Should guards be killable?

M4YON

Yes

Azurulia wrote: »

Guards are laughably easy to escape from. I took a struggling thief under my wing yesterday and showed him the tricks of the trade and he was absolutely baffled about the truth behind guard's mechanics. He never dies to them now.

People that have huge bounties and die to guards are simply doing it wrong. Personally, I think guards need a buff, not to be killable.

Where could i learn such tricks on console? Is there a video tutorial lurking about.

Malediktus

Yes

Of course they should be killable. They should have the same level and difficulty as minor world bosses of the same level.

Azurulia

No

snackrat wrote: »

No, no they should not be.

But they SHOULD not have so many CC abilities, so you can actually get away.

Those abilities are very easy to get away from. you just have to know how.

M4YON wrote: »

Azurulia wrote: »

Guards are laughably easy to escape from. I took a struggling thief under my wing yesterday and showed him the tricks of the trade and he was absolutely baffled about the truth behind guard's mechanics. He never dies to them now.

People that have huge bounties and die to guards are simply doing it wrong. Personally, I think guards need a buff, not to be killable.

Where could i learn such tricks on console? Is there a video tutorial lurking about.

As far as I am aware, there are no videos that show you the in depth arts behind guard mechanics and making stealing very easy. What I know has come from hours of trial and error figuring them out for myself.

Now? I can walk up to a guard, slam them right in the face with a strong attack, get a few more swing sin on them, and /lol at them as I run away while they feebly try to stop me.

It's all about experience and understanding of how they work, that and knowing where the other guards are so you don't accidentally run into a second one. I can escape two guards, but it's very hard to do.

Anywhom, I can think of a whole number of exploitable reasons why guards shouldn't be killable revolving around stealing. It's a long list, but If you think about it for a moment, I think you'll get the idea.

The fact of the matter is, guards are derps and need some buffing so they can actually stop those that know how to get away from them 99% of the time. Them being killable is the last thing we need right now.

NewBlacksmurf

No

Making the guards possible to be killed is to me a bit of an odd concept.
I gather people are looking at the guards as individual people but instead they should be viewed as a system.

It doesn't seem necessary to create 14 to 15 guards per post but when you see one guards, it should be interpreted as many.

When viewed as a system or more than a few it wouldn't make sense to be able to kill them.
Now if you see the guard system as just one or two guards then only from that perspective, they should be killable.

Maybe I have the wrong idea but when the system was explained, the concept was that the guard represents a system and not an individual person.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

No

If you don't want to get killed, don't let them see you stealing in the first place. I always steal in stealth mode even when I know no one is around, because that keeps me in the habit of watching that 'hidden' indicator. That little eye is incredibly useful for keeping your hand out of the cookie jar when someone has you in sight. Also, find a few spots and learn the patrols of guards, citizens, etc. for those spots, don't just run around grabbing everything you see.

UltimaJoe777

Yes

Guards are not killable because criminals need to have a sense of caution about them for committing crimes and dodging the law. However, they can be d**ks and I for one would love to bash in a few of them.

I think a decent tradeoff would be if your heat is high enough Guards spawn on you repeatedly but can be killed and scale to your level. This could even lead to "gangs" committing crimes for the sole purpose of cops vs robbers. We also have the (supposedly) upcoming Enforcers to deal with (wonder how that's gonna work tbh) so yeah Guards should be killable to make things more exciting and fair even if criminally.

Gidorick

Yes

Sadishist wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Yerp... and I'm surprised the poll is so evenly divided on this. However, I do think that they shouldn't be killable before some more complicated systems are put into place. A player who kills a guard needs to pay for that action with more severe consequences than getting KOS or a bounty. I'm talking the stocks or jailtime.

So... yes, but there's more to it then that.

Well murdering civilians is a 1000 bounty right? So think it would make sense if killing town guard to be the same bounty at 1000, or more?

I think 10,000 bounty would be alright for killing a guard.

