What's Up With First Person?

Hrodvar

So I noticed something today. While looking around in first person, your actual character model does not actually turn. To put it another way, if you turn around in first person, other players don't see you turn. I personally wish this was changed. It totally breaks the immersion for fist person players. Thoughts?

Nebthet78

That has to look very strange then when I start running sideways and am looking around.

Enaijo

That's not a bug. If you just look around in third person, your character doesn't move either.

Hrodvar

I know it's not a bug. I'd still like to see it changed.

Enaijo

This won't be changed. It's how it works in most MMOs, because every movement of your character has to be communicated to every player around you (and the server has to check the validity of the "new" position). Moving your character every time you are moving the camera would mean more stress for the servers. If you multiply it by the amount of players, you can imagine what that would mean for an MMO.

Hrodvar

I've seen other games do it where other parts of the world aren't rendered until they come into view. This includes other NPCs, and I think it can be applied to players. I don't think that if they used the aforementioned system that it would cause lag, as a limited number of players are in your view. Besides, it would really be a great addition for role-players as it adds a better level of immersion.

RSram

The problem with this is that sometimes I waste resources using a skill that shoots in the wrong direction. What the developers should have done is to rotate your character in the direction of your cross hair and then activate the skill or weapon. This would allow you to use the cross hair more precisely, like when using the streak type abilities too. I submitted several feedback requests on this during beta, but got no response.

Thunder

Hrodvar wrote: »

Besides, it would really be a great addition for role-players as it adds a better level of immersion.

Oh come on. No game should ever be changed in any regard what so ever for role players. Before you get all up in arms, I have nothing what so ever against role players, role playing, or hazelnut creamer. I can't stress that strongly enough, I love me some hazelnut creamer in my coffee. However, role players are already "pretending", and games are far and away more advanced than one could reasonably expect them to be. In my lifetime games have gone from a single white block that bounced back and forth across and B&W TV screen to nearly photo realistic representations of the world around us. If I could role play back in 1980 while playing Adventure on my Atari 2600, I think you can role play in Elder Scrolls Online even if your character doesn't auto-rotate to where you are facing in first person view.

Disclaimer: this post was written with a lighthearted, tongue in cheek intention, if it upsets you then you are taking it too seriously.

Xantaria

Nice thread!

Sallington

Xantaria wrote: »

Nice thread!

Exactly.

If I see one more post about something that is working perfectly fine in the game, breaking someone's immersion.... I'll probably go into a coma.

Vampire-Mk2

I can't see how other players not being able to see where you are looking breaking your immersion? Neither are connected.

Did I read it wrong?

NewBlacksmurf

Think of it this way.
In first person you're only turning your head.
In third person you're moving your feet.

Working as intended

F7sus4

Hrodvar wrote: »

It totally breaks the immersion for fist person players. Thoughts?

Yes, when you say you're a first person player you also indirectly admit you're terrible player as well.

snackrat

You're turning your head, not your character. You can see in third person, if you rotate the camera so the reticle is over a nearby player, your head will turn to them (assuming they are in range).

But yes, I do with it were possible to turn on the spot, esp since it would make lining up emotes like /leanback easier. Currently the only way to do so is to 1st-person, and block-bash in the desired direction.

I_killed_Vivec

F7sus4 wrote: »

Hrodvar wrote: »

It totally breaks the immersion for fist person players. Thoughts?

Yes, when you say you're a first person player you also indirectly admit you're terrible player as well.

Not necessarily a terrible player, just playing in a harder mode.

One where you don't have the advantage of being able to see things behind you and where opponents don't kindly provide red patches to let you know you're being targeted.

In fact, if you need these advantages then aren't you the worse player?

F7sus4

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

In fact, if you need these advantages then aren't you the worse player?

It's not an "advantage", just avoidance of crippling tunnel-vision blinkers mode. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mind you giving me free AP in PvP for doing that.

Gidorick

F7sus4 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

In fact, if you need these advantages then aren't you the worse player?

It's not an "advantage", just avoidance of crippling tunnel-vision blinkers mode. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mind you giving me free AP in PvP for doing that.

I like to phase it like this: If two players perform equally well and one plays in first person and one plays in third person, the player in first person has completed a more difficult task than the player in third person.

Gidorick

To the OP... don't try using Mouse Freelook in first person. It'll drive you mad!

Athas24

Gidorick wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

In fact, if you need these advantages then aren't you the worse player?

It's not an "advantage", just avoidance of crippling tunnel-vision blinkers mode. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mind you giving me free AP in PvP for doing that.

I like to phase it like this: If two players perform equally well and one plays in first person and one plays in third person, the player in first person has completed a more difficult task than the player in third person.

Except they won't perform equally well.

Waffennacht

Wanna bet? I only do first person and have my whole life.

I have no difficulty killing people. Have yet to lose a 1v1 PVP match. Sure I can see the advantage of 3rd person, but its unnecessary.

