One of the worst tutorials I have ever played.

Kylestien

Hello. So a little feedback first. I've never played a MMO. So if anything strikes you as obvious, I apologize.

So, here's my experience with this MMO so far in the tutorial. I'm gonna go step by step.

I start off in a Prison cell. Good start. However, I seem to almost miss the person smashing my cell door open, so I don't know I can open it. It does not help that, due to no subtitles when out of direct conversation, I did not get a word of what she says. I open the door, and loot the dead guy. Now, I'm aware that there are many different weapons in the game, but the ONLY thing on this corpse is a Two handed sword. Yeah, I can probably loot some other things later, but where is the choice in what I use at first? Maybe I'm a dagger guy, or a sword and shield guy. I get into my first fight. Strike him down. Simple enough. I level up. And it explains nothing about leveling up. Sure it explains the stats of magic, Health and Stamina, but not what they are and do. And the skill system is hardly explained either. I don't know how to equip or use one. By out right guessing, I manage to find out how to equip one skill. I use it. Except I can't for some reason. I enter the next area. I get told how to block, do a strong attack, and how to interrupt. That bit all good... till I lever up again. I try to put a point in a new skill? Cant do it, not high enough, I try to level up my old skills since there's a three there. Can't do that either. Next area. There are people killing things. I join in for a bit. NOW I can use my skill. Don't know why i could not before. Then I get told i need to kill some Sentinal thing. I sneak up on it after being told to. That's explained, but just how to do it rather then anything else. I kill the thing. I go to a door. We find Cadwell. Funny guy. We go through the other door. I have no idea where to go except to just follow the arrow. Which I do. I avoid the traps. I get to the Prison of the Prophet. I kill a few guys. I activate some things I had no idea how to. They switch. I follow hom through the door. Easily the best part of the Tutorial follows: Molag Bal appears in a cloud of smoke, says we will never leave, and summons a large undead skeleton. Its a pretty cool fight, making you use what you learned by striking and interrupting when it picks you up, against a cool boss. Good part. Then I pick up a Skyshard. NO idea what it does. We leave. I talk to the Prophet's ghost holgram thing. I'm taken to a quest complete screen, except I have no idea about the rewards. Do I pick one? Do I get both? What does a urn do? I stop.

Throughout all of this, i feel like I have been thrown into the deep end of the pool, with the only thing I know for sure how to do is kill. At no point is any of the following explained:

Menu
Looting importance
That I can use other weapons or magic
The skills system
How to level
Why to sneak or how you have been spotted
Crown Store usage (Which, you know, you'd think be a top priority)
How to use skills/how they work
How to equip anything
Really, NOTHING IS EXPLAINED

I'm gonna give ESO a fair chance as a game. Like I said, the boss fight was cool and well done. But I don't get how to do anything, and the tutorial is easily one of the worst I have ever played. EVER.

Zavinus

Snip

phairdon

The tutorial part was changed at some point. Before the change, you did get a choice of weapons.

Molag_Crow

It's more of a personal experience & opinion too, though. I mean.. I played with sound on, I heard Lyris clearly smashing on my back doors. I mean.. prison cell door. Tutorials are usually bad on many different games from what I've seen through the years, I guess. Oh well!

Kylestien

Zavinus wrote: »

Yeah, in my opinion it's really linear and bland. I just skip it every time I make a new character.

Agreed. I will give credit where due though: the Child Or Bones bit was pretty cool.

phairdon wrote: »

The tutorial part was changed at some point. Before the change, you did get a choice of weapons.

Yeah, I think i recall that from watching a couple of PC videos. Why did it change? That seems like a stupid thing to change.

CrowsDescend wrote: »

It's more of a personal experience & opinion too, though. I mean.. I played with sound on, I heard Lyris clearly smashing on my back doors. I mean.. prison cell door. Tutorials are usually bad on many different games from what I've seen through the years, I guess. Oh well!

Oh yeah, it's definitely a thing of opinion, but personally I'm of the opinion that you should at least be explained more basics then "Here is how you kill, all you need man."

Qyrk

I've played many games and the tutorial is mostly directed at movement and combat (becaause you know it's slightly different from other games - you actually have to dodge around etc.). All of what you're asking for is under the help menu, but to be honest if the tutorial would cover what is under the help menu (and even briefly mentioning it and explaining the basics), then you would be at wailing prison for a loooong time. For someone that has been playing h ape of games, experiencing different 'starter tutorials or how-to', I'd say it's well done. Your opinion and my opinion differs and you can't please everybody.

phairdon

Kylestien wrote: »

Zavinus wrote: »

Yeah, in my opinion it's really linear and bland. I just skip it every time I make a new character.

