So.. Are we being Robbed of 15 Attribute points?

NewBlacksmurf

RSram wrote: »

IMO, removing the VR ranks and losing the VR attributes isn't the problem; its how to re-spect the VR gear, items, NPCs, Bosses, and the entire Cadwell's quests.. Removing the VR ranks is easy - just remove it and convert every VR player to level 50, but the player retains the CP earned. That is how the game is heading anyway; once your reach level 50, you start earning CP. Every VR player is just going to have to suck it up and accept the lost of the VR attribute points.

I see what you're saying and yeah...very likely and possible.
I do wonder what its going to be as I believe last quake con they talked about removing VR levels too and....now we are getting 2 more. Maybe it was the one before last because CP's were not here yet

Stravokov

the real question should be: "is ZOS going to remove Vet Ranks like they mentioned in Quakecon". becuase i was under the impression they were being removed, yet here we have 2 more ranks showing up in the DLC.

they keep going back on their word, thus losing the trust of their community. frankly im not purchasing any DLC until Vet ranks are removed, Champion issues are addressed, and PVP lag is stabilized. their focus should be on fixing game breaking problems that will hamper DLCs like IC.

CidxLucy

No one say v14 or v16 will down grade to 50.

i would think because they up it to v16 after vet gone v16 will be 65.

vet 1 = lvl 50
vet 16 = lvl 65

sound better then

vet 1 = 50
vet 14 = 63

firstdecan

When the game first released, you didn't get attribute points for VR levels. I see no problem with going back to that, it makes no difference as long as it's applied equally. If everyone gets the same amount of attribute points per degree of "accomplishment" (so hard to use that word in a video game), what difference does it make?

Rylana

Whole lot of people that failed math in this thread, lolz

OzJohnD

because being a math pedant is more important that the OP's proposal that points will be "lost"

Elsonso

Stravokov wrote: »

the real question should be: "is ZOS going to remove Vet Ranks like they mentioned in Quakecon". becuase i was under the impression they were being removed, yet here we have 2 more ranks showing up in the DLC.

they keep going back on their word, thus losing the trust of their community. frankly im not purchasing any DLC until Vet ranks are removed, Champion issues are addressed, and PVP lag is stabilized. their focus should be on fixing game breaking problems that will hamper DLCs like IC.

As much as I dislike the Veteran Ranks, this is not going back on their word. If they still do the removal, they keep their word. Simple as that. Too soon to tell otherwise and they have recently said they are going away.

This is a mixed message, to be sure. It is evidence that the Imperial City DLC is more important than removing Veteran Ranks. So, they are still in the game, and we all have to deal with them. That includes ZOS. Veteran Ranks have to increase when new areas are added. Itemization is all tied up with them. This is why they will remove them.

If Orsinium is more important than Veteran Ranks, we will see VR 18 before year end.

RSram

CidxLucy wrote: »

No one say v14 or v16 will down grade to 50.

i would think because they up it to v16 after vet gone v16 will be 65.

vet 1 = lvl 50
vet 16 = lvl 65

sound better then

vet 1 = 50
vet 14 = 63

Your solution although would be easy to implement, doesn't solve the VR problem; it just gives the VR levels a different label. Players at level 50 would still need to grind to get to level 63. Players at 50 would still found it difficult to join trials, or do veteran dungeons, and etc. The underlying problems inherent in the game's design, which is the problem, doesn't change.

Here's my take on my ZOS keeps increasing or adding additional VR levels: It's makes it easier to match the difficulty of new content to the difficulty of the new VR level. Its that simple! Think about it; how would the difficultly of the Cadwel's quest line be implemented if your character stayed at level 50 throughout the silver and gold quests?

It's not coincidence that the added VR levels are to coincide with the release of the Imperial City or the Orsinium DLC. The players want more challenging content and this is how ZOS will implement it.

IMO, balancing, fairness, difficulty, and pacing are design issues every MMO must constancy juggle with to make a successful game, and ZOS is still struggling with how to effectively implement theses concepts. Concepts that should have been addressed before the first line of code was written.

Korah_Eaglecry

VR Ranks are also covering around 10 or so Ranks per VR. So that is also an issue because as of level 50 its 1 million XP to get to the next VR rank.

They keep talking about how theyre going to eventually remove it. Eventually. But instead of moving in that direction this DLC with the exclusion of a VR increase. They do the opposite.

So at this point I dont believe they will remove VR Ranks, I think they just havent figured out a way to break it to us that theyve changed their minds. Or that they have no idea how to change it without completely screwing up the whole leveling system.

