Why remove the vet system?

Domander

Why remove it? Would it not be better to add on to the game than to overhaul it (again)?

What benefit would this have?

crytantrevors

None, its just because people who suck at pvp are blaming the vet system for their short commings

phairdon

Considering veteran level are going up to 16, find it odd they're now talking about removing them.

UltimaJoe777

crytantrevors wrote: »

None, its just because people who suck at pvp are blaming the vet system for their short commings

That has nothing to do with it though. The real advantage vets have is champion points which frankly can be used on lower than vet rank alts as well.

Honestly it doesn't matter what Zenimax does people will always find something or another to b*tch about.

Sausage

Player separation is one reason. They can make endgame that fits for all. Sure people can say doesnt CP cause separation too, but thats why catch-up system is coming. Also I cant see them going forever with VRs, as every 2 VR you add, you need to add materials too. Also VRs forces you go do Silver/Gold atm, it wasnt the plan, the plan was just to give for those who prefer to play one char to experience other alliance quests too (Theres two kind of players, those who prefer to make alts and those who play one "main" character) not to make it mandatory for all players. They just pay awfully big price for not having endgame at launch. You would imagine 200+ mill game has endgame but nooo, all money put into journey.

J2JMC

Maybe because people find it boring af to quest through two other faction zones they don't care about in order to reach max level? If I wanted to beat my meat to queen ayren or make "arrow to the knee" jokes all day like everyone else I would've joined those factions.

That being said, I'd rather they keep the vet system and remove cp. I imagine after the change you're still going to have to quest outside of your faction to get cp so removing the vet system doesn't solve my issue. Hopefully the supposed sense of progression that will come along with gaining cp at a quicker rate then vet levels will make it bearable.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Notice that no one cheered or clapped at quakecon when Fior said they were removing vet ranks?

Paulhewhewria

I look at it like this they may remove the vet ranks and increase the xp,but I'm willing to bet that the base/core system for vet ranks will still be around in some way.

Psychobunni

Domander wrote: »

Why remove it? Would it not be better to add on to the game than to overhaul it (again)?

What benefit would this have?

Honestly, I don't mind the vet ranks. I'm used to increasing level caps, having to regear, having the goal posts continually moved further from me with new content.

I don't know what they will replace it with, but I bet the same people that hate Vet ranks will still hate the replacement, and people that liked vet ranks will likely hate it too.

phairdon

Psychobunni wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Why remove it? Would it not be better to add on to the game than to overhaul it (again)?

What benefit would this have?

Honestly, I don't mind the vet ranks. I'm used to increasing level caps, having to regear, having the goal posts continually moved further from me with new content.

I don't know what they will replace it with, but I bet the same people that hate Vet ranks will still hate the replacement, and people that liked vet ranks will likely hate it too.

Easier just to accept we are in for changes, regardless of how we feel about veteran ranks.

Sausage

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Notice that no one cheered or clapped at quakecon when Fior said they were removing vet ranks?

No-one like to lose what they have worked hard on. Just like IC-gears. Im sure we need to grind months to get those and evetually they become old and useless. Its just MMORPG's cycle of life. Maybe it might be a good idea to remove VRs when IC-gears become old, so they need to hear the uproar only once.

Rinmaethodain

OH LOOK:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/144639/why-do-people-want-veteran-ranks-removed/p1

Why do people want to remove vet ranks?

Because they dont know what MMO is

Because they want everything NAO - max lvl in one day

Because they hate the idea someone can have it better if he invests his time into game and instead of also lvling up, they just simply want it taken away from people who earned it

Because they are stubborn and they wont accept that grinding is part of MMO (despite fact that you can reach max lvl without any grinding)

Because they have silly arguments like PVP (battle leveling will work up to max VR now) or ALTs (they are like, want to make ton alts and suddenly, suprise that they have to lvl them up)

So pretty much selfishness and sense of entitlement

skillastat

goodbye non-vet campaign when that happens

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Those who ask for the removal of Vet ranks, are single minded and haven't done the maths.

Assuming the vet ranks are removed and everyone stops at 50, closing the access to Cadwel Gold/Silver (because thats their argument) could they explain to me what about all those Vet people, who went through the content since last year, and have DOUBLE the SPs? Remove their SPs?

How about the achievements? Remove those also?

Faulgor

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Those who ask for the removal of Vet ranks, are single minded and haven't done the maths.

