Can we just deal with the more problematic skills instead of Reducing all dmg?

leepalmer95

Crystal blast/fragments does to much dmg with a kb, most sorc's just button mash this.
Wrecking blow, a lot of range dmg + stun/kb, also buff's it's own dmg, sick of being hit by nb's with this skill who then precede to mash it for 8k dmg a hit.
Snipe, need a say more? , highest range, high dmg, easily spammable, easy 1 hits, if the server lags for a second you'll be hit by 4 of these at once.

Can people think of anything else?

AlnilamE

I don't have a 2H, but don't both Crystal Frags/Blast and Snipe have cast times? Which means you can't actually button mash? Well, you can, but it's not going to do much...

leepalmer95

AlnilamE wrote: »

I don't have a 2H, but don't both Crystal Frags/Blast and Snipe have cast times? Which means you can't actually button mash? Well, you can, but it's not going to do much...

you mean the negliable 1s? , if you've ever used the skills the 1s doesn't really do much, still easily spamable, espically if there any server lag they'll all land at once. Also with wrecking block you hit them they get kb, then you wb them again and again giving it 20% more dmg each time as well .

Ahzek

And again none of these would be an issue if we would have to worry about resource management ....
All praise the champion system !!!

gard

Doesn't snipe have like a two second cast time?

leepalmer95

gard wrote: »

Doesn't snipe have like a two second cast time?

i think the first shot is slightly more delayed but the repeated shots seem to be faster

olemanwinter

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Crystal blast/fragments does to much dmg with a kb, most sorc's just button mash this.
Wrecking blow, a lot of range dmg + stun/kb, also buff's it's own dmg, sick of being hit by nb's with this skill who then precede to mash it for 8k dmg a hit.
Snipe, need a say more? , highest range, high dmg, easily spammable, easy 1 hits, if the server lags for a second you'll be hit by 4 of these at once.

Can people think of anything else?

This is very on point. Reactionary policies rarely work well. (Look at government).

Reducing OVERALL damage by half is only going to incentivize more use of the highest damage skills, because damage comes at a higher premium.

Sausage

gard wrote: »

Doesn't snipe have like a two second cast time?

You can hear it coming and just dodge roll away. Press twice A, D, W,S its the problem.

leepalmer95

Sausage wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Doesn't snipe have like a two second cast time?

You can hear it coming and just dodge roll away. Press twice A, D, W,S its the problem.

not when its a group vs group then you can't hear anything, if theres enough people my sound just gives up on ps4.

Also another thing that annoys me is the fact rally or piercing mark doesn't break stealth.

markt84

100% agree with this thread. The are needing damage and spell absorbition, and leaving the issue intact. It's like they have no idea how to fix these problems, so they are just nerfing everyone. How lazy of them

BigTone

The tricky part is you have to think about the PvE aspect as well. Sorcs are currently pulling the lowest dps compared to other classes, so nerfing crystal frags damage would only hurt that further. Personally, I think removing armor/spell penetration would be a much better solution and would make heavy armor a better option for PvP.

On another note, I don't think it's just a few skills that are the problem. TTK is out of control atm. Dawnbreaker, ambush, snipe, frags, proxy det, wrecking blow, the list goes on and on. It is not a problem with a specific skill, it's a problem with game mechanics in general.

markt84

BigTone wrote: »

The tricky part is you have to think about the PvE aspect as well. Sorcs are currently pulling the lowest dps compared to other classes, so nerfing crystal frags damage would only hurt that further. Personally, I think removing armor/spell penetration would be a much better solution and would make heavy armor a better option for PvP.

On another note, I don't think it's just a few skills that are the problem. TTK is out of control atm. Dawnbreaker, ambush, snipe, frags, proxy det, wrecking blow, the list goes on and on. It is not a problem with a specific skill, it's a problem with game mechanics in general.

I think PvP is the best place to see how all the classes kills work, with real people fighting back. So all the nerfs should run through PvP for balancing. PvE players can find ways to work around nerfs and exploits, no one gets hurt, the AI doesn't get upset when getting 1 shot. But I agree the mechanics needs tweeted and zos needs to have hard long conversations about to properly fix the issues, instead of nerfing everything

Maddux

I miss the good old Anarchy Online PvP. It was Fun to stand in your big Group Face to Face with the big Enemy Group at Tarasque or somewhere else, assisting your Targetcallers and trying to focus the enemy Healers and Keyplayers while the Enemy tries the same. These Fights takes 10 or more Minutes sometimes with Retreats, Pushes and you really need to play as a Group to get out alive.
Not that "lets sneak and jump into the unprepared Enemy Group to finish them in 5-10 Seconds" *** that happens in Cyrodiil. This isnt PvP. I was playing so many different PvP Games and i never see something like that in any of that Games if your Group wasnt 5+ Times bigger.
There is to many Burst in this Game and reducing the Dmg is a good Way to let Fights last longer and bring more Tactics into PvP. And with Tactics i dont mean "5 Steel Tornado, 5 Detonation, 5 Meteor, Speedbuff, Barrier, GO".