Mighty_oakk

Oops nm

Bromburak

Evilways wrote: »

So, when they remove Vet ranks in a few months (as per Quakecon 24 July 2016), If im VR 16 and my buddy is VR 1. I have 15 more Attribute points...because, you know, I ground it out and played much longer. Are those points going to be removed from my character for the sake of balance? If so, is there any compensation for those that actually ground out the 16 "extra" levels or am I/we just boned?

From leveling perspective, its not a remove, just a replace with something else that gives players more freedom and is not bound to Cadwell silver and gold zones. I guess they found out that restrictions or mandatory questing is not a good idea for long term goals.

However, they might come up with something new, I guess Champion Levels bound to CPs.
When you have gained a specific amount of CPs you gain 1 Champion Level and this could come with attribute raise too.

It could result in new Champion campaigns too, for overall CP balance in PvP.
Champion Level 1 - X = Campaign 1 , Champion Level x- X = Campaign 2, etc..

Whatever they do, I am certain CPs will have a central role.

rmarsh936

as I have said before, I hope that they do not stick to their word on removing vet ranks, it is good to have something more to work for in improving your character, and I prefer leveling to just getting better gear, and vet ranks are better than the champion system, I don't like that it is account wide and applies to non-vet characters.

Epona222

ZOS_MatM wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

Please keep to the topic and do not resort to personal attacks and be respectful of everyones opinions.

Thank you.

Hi there, is there any possibility that we could get some information about ZOS's plans for the future of Veteran Ranks and the Champion Point system? It was mentioned a while ago that the VR system was going to be ditched, and with the upcoming level cap raise, people now don't know what to expect. I feel that some people are a bit stressed about the lack of ongoing information about a product that in some cases, customers are paying a monthly sub for.

Things may get a little less fraught if customers were kept up to date about the long-term goals of the product that they have paid for (and to which they may still be paying a subscription).

I would like to ask Zenimax to please share their long-term vision for the game, and the leveling system, with their loyal (but at this point, slightly confused) fanbase/paying customers.

Thank you for listening.

stimpy986b14_ESO

The problem with VR ranks isn't the amount of grinding it takes, it's the fact that in order to level you MUST complete the other faction's stories, which SHOULD be entirely optional, and then STILL have to grind. If there was alternative content we could do to level instead of this, then VR would be fine, but every stitch of content they release requires that you already be at max rank.

rmarsh936

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

The problem with VR ranks isn't the amount of grinding it takes, it's the fact that in order to level you MUST complete the other faction's stories, which SHOULD be entirely optional, and then STILL have to grind. If there was alternative content we could do to level instead of this, then VR would be fine, but every stitch of content they release requires that you already be at max rank.

I had reached Vet 14 before I finished the first zone in Cadwell's Gold, in my case, Auridon. If a person wants to avoid the questing in the other two alliances bad enough, they can still find ways to reach max level, that being said, I do think that alternate play styles should be awarded about the same as those who wish to do the story, some prefer PvP, others, things like Trials, others playing multiple characters through all the storylines across alliances, and all of those things should be awarded evenly.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I think that we will actually see V20 before they are removed as it would make the conversion easier to convert. It is an even number and a multiple of ten so they could say 'iron is 1-10', 'steel is 11-20'. Yes, I know that currently it is 1-15 and 16-25 etc.

Pallmor

Don't worry. Vet ranks aren't going anywhere.

Sausage

Why cant they remove them, they aren that big deal anyway. Btw, didnt they already reward people for VRs when they added CP, they gave 75 CP for VR14s, if they want they can give even more compensation for attributes like 2 CP per attribute.

NewBlacksmurf

Sausage wrote: »

Why cant they remove them, they aren that big deal anyway.

I think the levels themselves aren't that big of a deal, but how those levels are ingrained into the rest of the game is a huge deal.

If they just removed the level indicators from all characters and NPCs, that is simple.
Calculating and determining NPC difficulty or player effectiveness would be a big change that goes back to a base of level 50 and then it makes the item and how those item change and affect skills and activities a issue.

Its really an issue where instead of adding CP's the first step should have been to edit or adjust VR to be the CP system. Then another phase and tweaks seemingly would have worked out better. But I guess they didn't want one account to share VR levels

gard

They should just wipe and have us all start over.
Every three months, so that no one ever has an advantage over anyone else.

/sarcasm

Sausage

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Why cant they remove them, they aren that big deal anyway.