Assuming the vet ranks are removed and everyone stops at 50, closing the access to Cadwel Gold/Silver (because thats their argument) could they explain to me what about all those Vet people, who went through the content since last year, and have DOUBLE the SPs? Remove their SPs?

How about the achievements? Remove those also?

No it isn't.

Sausage

Devs have said themselves, they want to remove them, so why it needs to be brought up. CPs can do all what VRs can do and more. Its some nostalgia stuff, sure we have had adventure with VRs, if you think how it all started, but Im happy they go away.

Domander

Sausage wrote: »

Devs have said themselves, they want to remove them, so why it needs to be brought up. CPs can do all what VRs can do and more. Its some nostalgia stuff, sure we have had adventure with VRs, if you think how it all started, but Im happy they go away.

I don't think they want them removed, I think some players complained about them a year ago and that's the motivation behind removing them.... which is just pointless imo.

It's an mmorpg, it's supposed to take a bit to level. You don't have to do the quests at all, in fact 2 of my v14's were max before getting through silver, and one just after getting to gold.

They just keep making leveling easier and easier, diminishing what those who have already leveled have achieved.

Sausage

Domander wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Devs have said themselves, they want to remove them, so why it needs to be brought up. CPs can do all what VRs can do and more. Its some nostalgia stuff, sure we have had adventure with VRs, if you think how it all started, but Im happy they go away.

I don't think they want them removed, I think some players complained about them a year ago and that's the motivation behind removing them.... which is just pointless imo.

It's an mmorpg, it's supposed to take a bit to level. You don't have to do the quests at all, in fact 2 of my v14's were max before getting through silver, and one just after getting to gold.

Well, unless some people spread rumors here its been confirmed multiple time that they are, Just like Matt said in QuakeCon they still plan to remove them. Speaking of which I'd be great if they posted some offical post to the forums, because not all of us want to watch ESO-live, its just stupid to make us all watch some ESO-live, when they could just make offical post. Yeah, next Road Ahead would be awesome.

SkepticalGlenn

I personally have little to know idea what veteran ranking is or how it works, I've only had the game for about 2 weeks. I'm lvl 27 now though and can say that I feel like it takes a while to lvl up, especially seeing as how i'm less then half way. I like that though. Because I come from destiny where everyone is max level and it's more rare to see someone who is low level then someone who is max level. I don't feel accomplished when lvl ups are handed to you. So I think the lvl up system in this game is great. If veteran ranking is some sort of prestige lvl up form which I think it is then I don't see a problem with that. If someone wants to explain what it is and how it works that would be cool.

J2JMC

SkepticalGlenn wrote: »

I personally have little to know idea what veteran ranking is or how it works, I've only had the game for about 2 weeks. I'm lvl 27 now though and can say that I feel like it takes a while to lvl up, especially seeing as how i'm less then half way. I like that though. Because I come from destiny where everyone is max level and it's more rare to see someone who is low level then someone who is max level. I don't feel accomplished when lvl ups are handed to you. So I think the lvl up system in this game is great. If veteran ranking is some sort of prestige lvl up form which I think it is then I don't see a problem with that. If someone wants to explain what it is and how it works that would be cool.

It takes approximately 2,000,000 xp to level from 1 to 50 in the faction of your choice.

It takes 13 million xp to level from vet1 to vet 14 while having to quest in two other factions you did not choose to be a part of.

What gets me is the quests are not amazing enough to justify having to go through ALL of them to reach max level. If we were talking swtor level of quests I wouldn't mind. I actually enjoyed the various stories they had. Of course, if you like grinding mobs, it's a non-issue.

Agobi

SkepticalGlenn wrote: »

I personally have little to know idea what veteran ranking is or how it works, I've only had the game for about 2 weeks. I'm lvl 27 now though and can say that I feel like it takes a while to lvl up, especially seeing as how i'm less then half way. I like that though. Because I come from destiny where everyone is max level and it's more rare to see someone who is low level then someone who is max level. I don't feel accomplished when lvl ups are handed to you. So I think the lvl up system in this game is great. If veteran ranking is some sort of prestige lvl up form which I think it is then I don't see a problem with that. If someone wants to explain what it is and how it works that would be cool.