OrangeTheCat

markt84 wrote: »

snip
But I agree the mechanics needs tweeted and zos needs to have hard long conversations about to properly fix the issues, instead of nerfing everything

I doubt it will ever happen. ZOS seems to operate based on the "Good Enough" principle - it's good enough to keep people playing, attract new players, and keep people spending in the crown store. It's why we still have bugs that were identified in beta. As someone else said in a different thread, ESO is like watching your favorite TV show in a storm: the show cuts in and out and has constant static and you can barely hear anything, but it's your favorite show so you want to keep watching.

Elijah_Crow

These abilities are not broken and do need to be tuned for PVP. In case you didn't know, all damage and healing in PvP is already reduced 20%. This is a move to increase to 50% to give players more time to react in combat and increase time to kill.

This game does not have separate PvP stats or PvP gear so this is the best way to approach a tweak.

leepalmer95

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

These abilities are not broken and do need to be tuned for PVP. In case you didn't know, all damage and healing in PvP is already reduced 20%. This is a move to increase to 50% to give players more time to react in combat and increase time to kill.

This game does not have separate PvP stats or PvP gear so this is the best way to approach a tweak.

Well separate it for pvp then, make the changed part of the battle buff (the 5k hp one) so they only affect pvp, removing stamina regen while blocking is going to hurt pve far more than pvp, and when people spam one ability because just spamming that one ability gives them to highest dps then that needs changing.

Also while were at this i'd like to see a 40% mount movement speed bonus when in cyrodiil added to that pvp buff so the horse simulator is a bit more bearable.

Robbmrp

AlnilamE wrote: »

I don't have a 2H, but don't both Crystal Frags/Blast and Snipe have cast times? Which means you can't actually button mash? Well, you can, but it's not going to do much...

I don't know about snipe, but crystal frags has a chance to proc for an instant cast.

I agree with the OP that they should just address the skills of those that do the highest damage. There's no point in revisiting the setup of every skill or the majority of them for a handful that need to be toned down.

Rinmaethodain

markt84 wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

The tricky part is you have to think about the PvE aspect as well. Sorcs are currently pulling the lowest dps compared to other classes, so nerfing crystal frags damage would only hurt that further. Personally, I think removing armor/spell penetration would be a much better solution and would make heavy armor a better option for PvP.

On another note, I don't think it's just a few skills that are the problem. TTK is out of control atm. Dawnbreaker, ambush, snipe, frags, proxy det, wrecking blow, the list goes on and on. It is not a problem with a specific skill, it's a problem with game mechanics in general.

I think PvP is the best place to see how all the classes kills work, with real people fighting back. So all the nerfs should run through PvP for balancing. PvE players can find ways to work around nerfs and exploits, no one gets hurt, the AI doesn't get upset when getting 1 shot. But I agree the mechanics needs tweeted and zos needs to have hard long conversations about to properly fix the issues, instead of nerfing everything

Lmaorofl

Elijah_Crow

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

These abilities are not broken and do need to be tuned for PVP. In case you didn't know, all damage and healing in PvP is already reduced 20%. This is a move to increase to 50% to give players more time to react in combat and increase time to kill.

This game does not have separate PvP stats or PvP gear so this is the best way to approach a tweak.

Well separate it for pvp then, make the changed part of the battle buff (the 5k hp one) so they only affect pvp, removing stamina regen while blocking is going to hurt pve far more than pvp, and when people spam one ability because just spamming that one ability gives them to highest dps then that needs changing.

Also while were at this i'd like to see a 40% mount movement speed bonus when in cyrodiil added to that pvp buff so the horse simulator is a bit more bearable.

I disagree. Blocking is broken with PvP and PvE. No one should be able to block endlessly.

Your 40% mount movement buff is already there in the alliance skill tree called rapid maneuver.

Rinmaethodain

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

These abilities are not broken and do need to be tuned for PVP. In case you didn't know, all damage and healing in PvP is already reduced 20%. This is a move to increase to 50% to give players more time to react in combat and increase time to kill.

This game does not have separate PvP stats or PvP gear so this is the best way to approach a tweak.