I think the levels themselves aren't that big of a deal, but how those levels are ingrained into the rest of the game is a huge deal.

If they just removed the level indicators from all characters and NPCs, that is simple.
Calculating and determining NPC difficulty or player effectiveness would be a big change that goes back to a base of level 50 and then it makes the item and how those item change and affect skills and activities a issue.

Its really an issue where instead of adding CP's the first step should have been to edit or adjust VR to be the CP system. Then another phase and tweaks seemingly would have worked out better. But I guess they didn't want one account to share VR levels

So you're saying Zen is incompetence to remove them, nice. Zen said, they remove them and still people need to over dramatize over this.

booker21

So this means that champion system is also going away?

NewBlacksmurf

Sausage wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Why cant they remove them, they aren that big deal anyway.

I think the levels themselves aren't that big of a deal, but how those levels are ingrained into the rest of the game is a huge deal.

If they just removed the level indicators from all characters and NPCs, that is simple.
Calculating and determining NPC difficulty or player effectiveness would be a big change that goes back to a base of level 50 and then it makes the item and how those item change and affect skills and activities a issue.

Its really an issue where instead of adding CP's the first step should have been to edit or adjust VR to be the CP system. Then another phase and tweaks seemingly would have worked out better. But I guess they didn't want one account to share VR levels

So you're saying Zen is incompetence to remove them, nice.

Not at all what I'm suggesting.

I'm saying that from the outside in, what looks to be a simple task may turn out to be a team effort that takes months to a year+

The champion system took a couple of months even after it was announced so I would think this is going to take longer.
I can only use the term incompetence if I'm qualified and able to do the task myself...I'm sure their talent is a lot higher than my own

Robotmafia

lol who cares about 15 atribute points... for each CP u get around 20 hp/magic/stam.. so if someone has lets say 300 cp the he gets 2k hp/magic/stam and since they will probably continueolsy make it easier to get CPs those 15 atri points really arent an issue..

and if everyone loses those points the field is even so who cares

azoriangaming

Evilways wrote: »

So, when they remove Vet ranks in a few months (as per Quakecon 24 July 2016), If im VR 16 and my buddy is VR 1. I have 15 more Attribute points...because, you know, I ground it out and played much longer. Are those points going to be removed from my character for the sake of balance? If so, is there any compensation for those that actually ground out the 16 "extra" levels or am I/we just boned?

not sure Marty Mcfly but quakecon 2016 is a year away

Sausage

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Why cant they remove them, they aren that big deal anyway.

I think the levels themselves aren't that big of a deal, but how those levels are ingrained into the rest of the game is a huge deal.

If they just removed the level indicators from all characters and NPCs, that is simple.
Calculating and determining NPC difficulty or player effectiveness would be a big change that goes back to a base of level 50 and then it makes the item and how those item change and affect skills and activities a issue.

Its really an issue where instead of adding CP's the first step should have been to edit or adjust VR to be the CP system. Then another phase and tweaks seemingly would have worked out better. But I guess they didn't want one account to share VR levels

So you're saying Zen is incompetence to remove them, nice.

Not at all what I'm suggesting.

I'm saying that from the outside in, what looks to be a simple task may turn out to be a team effort that takes months to a year+

The champion system took a couple of months even after it was announced so I would think this is going to take longer.
I can only use the term incompetence if I'm qualified and able to do the task myself...I'm sure their talent is a lot higher than my own

Seems like it, wasnt VR removal meant to be in 1.6 already. But why on Earth stop now as they have worked so hard so many months.

Like I said, compensations are the normal way how these games deal with this kind of stuff.

starkerealm

booker21 wrote: »

So this means that champion system is also going away?

No. The Champion System was introduced as a replacement for the vet ranks. Of course, here we are six months later with both systems up and running, side by side. Which was never really supposed to happen.

Gidorick

VR1-16 should be converted to level 50-80 with progressive xp requirements... making level 60 requires more xp than level 59 which requires more xp than level 58....you get the idea.

Waffennacht

I like it taking months to a year to max out. I hope if they do remove and do some sort of compensation that my character is high enough to get said compensation

I plan on playing for a very long time. Im hoping we get lots of content in years to come. I want to see like in skyrim DLC the build your own house. Loved that

I bet we wont have a way to earn crowns, but I would like that too.

I like the insane grind fest that rewards people for their devotion and dedication to the game

Evilways

It usually depends on who you ask.

People playing at a slower clip and have yet to reach VR 14 tend to favor the removal of the VR ranks.

People who have one or more VR 14s tend to want to keep them in my experience.