Just a heads up...you are not even halfway through one third of the levelling

So yea,it does take a while to level up

Rinmaethodain

J2JMC wrote: »

SkepticalGlenn wrote: »

I personally have little to know idea what veteran ranking is or how it works, I've only had the game for about 2 weeks. I'm lvl 27 now though and can say that I feel like it takes a while to lvl up, especially seeing as how i'm less then half way. I like that though. Because I come from destiny where everyone is max level and it's more rare to see someone who is low level then someone who is max level. I don't feel accomplished when lvl ups are handed to you. So I think the lvl up system in this game is great. If veteran ranking is some sort of prestige lvl up form which I think it is then I don't see a problem with that. If someone wants to explain what it is and how it works that would be cool.

It takes approximately 2,000,000 xp to level from 1 to 50 in the faction of your choice.

It takes 13 million xp to level from vet1 to vet 14 while having to quest in two other factions you did not choose to be a part of.

What gets me is the quests are not amazing enough to justify having to go through ALL of them to reach max level. If we were talking swtor level of quests I wouldn't mind. I actually enjoyed the various stories they had. Of course, if you like grinding mobs, it's a non-issue.

At the same time, before you had a whole zone to hit around 8 lvls so your home faction would take you from 1 to VR1

When you hit VR then yeah zone is dedicated to one whole veteran rank. This way each faction will give you 5 full VR so at the end of gold you will end up at VR10/11 exploring all content and with 0 grinding.

The exp is there. Its given to players. If they chose not to get it, well then, they kind of lose right to complain about "VRs being too long and hard to get". Same goes if they deny grinding. Grinding is, will be and was always part of MMO.

ontheleftcoast

Sausage wrote: »

Devs have said themselves, they want to remove them, so why it needs to be brought up. CPs can do all what VRs can do and more. Its some nostalgia stuff, sure we have had adventure with VRs, if you think how it all started, but Im happy they go away.

The real value VR gives is separating the lower level endgame armor/weapons/etc. from the higher ones. Diablo III made this mistake, as soon as you hit level 60 you could wear/wield the best armors/weapons in the game. It meant that none of the intermediate armors, etc. (level 60, 61, and 62) were worth having and everyone clamored for the top of the line (level 63) gear. It was a total ***. So unless the developers at ZOS want to repeat that mistake they're going to have to find a way to keep former VR1's from having the new VR16 gear. Or all the intervening materials, etc. will become worthless in a heartbeat.

And, if they do find a way to differentiate the gear then all they've done is replaced the name "Veteran Rank" with some other term. Which will amount to a big, fat waste of their time and ours as well.

Magdalina

Because people hate it, especially those who have been here a while.
Now if you want to ask why people hate it(which we already have 100500 topics on)...
1)it feels wrong. 1-50 makes sense. You progress through the game, help your chosen faction and at the same time slowly work towards defeating Molag Bal. Then you defeat Molag Bal, save the world, you feel accomplished(would feel even more accomplished if Molag Bal was actually a challenge but whatever) and are ready to delve into that endgame...oh wait, you gotta quest through other alliances' zones first. That...kind of destroys the whole feeling of progress. You helped your alliance? Too bad, now help its enemy against it. You defeated Molag Bal? Nevermind, let's send you back in time to where he's still there.
2)it takes too long. Perhaps if it felt like *meaningful* progression...when I'm leveling alts, 1-50 is boring but bareable. There're waypoints like main quests, Mages/Fighters guild quests etc...v1+ is a nightmare.
3)some people roll alts. Considering last content update was in like November I believe, a LOT of people roll alts to experience other classes/roles etc(for lack of anything better to do). It's horrible to roll alts with it, and you aren't even gonna see anything new if you make a different alliance's character...

I think Cadwell's Silver and Gold should be optional. I did enjoy them on my first character, but forcing players through them for 2/3 of their leveling(and ZOS keeps stubbornly nerfing all the grinding obviouslyb trying to *force* us to quest for 108373634th time) is just inhuman.
At this point I'd be fine if all the vet levels were just removed, period, and I'd be lvl 50(with all my legendary v14 gear and stuff, and 14 less attribute points, I'd be fine with that).

To be fair though, I think they should've been removed long ago. By now those who were ticked off by it the most have simply left and won't come back, those of us who stayed will grit our teeth and grind our 5th alts anyway and newer players are still relatively okay with it. It seems kinda weird and confusing to release it on consoles with vet leveling, raise vet cap to 16 and THEN remove it.