Agreed. I will give credit where due though: the Child Or Bones bit was pretty cool.

phairdon wrote: »

The tutorial part was changed at some point. Before the change, you did get a choice of weapons.

Yeah, I think i recall that from watching a couple of PC videos. Why did it change? That seems like a stupid thing to change.

CrowsDescend wrote: »

It's more of a personal experience & opinion too, though. I mean.. I played with sound on, I heard Lyris clearly smashing on my back doors. I mean.. prison cell door. Tutorials are usually bad on many different games from what I've seen through the years, I guess. Oh well!

Oh yeah, it's definitely a thing of opinion, but personally I'm of the opinion that you should at least be explained more basics then "Here is how you kill, all you need man."

Cannot remember when it changed, poor memory. Could well have happened during the time I took a break from the game (came back to the game during December).

Tandor

I think it changed with the change in business model and general overhaul - was that update 1.6?

I find the new tutorial straightforward enough, but to be honest I don't think it was worth making the change, it's neither better nor worse than the old one. My only criticism with both relates to the encouragement to apply skill points at a time when you don't really know how you plan on building your character.

While things like skyshards could be better explained, I agree that doing so would turn the tutorial into a long-winded affair rather like the original one in the Repopulation which I hated (although I haven't tried the revised version of that one). It doesn't really need to do more than point you in the right direction so far as lore, combat and movement are concerned. Plenty of time to work everything else out later, and it doesn't need to be one of the "hand held" games that does everything for you.

Nephys

To be honest, I don't play many games but what you are asking seems like spoon feeding to me. You learn while playing and ESO is largely self-explanatory if you don't expect to be lead by the hand through it.

It is really not too hard to work things out and actually refreshing not to be treated as a 10 year old.

Chelo

The tutorial is about the basic mechanics of ESO, not about how to play MMOs in general.

XxTemppyxX

i agree with the personal experience guy..didnt find any problems with this..sometimes in games like this you do need to read stuff more than once..i do it all the time, even if its just to refresh..its not like cod or battlefield where its just point and shoot..theres alot to this game and it will require you to pay attention..

all in all if your new..take your time, read everything, and dont be ashamed to look it up on the internet there are alot of guides of players explaining the game. that would do wonders

SpartachVIII

I simply thought the tutorial wasn't as good as Oblivion or Skyrim.. but I knew How to play so I was Ok just bored haha

Rosveen

ESO was my first MMO too, but everything you mentioned was intuitive. It probably is to everyone with previous experience with RPGs. Are you new to RPGs, particularly the Elder Scrolls series? Or even to gaming in general? This kind of info would normally be found in the manual - if only manuals hadn't gone the way of the dodo. It can still be found in the game though, in the Help menu. I don't think it's necessary in the tutorial, it would bloat it terribly and make it insufferable for people who already understand the basics.

In any case, you're here, so feel free to ask about the aspects you still have problems with. We'll try to explain what the tutorial didn't.

Gidorick

Rosveen wrote: »

ESO was my first MMO too, but everything you mentioned was intuitive. It probably is to everyone with previous experience with RPGs. Are you new to RPGs, particularly the Elder Scrolls series? Or even to gaming in general? This kind of info would normally be found in the manual - if only manuals hadn't gone the way of the dodo. It can still be found in the game though, in the Help menu. I don't think it's necessary in the tutorial, it would bloat it terribly and make it insuffrable for people who already understand the basics.

In any case, you're here, so feel free to ask about the aspects you still have problems with. We'll try to explain what the tutorial didn't.

I truly lament the lack of manuals in modern games. I remember taking Ultima Underworld's manual to school with me in 5th grade to read it before I started playing. They used to be a thing good enough to collect on their own. Oh well, different times I guess.

Elsonso

First off... welcome to the game!

When the game launched, the tutorial started the player out with a selection of weapons. They revised it to be two handed when they improved the tutorial. I think a sword and shield would have been a better choice if going with a single weapon. It is more universal. Some players would like to return to having more selection, and this makes sense from an MMO and character development perspective. For the purpose of a tutorial, it just makes sense to have one weapon that everyone is using until they exit into the open area. (Besides, just how many different types of weapons does Molag Bal need to stock in his prison?)