CapnPhoton

If you really need this, then perhaps they should also be able to call for help like the real police. So then you suddenly have 5 or...12 on you.

nine9six

Yes

Yes. If they can't be killed they all need to be shipped-off to fight Molag Bal. and if I'm "some bad-ass" who killed Molag Bal, why can't I kill someone who's simply doing their job?

"Just checking. Doing my duty..."

*Axe to the head*

Massive bounty added to you.

This is coming from someone who's never stole a single item (that I intentionally meant to steal). I watch people evade the guards all the time, but it'd be fun to watch someone slaughtering one or two while fleeing town.

Azurulia

No

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Guards are not killable because criminals need to have a sense of caution about them for committing crimes and dodging the law. However, they can be d**ks and I for one would love to bash in a few of them.

I think a decent tradeoff would be if your heat is high enough Guards spawn on you repeatedly but can be killed and scale to your level. This could even lead to "gangs" committing crimes for the sole purpose of cops vs robbers. We also have the (supposedly) upcoming Enforcers to deal with (wonder how that's gonna work tbh) so yeah Guards should be killable to make things more exciting and fair even if criminally.

You could always just, oh I dunno... run from them? They are easy to get away from.

There are very good reasons why you cannot kill the guards. Just because you can kill guards and feel like some kind of badass and the like in other mmo's, doesn't mean you can do the same here.

Don't forget. Most other mmo's you cannot steal half of everything that isn't bolted to the floor. Unkillable guards is an extremely important part of the justice system, because if they cannot stop you, you would never have to pay your bounties, because you could just kill them and run off. In regards to them taking a large number of people, Even then the same issue arises. Steal in a group and if someone aggros a guard everyone just blitz it and go about their business.

I think a lot people here voting yes clearly don't "get it" and are looking at this as a "fun" aspect if you ask me.

UltimaJoe777

Yes

Azurulia wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Guards are not killable because criminals need to have a sense of caution about them for committing crimes and dodging the law. However, they can be d**ks and I for one would love to bash in a few of them.

I think a decent tradeoff would be if your heat is high enough Guards spawn on you repeatedly but can be killed and scale to your level. This could even lead to "gangs" committing crimes for the sole purpose of cops vs robbers. We also have the (supposedly) upcoming Enforcers to deal with (wonder how that's gonna work tbh) so yeah Guards should be killable to make things more exciting and fair even if criminally.

You could always just, oh I dunno... run from them? They are easy to get away from.

There are very good reasons why you cannot kill the guards. Just because you can kill guards and feel like some kind of badass and the like in other mmo's, doesn't mean you can do the same here.

Don't forget. Most other mmo's you cannot steal half of everything that isn't bolted to the floor. Unkillable guards is an extremely important part of the justice system, because if they cannot stop you, you would never have to pay your bounties, because you could just kill them and run off. In regards to them taking a large number of people, Even then the same issue arises. Steal in a group and if someone aggros a guard everyone just blitz it and go about their business.

I think a lot people here voting yes clearly don't "get it" and are looking at this as a "fun" aspect if you ask me.

You didn't read my post very carefully did you? If you try to fight off guards long enough odds are you get so outnumbered by the guards swarming you since they according to my idea would spawn right on you out of nowhere that you could eventually die. Also escaping from a guard while inside a building is not as easy.

As far as the reasoning behind people wanting to be able to kill guards it's honestly the same as a real life criminal wanting to kill the cop that busted him. Regardless of whether you escape from a guard or not you get additional bounty for trying which is minor but still incentive to wanting revenge.

Lenikus

Yes

It's kinda annoying to have immortal guards, but yea..

well, you CAN escape them rather easily, but i do feel like they should be able to be 'ambushed' from sneak attacks, at least.

Gidorick

Yes

We've had this discussion before.... check it out here.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/158589/a-guard-should-not-be-invincible-but-the-guard-should-be/p1

@UltimaJoe777, my idea was similar to yours with a killed guard being replace by 2 guards. There would be issues where 20 or 50 players from a guild decide to see what kind of havoc they can wreak.... the system can't be open for abuse.