Spacial recognition is useful, plus its not like you have to be dead on to hit with a sword...

Also I notice a lot of swing and misses from 3rd party view point.

Go ahead call me bad for using first person, wouldn't be the first time, but it would be the first time its true.

rb2001

Hrodvar wrote: »

I've seen other games do it where other parts of the world aren't rendered until they come into view. This includes other NPCs, and I think it can be applied to players. I don't think that if they used the aforementioned system that it would cause lag, as a limited number of players are in your view. Besides, it would really be a great addition for role-players as it adds a better level of immersion.

Correct, ESO doesn't render things out of view.

Virtually every finished 3d engine ever created behaves like that. Things farther in view use LOD textures or models, and are not drawn past the viewing distance (or when occluded - behind other things). There is a considerable amount of theory that goes into optimizing this process.

As a model enters your draw distance, it is immediately drawn (in next frame within draw distance) with the position and rotation that is currently has in the game world, on the server's local data. The initial position and rotation are "looked up" and the model is rendered as such. There is no increased cost for this initial lookup whether the model is right-up or upside down.

Anywhere players are within other players' draw distances (hello smithies, or any city), updating player models' rotation based on their mouse-look input would on average increase server load and user-experienced lag.

Mouse-look is the crux here. Position and rotation are being tracked and updated for virtually all player-character movements and actions, but what is actually being requested here is for it also to create appropriate rotations based on player mouse-look input, while in first person.

It seems like there is a dividing line, or different behavior between 1st and 3rd person here, but there actually isn't. Mouse-look in both cameras does not update the player-character model.

DaveMoeDee

Enaijo wrote: »

That's not a bug. If you just look around in third person, your character doesn't move either.

Yeah, but in first person it means there is some exorcist head spinning going on!

Nothing to see here, move along.

Gidorick

Athas24 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

In fact, if you need these advantages then aren't you the worse player?

It's not an "advantage", just avoidance of crippling tunnel-vision blinkers mode. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mind you giving me free AP in PvP for doing that.

I like to phase it like this: If two players perform equally well and one plays in first person and one plays in third person, the player in first person has completed a more difficult task than the player in third person.

Except they won't perform equally well.

You have a hard time with hypothetical thought I see...

And I guarantee there are players who play first person who are better than those who play in third. Maybe it's not generally how it works out, but I know they exist.

F7sus4

Gidorick wrote: »

If two players perform equally well and one plays in first person and one plays in third person, the player in first person has completed a more difficult task than the player in third person.

Except that the FPP player will just not finish it.

Athas24

Gidorick wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

In fact, if you need these advantages then aren't you the worse player?

It's not an "advantage", just avoidance of crippling tunnel-vision blinkers mode. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mind you giving me free AP in PvP for doing that.

I like to phase it like this: If two players perform equally well and one plays in first person and one plays in third person, the player in first person has completed a more difficult task than the player in third person.

Except they won't perform equally well.

You have a hard time with hypothetical thought I see...

And I guarantee there are players who play first person who are better than those who play in third. Maybe it's not generally how it works out, but I know they exist.

Get your camera ready for em! It's what I do when I look for a Big Foot! I swear they/he exist(s)!

rb2001

Playing in first or third person--which is easier? Whichever you spent more time doing.

One may come easier to you, and the other may come easier to another person, sure. However, if you dedicate yourself to whatever mode you prefer, you will become best at that mode.

The same goes for M + KB vs. a controller, all differences and limitations of each aside.

We are human beings.

Give us any complex, repetitive task, and with enough time, we will make it look like child's play. We are very good at whatever we spend time learning the most, no matter if one seems more difficult than the other at first.

I_killed_Vivec

F7sus4 wrote: »

It's not an "advantage"

just avoidance of crippling tunnel-vision blinkers mode

I defer to your superior powers of logic!

But you should give hard mode a try some day - see what fighting is like when you're up close and personal to your enemies, rather than pulling the strings of a distant puppet.

Go on... give it a go. You might like it!

Nobody would have to know...

F7sus4

I actually did play like that for the very first month of the game. Then I realized how much of a pug I was. Not to say it's plain evil to encourage others to do the same mistake.

Gidorick

Athas24 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

In fact, if you need these advantages then aren't you the worse player?

It's not an "advantage", just avoidance of crippling tunnel-vision blinkers mode. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mind you giving me free AP in PvP for doing that.

I like to phase it like this: If two players perform equally well and one plays in first person and one plays in third person, the player in first person has completed a more difficult task than the player in third person.

Except they won't perform equally well.

You have a hard time with hypothetical thought I see...

And I guarantee there are players who play first person who are better than those who play in third. Maybe it's not generally how it works out, but I know they exist.

Get your camera ready for em! It's what I do when I look for a Big Foot! I swear they/he exist(s)!

You get an awesome sir!