I generally stick with the big sword and concentrate my looting time in the prison area to getting some armor. Cheap weapons can be found in the prison area, but they are much easier to come by later. They wanted to give us armor by default in the tutorial and get rid of the rags. I am very happy that they did not go with that. That made less sense to me than having weapons sitting out on some table. Weapons could be stolen from guards, but who outfits their prisoners in armor or their guards in crappy armor only suitable for a prisoner?

Regarding them telling you stuff, I do not recall exactly what they present on the UI for educating the users. It has been a couple months since I went through it and really paid attention to the information being presented. I know that they have a very large set of popups that appear when you do things. I am surprised that none of that came up during the tutorial. I am not sure whether your "NOTHIGN IS EXPLAINED" is an absolute or relative statement. Were things actually not explained, with no attempt to explain, or were things explained, just not to your satisfaction?

The new tutorial is better than the old one. The new one covers lock picking, which I think was an important addition, and does a better job with sneaking. It did simplify the weapon selection, which moves that decision to later in the game. It removed the exploding atronachs, something else I came to realize was a good thing. In general, it is now less easy to die in the Wailing Prison, which is surprisingly important. They cut down on a lot of grind and reduced the running around. The old tutorial was more grindy, particularly when it came to freeing the Prophet. Sadly, they removed like 3/4th of the chests and containers. In the old tutorial, you could spend all day there looting chests. (which is why they removed them, I am sure)

Mitchblue

If you search and grab everything you can you can get just about all weapons to 3 by the time you leave the prison. I usually leave the prison at level 4 and pickup 2H, Bow, Staff and 1-H weapon by the time I'm done. Just don't go quickly..and loot. When she says follow her you don't have to do it right away.

leepalmer95

I love it when people skip half the tutorial and don't read the bash or block mechanics.

2 hours later they come on the forum crying at how some world boss is impossible, knocks them down, self heals and does a big damage attack, all of which can be easily stopped with block and bash.

ghostwise

The tutorial is indeed pretty lame but completely inconsequential in the grand scheme of things you have to learn about as you play the game.

demendred

I miss the old one, where you were able to choose what weapon you wanted to use.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

When the game launched, the tutorial started the player out with a selection of weapons. They revised it to be two handed when they improved the tutorial. I think a sword and shield would have been a better choice if going with a single weapon. It is more universal.

At one point you'd get a single longsword, and then get sent in. I guess they changed it because the block animation on 1h without a shield is derpy... but then why wouldn't they fix that animation?

lordrichter wrote: »

Regarding them telling you stuff, I do not recall exactly what they present on the UI for educating the users. It has been a couple months since I went through it and really paid attention to the information being presented. I know that they have a very large set of popups that appear when you do things. I am surprised that none of that came up during the tutorial. I am not sure whether your "NOTHIGN IS EXPLAINED" is an absolute or relative statement. Were things actually not explained, with no attempt to explain, or were things explained, just not to your satisfaction?

There are on screen pop ups for all kinds of things. The current tutorial (well, as of 1.6 when I ran it on the PTS) is actually pretty solid. That said, it's a bit verbose. So you can easily end up with a wall of text on the side of your screen, and by the time you notice it and start reading it, it's gone.

Paradox

You really need a tutorial for an MMO? Aside from PvP, you'll learn about your resource pools by the end of the tutorial by casting abilities. The skills menu gives you a pop-up tip when you first open it, along with the attributes. Equipping weapon is covered in the first section... Every other thing you mentioned are things that even a small child could learn the basics of, after a few minutes.

While I would agree that they should maybe throw a tip in for sneak damage, that's all. Everything else should be left up to he player, as they're gonna have to think on their own sometimes. Aside from that, this post is just silly, in my opinion.

Korah_Eaglecry

Youre breaking out of prison and youre complaining about the choice of weapon you have to use to fight your way out?

Would you complain about being a rifle guy if you broke out of a prison and took a guards baton too?

newtinmpls

I did prefer the original prison/tutorial; and I get that most people won't bother to read the "explanation menus" as pretty much any time you do something or hit a menu for the first time there is an explanation screen.

The other thing that might be useful in general is to go into gameplay and enable chat boxes, and include NPCs. You will get to see a LOT of interesting comments that you otherwise might miss. On PC anyway, I'm not sure about console.

Pyrocyborg

While I agree that some things could be explained better, or at least showed somewhere (actual damage reduction from armor, for instance), you can learn everything you need by playing the game or if you're in a hurry, reading it online.

By playing the game without reading about anything first, you might do some mistakes, but you'll learn, eventually. Worst case scenario : you'll have to respect at a shrine and pay a small amount of gold.