Well separate it for pvp then, make the changed part of the battle buff (the 5k hp one) so they only affect pvp, removing stamina regen while blocking is going to hurt pve far more than pvp, and when people spam one ability because just spamming that one ability gives them to highest dps then that needs changing.

Also while were at this i'd like to see a 40% mount movement speed bonus when in cyrodiil added to that pvp buff so the horse simulator is a bit more bearable.

I disagree. Blocking is broken with PvP and PvE. No one should be able to block endlessly.

Your 40% mount movement buff is already there in the alliance skill tree called rapid maneuver.

I disagree. There is nothing wrong with blocking in PVE. There is also nothing wrong in PVP but glasscannon DPS pvp builds think there is when they find one single person that will dare to not die with one hit. So they made up all sort of reasons to justify this sick nerf and thus cripple every single TRUE tank in eso both in PVP and PVE (true tank, not a pseudo tank that is DPS with sword and board or dps with taunt).

Elijah_Crow

A true tank in PvE should be able to tank significant hits without blocking. You should also be responsible for knowing when to block. I personally look forward to this as it will seperate real tanks from other roles.

markt84

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

These abilities are not broken and do need to be tuned for PVP. In case you didn't know, all damage and healing in PvP is already reduced 20%. This is a move to increase to 50% to give players more time to react in combat and increase time to kill.

This game does not have separate PvP stats or PvP gear so this is the best way to approach a tweak.

Well separate it for pvp then, make the changed part of the battle buff (the 5k hp one) so they only affect pvp, removing stamina regen while blocking is going to hurt pve far more than pvp, and when people spam one ability because just spamming that one ability gives them to highest dps then that needs changing.

Also while were at this i'd like to see a 40% mount movement speed bonus when in cyrodiil added to that pvp buff so the horse simulator is a bit more bearable.

I disagree. Blocking is broken with PvP and PvE. No one should be able to block endlessly.

Your 40% mount movement buff is already there in the alliance skill tree called rapid maneuver.

I disagree. There is nothing wrong with blocking in PVE. There is also nothing wrong in PVP but glasscannon DPS pvp builds think there is when they find one single person that will dare to not die with one hit. So they made up all sort of reasons to justify this sick nerf and thus cripple every single TRUE tank in eso both in PVP and PVE (true tank, not a pseudo tank that is DPS with sword and board or dps with taunt).

Absolutely agree. Blocking works, and didn't need to be changed at all

Lirkin

PVE should not be effected by changes they make for PVP. They should separate them as much as possible.
If they want to reduce damage there are many ways to do that without effecting PVE gameplay.

leepalmer95

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

A true tank in PvE should be able to tank significant hits without blocking. You should also be responsible for knowing when to block. I personally look forward to this as it will seperate real tanks from other roles.

you should go try some of those end game Vet dungeon let me know how you plan to tank when you can't hold block.

markt84

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

These abilities are not broken and do need to be tuned for PVP. In case you didn't know, all damage and healing in PvP is already reduced 20%. This is a move to increase to 50% to give players more time to react in combat and increase time to kill.

This game does not have separate PvP stats or PvP gear so this is the best way to approach a tweak.

Well separate it for pvp then, make the changed part of the battle buff (the 5k hp one) so they only affect pvp, removing stamina regen while blocking is going to hurt pve far more than pvp, and when people spam one ability because just spamming that one ability gives them to highest dps then that needs changing.

Also while were at this i'd like to see a 40% mount movement speed bonus when in cyrodiil added to that pvp buff so the horse simulator is a bit more bearable.

What are temp tanks supposed to do? They only have 1 really good close combat attack in 3 class specific skill lines. I spam the **** out of my spear with a puncture thrown in for mag regen. But now I'm getting a blazing shield nerf, blocking nerf, and a healing nerf (I'm pretty sure). Don't nerf my only good class specific closes attack too. Soon temps will be a junk class instead of a versital one

Lynx7386

I disagree that these are problem skills that should be nerfed all around. Right now, snipe is the only thing that makes bow DPS worth anything, in fact trying to level up a new character with a bow is a serious grind until you get access to snipe. Even then, it doesnt compare dps-wise to melee weapons.

Wrecking blow is the sole source of single target damage for 2handed. Wrecking blow spam on it's own does put out considerable DPS, but it still falls behind dual wield even for single target damage. Nerf it because of pvp and 2handed is back to being the most useless melee weapon in the game.

Crystal fragments is powerful, but it's the only single target ranged damage spell that sorcerors have access to outside of the destruction staff line (and even then force shock is the only other option). Maybe the knockdown could be removed, but I'd probably compensate for that removal with a higher chance to proc, lower cost, or some other effect.


