has more utility, healing, and isnt required to block / dodge roll / sneak / sprint / CC break, so at least let the people who choose to use stamina builds something to work with when it comes to self-healing (im not mentioning pots because everyone can chug them at the same rate if they invest in alchemy, which is not a stamina or magicka thing)......

it seems like we're going back (even though we mostly never left) elder staves online, mages have the over-all upper hand.......

Aett_Thorn

Did you try using a magika heal and see how much that gave you back?

All heals were cut by 50% in PvP. That includes Vigor, so that might be what you are seeing.

Huxide

yup i just created another char to test how much does it heal in imp city and it (aka breath of life) healed basically for the same amount as vigor heals, but the prob isnt how much it healed total, it's that vigor is a heal over time and over alot of time.....

GreenSoup2HoT

Cyrodil debuff may be the reason. You may have a big heal pool too.

As a stamina nb, i can at least cloak and get 3 second's of time to heal. I can't wait till i get Vigor for DW.

Huxide

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Cyrodil debuff may be the reason. You may have a big heal pool too.

you seem to be missing my point, the amount it heals is okay (aka heals about as much as breath of life), but the problem is that it's not an instant heal, it's a decent-sized heal spread over alot of time.....

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

As a stamina nb, i can at least cloak and get 3 second's of time to heal.

well, vigor shouldnt be a "okay now lets wait till it actually heals what i wanted to heal" skill anyway, and since vigor is for all classes, using one class's skill doesnt justify an all-class underpowered skill (and even more importantly, the only stamina heal in the game) being underpowered.

GreenSoup2HoT

I agree vigor should be more bursty but not AoE.

TheBull

Too funny. I always told people Vigor is ok, I mean it's pretty good, but it's not what all those people qq about it being rank 10 think it is. Vigor is most effective while disengaging. When used during disengagement vigor is pretty damn good. When tanking (mitigating damage) vigor is also strong.

It never was a "I win" button, but it's pretty nice when used properly.

Huxide

TheBull wrote: »

Vigor is most effective while disengaging.

in it's current state i agree, but if you disengage you can use pots too, vigor should be what's keeping you in the fight (aka an actual, effective heal), not something you pop once no one is on you.......

TheBull wrote: »

It never was a "I win" button, but it's pretty nice when used properly.

well, the purpse of heals is to keep people in the fight, which means it could be an "I win" button, but we can make that argument about every burst heal.

trimsic_ESO

@DOVAHCREED While I agree with you about the stamina builds not being on par with the magicka builds since 4/4/14, I would suggest you to use vigor differently. Instead of using it when you are in need of a heal, use it as a pre-hot heal (hot=heal over time).

Huxide

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Instead of using it when you are in need of a heal, use it as a pre-hot heal.

using it that way can be the solution in some cases, but not when you take a big hit out of no where and instead of healing yourself and fighting back you can only either chug a potion or just use vigor and die because you didnt heal for enough.....

while alot of health regen is nice (aka vigor), i think that if there's only one stamina heal in the game, at least make it a burst heal instead of a regen because you still cant heal yourself well as a stamina user if someone suprises you, stamina (DD builds, tanking is a whole other topic) builds (at least in cyro, because in pve dungeons and such you mostly have a healer on you that gives you heals and shards) atm are just "sneak attack, stun, kill, sneak away, repeat" and cant really fight a magicka user face-to-face because of the lack of instant heals....... imagine being attacked by the other type of player in each situation:
1. magicka user being attacked by a stamina user: knocked down / stunned, breaks stun, heals, stuns the other player, other player breaks stun, DD fight, magicka user wins
2. stamina user being attacked by a magicka user: knocked down / stunned, breaks stun, charges at the magicka user, the magicka user deals the rest of the damage left for the stamina user to die as he charges, magicka user wins

one stamina heal could've turned the tides of the second battle, but since the heal isnt big / instant, you cant sustain in a fight because the enemy can heal and you cant.....

Rylana

Combine vigor with rally sometime... you will regret you ever knocked it.

Ahzek

I played a stamina build purely relying on crit surge (lol) and vigor for healing my first day on PTS as well. However it is a s you siad, vigor is not enough to keep you alive under lots of pressure.
Thats exactly the reason i went to 2 handed and started using rally. I hardly have any issues anymore since rally, while not really spammable, provides exactly what ypu are looking for. A pretty substantial burst heal that can keep you alive after burst and give you time for other heals, like vigor, to get you back up.
Vigor on itself isnt all that strong, but in combination with other heals, self heals or otherwise, it becomes a beast.

trimsic_ESO

Ahzek wrote: »

I played a stamina build purely relying on crit surge (lol) and vigor for healing my first day on PTS as well. However it is a s you siad, vigor is not enough to keep you alive under lots of pressure.
Thats exactly the reason i went to 2 handed and started using rally. I hardly have any issues anymore since rally, while not really spammable, provides exactly what ypu are looking for. A pretty substantial burst heal that can keep you alive after burst and give you time for other heals, like vigor, to get you back up.
Vigor on itself isnt all that strong, but in combination with other heals, self heals or otherwise, it becomes a beast.

Exactly, and what makes rally interesting is that you have to let rally operate for a certain time to have the instant heal work when you cast rally again. The longer it is active, the better is the heal. This skill really promotes a good gameplay.

OdinForge

Vigor is garbage on the PTS PvP post healing nerf, on the live server it's always been a strong heal. But it's never been an OP heal, 1K-2.5K healing ticks are nice and strong, but that won't keep you alive in emergencies. Applying the burst heal from rally will, obviously you combine these heals with various LOS tactics and that's what makes them strong.

On the PTS in PvP vigor is nearly useless, rally is still more bang for the buck.

Tankqull

the stamina based emergency burst heal is rally
the stamina based heal over time with a small but not insignificant burst at the start is vigor.

use them as they are intdended and dont demend them to be changed... they are allready stronger than they should be from a magica perspective who lack any magica based option to them without beeing certain classes...