People these days want everything as fast as possible without any work, and they'll even complain about it (e.g. While grinding a few days ago, a "kid" I played with told me that it was taking SOOOO long to level up and that he thought that the game was too hard in that regard... FYI, we were getting 3 to 4 levels per hour, and our first VR level in less than 3 hours).

Games used to be hard, unforgiving, but maybe that was a bit too much when you lost an entire level (50-60 hours or more of grinding) by being killed by an higher level player. With WoW, the MMO genre became more accessible, but with it, more casual too. People are now used to that kind of ease and it feels that whenever a games doesn't take you by the hand, it's doing a poor job at throwing you in the game's world.

ESO isn't a hard game, quite the contrary. If you already played RPGs or in particular any TES game, you might learn what you need by taking a few moments off and read what you can about skills online and character development. Try to find up to date information, as there is a lot of pre 1.6 information here and there.

What everyone should know though, is that you should always be playing with some kind of food buff and learn about mundus stones. These will greatly increase your character' strength.

danovic

Level 1-50 is all the tutorial you not done yet the real game doesn't even start until veteran levels.

Xexpo

hit esc, check out the menu options ... everything will become clearer, esp controls
there are so many tutorial pop ups the first time you do anything I have to turn them off when i make an alt

Zephyr01

Wait 'till you get on a bit and need to know other things like; Guild Traders or Group Trading, Champion Points and Enlightened, or Repeatable Quests. There's squat, zip, zilch, nada tutorials. It's like stumbling around in total darkness.

I've completed 3 or 4 Group Trades and it was only by sheer luck that I managed it and I still have no idea how I did it. Thank goodness the other person had the patience to wait me out.
Guild Traders? All I know is that you bid on items. I have no idea how you know what you're bidding on, if every item must be auctioned, how you add items, or anything else. It's a complete mystery.
Champion Points I can do, but I have idea what, when, where or why I'm doing it because the rewards seem to be miniscule - and I mean miniscule; like .1% of a point.
'Enlightened' pops up on my screen occasionally but I don't have a clue what it means or what it's for.
And I only learned there were Repeatable Quests 5 minutes ago, so obviously I know nothing about those.

Yep, this game is sadly in need of tutorials.

Epona222

Kylestien wrote: »

Hello. So a little feedback first. I've never played a MMO. So if anything strikes you as obvious, I apologize.

So, here's my experience with this MMO so far in the tutorial. I'm gonna go step by step.

I start off in a Prison cell. Good start. However, I seem to almost miss the person smashing my cell door open, so I don't know I can open it. It does not help that, due to no subtitles when out of direct conversation, I did not get a word of what she says. I open the door, and loot the dead guy. Now, I'm aware that there are many different weapons in the game, but the ONLY thing on this corpse is a Two handed sword. Yeah, I can probably loot some other things later, but where is the choice in what I use at first? Maybe I'm a dagger guy, or a sword and shield guy. I get into my first fight. Strike him down. Simple enough. I level up. And it explains nothing about leveling up. Sure it explains the stats of magic, Health and Stamina, but not what they are and do. And the skill system is hardly explained either. I don't know how to equip or use one. By out right guessing, I manage to find out how to equip one skill. I use it. Except I can't for some reason. I enter the next area. I get told how to block, do a strong attack, and how to interrupt. That bit all good... till I lever up again. I try to put a point in a new skill? Cant do it, not high enough, I try to level up my old skills since there's a three there. Can't do that either. Next area. There are people killing things. I join in for a bit. NOW I can use my skill. Don't know why i could not before. Then I get told i need to kill some Sentinal thing. I sneak up on it after being told to. That's explained, but just how to do it rather then anything else. I kill the thing. I go to a door. We find Cadwell. Funny guy. We go through the other door. I have no idea where to go except to just follow the arrow. Which I do. I avoid the traps. I get to the Prison of the Prophet. I kill a few guys. I activate some things I had no idea how to. They switch. I follow hom through the door. Easily the best part of the Tutorial follows: Molag Bal appears in a cloud of smoke, says we will never leave, and summons a large undead skeleton. Its a pretty cool fight, making you use what you learned by striking and interrupting when it picks you up, against a cool boss. Good part. Then I pick up a Skyshard. NO idea what it does. We leave. I talk to the Prophet's ghost holgram thing. I'm taken to a quest complete screen, except I have no idea about the rewards. Do I pick one? Do I get both? What does a urn do? I stop.