You guys that only focus on pvp seem to forget that every chance has vast repercussions, and not just in your little biome of cyrodiil.

Elijah_Crow

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

A true tank in PvE should be able to tank significant hits without blocking. You should also be responsible for knowing when to block. I personally look forward to this as it will seperate real tanks from other roles.

you should go try some of those end game Vet dungeon let me know how you plan to tank when you can't hold block.

I do it now.

asteldian

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

A true tank in PvE should be able to tank significant hits without blocking. You should also be responsible for knowing when to block. I personally look forward to this as it will seperate real tanks from other roles.

you should go try some of those end game Vet dungeon let me know how you plan to tank when you can't hold block.

To be fair, not one of those vet dungeons need perma blocking to survive. The only place where there will be real issues is axe tanking in AA (for those that cannot kill fast enough to only have 2 axes) and mantikora in SO. Some rounds in vet DSA will also be quite nasty.

DenMoria

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Crystal blast/fragments does to much dmg with a kb, most sorc's just button mash this.
Wrecking blow, a lot of range dmg + stun/kb, also buff's it's own dmg, sick of being hit by nb's with this skill who then precede to mash it for 8k dmg a hit.
Snipe, need a say more? , highest range, high dmg, easily spammable, easy 1 hits, if the server lags for a second you'll be hit by 4 of these at once.

Can people think of anything else?

I always love this criticism. The one truly affective offense the average non-V mage has and "It's too powerful". Oh Waa... Like you're sniping us with your multi hundreds arrows, you're sneak attacks and your ability to simply kill us in one mighty blow of your two-handed weapon. Give a sorcerer a break. At least it slows y'all down long enough for us to be able to run away!

ArvenAldmeri

DenMoria wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Crystal blast/fragments does to much dmg with a kb, most sorc's just button mash this.
Wrecking blow, a lot of range dmg + stun/kb, also buff's it's own dmg, sick of being hit by nb's with this skill who then precede to mash it for 8k dmg a hit.
Snipe, need a say more? , highest range, high dmg, easily spammable, easy 1 hits, if the server lags for a second you'll be hit by 4 of these at once.

Can people think of anything else?

I always love this criticism. The one truly affective offense the average non-V mage has and "It's too powerful". Oh Waa... Like you're sniping us with your multi hundreds arrows, you're sneak attacks and your ability to simply kill us in one mighty blow of your two-handed weapon. Give a sorcerer a break. At least it slows y'all down long enough for us to be able to run away!

I completely agree with you. Sorc is getting so nerfed in next update and they are still crying about them. L2P really... I never had a problem with crystal frag hitting me in pvp, dodge it, break it, block it. Its 1 SECOND cast, its not instant, you see glowing hands and huge frag flying to you. So stop whining about it. Its the only thing sorcerers have to do high damage with (curse takes long time to proc).



Ps: I dont own this picture and dont know who is author but its pretty cool and perfectly fitting.

Rinmaethodain

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

A true tank in PvE should be able to tank significant hits without blocking. You should also be responsible for knowing when to block. I personally look forward to this as it will seperate real tanks from other roles.

Of course, because when a tank is in intense dungeon, with multiple mobs hitting him, tanking main boss, fireworks going off everywhere from AOEs and skills flashing screen and boss, its so easy to time when you can let go of your block or swing in heavy attack for stam regen. Oh did i also mention server hiccups, lags and ping spikes because some PVP groups decided to lag out server in cyrio?

Not to mention that stripping tanks of their right to regen stamina while blocking will make tanking boring. Against popular belief, tanks do not only taunt and hold block. They also sprint to run from AOE circles, dodge roll to avoid big AOEs.

They are usually the last one standing when whole group goes down. They are capable of resing people even if attacked by multiple mobs while standing in AOE. They can survive alone long enough to charge an ultimate with high damage shield (leap or magma shell) and bring whole party back to game.

But not anymore. Thanks to ZOS "0 stamina regen while blocking" now every bit of tank stamina will be precious and spent only on blocking attacks.
No more rolling, no more dodging, no more sprinting to save party members who went down.

Tanks will be now the real boring, taunt and block.

If you think its not true, and you still are a tank then you probably spent last 50 dungeon runs with your special selected group of perfect DPSes and Healers doing your perfect runs and your group chat was full of "FTC report player X on enemy Y DPS OVER 9000!!". And of course when your perfect run didnt go as planned, one dps got killed then everyone on chat started crying "wipe wipe" because its not like, a party can get up in middle of fight and recover from that situation?

Try running a 100% pug with people who never been in that dungeon, see how "boring" tanking is.