Throughout all of this, i feel like I have been thrown into the deep end of the pool, with the only thing I know for sure how to do is kill. At no point is any of the following explained:

Menu
Looting importance
That I can use other weapons or magic
The skills system
How to level
Why to sneak or how you have been spotted
Crown Store usage (Which, you know, you'd think be a top priority)
How to use skills/how they work
How to equip anything
Really, NOTHING IS EXPLAINED

I'm gonna give ESO a fair chance as a game. Like I said, the boss fight was cool and well done. But I don't get how to do anything, and the tutorial is easily one of the worst I have ever played. EVER.

Re. the bit in bold. I am hard of hearing and the lack of proper subtitles in this game really bugs me.

However, there is a way to turn it on in the chat box, click on the cog at the top right of the chat box and it takes you to an options page where you can turn on NPC dialogue to display in the chat box. It is not ideal, but it is better than nothing (you can also set up multiple tabs with different settings, so you can switch between whatever you need for different occasions, allowing you to just have NPC dialogue when you need to concentrate on NPC chat whilst questing, at the click of a button).

EDIT: That is for PC, it just occurred to me that on console you may have no access to subtitles - if that is the case, it is shocking. I apologise for assuming you were on PC.

Kylestien

I appreciate the feedback and discussion with this and will address some points:

Tutorial being too long: I can understand that. I'm not saying every little things needs to be explained, but I do think it needs to explain more of the basics if that makes sense. Not so much as to be long or handholdy, but enough that a new player does not feel like they have been thrown into the deep end of the pool, fished out and then thrown into the sea.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Youre breaking out of prison and youre complaining about the choice of weapon you have to use to fight your way out?

Would you complain about being a rifle guy if you broke out of a prison and took a guards baton too?

No, I would not complain. But that's because I'd be breaking out of a real prison. In a GAME I think we can allow for some weapon diversity when breaking out. (: Heck, if you need to explain it, have it so that they are all brutally killed in one area and it's discussed that...something... killed these soul shriven. You get a choice of weapon, and it indirectly sets up the presence of a killer threat (in this case the Child Of Bones) in the prison adding tension and livening it up slightly. Everyone wins.

And thank you for the offers of help those who did so. I feel like I'm slowly learning about this game and I appreciate your support. So far I'm likeing it, with the only things I don't being that I seem to get attacked whenever I read in a hostile area (Seriously Frostbite bandits, let me read about your Dagggerfall Contract and Daedra stuff will you? You don't see me interrupting your guard duties. Oh, wait yes you do.) and the fact I can't seem to find any Iron Ore anywhere for my intent of Blacksmithing. I know it's there but I can't seem to tell it apart from the other rocks. which was always a issue for me in Skyrim too.

Rosveen

You can take the Keen Eye passive to make ore glow when you're near.

Epona222

Kylestien wrote: »

I appreciate the feedback and discussion with this and will address some points:

Tutorial being too long: I can understand that. I'm not saying every little things needs to be explained, but I do think it needs to explain more of the basics if that makes sense. Not so much as to be long or handholdy, but enough that a new player does not feel like they have been thrown into the deep end of the pool, fished out and then thrown into the sea.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Youre breaking out of prison and youre complaining about the choice of weapon you have to use to fight your way out?

Would you complain about being a rifle guy if you broke out of a prison and took a guards baton too?

No, I would not complain. But that's because I'd be breaking out of a real prison. In a GAME I think we can allow for some weapon diversity when breaking out. (: Heck, if you need to explain it, have it so that they are all brutally killed in one area and it's discussed that...something... killed these soul shriven. You get a choice of weapon, and it indirectly sets up the presence of a killer threat (in this case the Child Of Bones) in the prison adding tension and livening it up slightly. Everyone wins.

And thank you for the offers of help those who did so. I feel like I'm slowly learning about this game and I appreciate your support. So far I'm likeing it, with the only things I don't being that I seem to get attacked whenever I read in a hostile area (Seriously Frostbite bandits, let me read about your Dagggerfall Contract and Daedra stuff will you? You don't see me interrupting your guard duties. Oh, wait yes you do.) and the fact I can't seem to find any Iron Ore anywhere for my intent of Blacksmithing. I know it's there but I can't seem to tell it apart from the other rocks. which was always a issue for me in Skyrim too.

Yeah unfortunately it can be difficult to read books and letters because sometimes enemies will respawn quickly behind you. I click on them and exit quickly, because:

At the end of the Mage's Guild quest line you get an ability that lets you go back and read any written material you came across in the course of the game so far, or pick up in future, you can view it from your journal. Good reason to spend the occasional session reading through stuff you didn't get to finish reading earlier in the game