J2JMC

MaximusDargus wrote: »

At the same time, before you had a whole zone to hit around 8 lvls so your home faction would take you from 1 to VR1

When you hit VR then yeah zone is dedicated to one whole veteran rank. This way each faction will give you 5 full VR so at the end of gold you will end up at VR10/11 exploring all content and with 0 grinding.

The exp is there. Its given to players. If they chose not to get it, well then, they kind of lose right to complain about "VRs being too long and hard to get". Same goes if they deny grinding. Grinding is, will be and was always part of MMO.

Never said the xp wasn't there. My frustrations are how it is obtained. Like I said in an earlier post, them removing vet ranks does not solve my particular issues. I should not have to quest through story lines I did not choose to reach max level. This is why I bought up swtor. In swtor, I only had to play the story of the class(read as faction) I picked before I could start participating in high level content. Didn't have to do the stories I had no interest in. They made sure that the content I was interested in satisfied the requirements to get to max level.

Grinding can be a part of any game that has levels. Players who don't care for the content and want to reach max level as quickly as possible will grind. I have no interest in using aoe until my fingers bleed. So I'm playing through the trash AD storyline and will soon be on to the trash ep storyline, most likely by tomorrow. Doesn't mean I like it. I'd like to get more experience with various dungeons, pvp, craglorn, trials and actually have fun with the game. I really enjoy the dungeons and pvp. Before I can really get to the high level stuff, I have to sit through bad quests that I did not initially choose in the first place.

I will say, leveling through the extra zones does offer a lot of time to get familiar with the game and your class. It's the only merit going through the zones has. However, each faction should've had their own quests throughout all the zones. I find myself skipping through all the AD dialogue because I have zero interest in it. If they felt the need to have me quest through all the zones I would've liked them to continue the daggerfall storyline.

As I said before, hopefully the supposed "sense of progression" the cp system will bring when replacing the vet ranks makes going through terribad quests more enjoyable. Though I'd much rather keep vet ranks than the cp system. Maybe I'm missing something.

ColoursYouHave

I don't think the vet ranks themselves are the real issue. I think the issue is the amount of time required and lack of options to reach the VR level cap. As it stands right now, the only viable options to reach VR14 in a reasonable amount of time are to either complete Gold/Silver, or grind mobs. While some people don't mind grinding mobs, obviously there are many players would simply quit playing before they decided to grind for hours. That leaves completing the other two alliances as the only option to reach max level. While I do think it is a nice idea to allow players to do the quests for the other two factions, I think essentially requiring it was a big mistake. For those who become very attached to their starting alliance, it becomes very immersion breaking. For those who like to create multiple characters on different factions, or just multiple characters in general, it becomes more of a grind than actually questing and exploring, since you have to do every single faction's story for every single character just to reach endgame. Want to have one of each class to be able to play with? Well, you've got to finish each factions story 4 times, for a total of 12 factions just for 4 characters. This becomes very tiresome and repetitive the second time through, so I can't even imagine how people with 4+ characters feel. Realistically, I don't think people care that there is a new type of level in Vet Ranks after reaching level 49. I think people just don't want to finish their starting faction's story only to realize they're not even a third of the way to reaching endgame. This could easily be solved without the hassle of removing Vet Ranks by simply lowering the amount of exp to get each rank (and no, slightly lowering the exp required for each rank then adding two ranks doesn't count), and providing players with more options to level up through the vet ranks. Heck, I think people would be a lot happier even with the same amount of exp required to reach VR14, but scaling the exp required so VR2 requires more experience than VR1, VR3 requires more than VR2, etc. That way it can be a lot quicker for players to level up to the middle VR levels where they can actually be somewhat effective in PVP while still making it so that reaching the level cap can't be done too quickly.

Tolmos

I personally figured the goal of removing Veteran Ranks is that they are an abnormal progression and confuse new players. I don't imagine the level gap between level 50 and VR14 will disappear, I just imagine they will call the entire progression something else (like levels 51-80 or something instead).

New players come in and talk about hitting level 50 like that's endgame, but it's not. Not even close. That's fine, but it just confuses them and can lead to some pretty weird disappointment

swanvalkyrie

crytantrevors wrote: »

None, its just because people who suck at pvp are blaming the vet system for their short commings

THANKYOU!!!!!


I don't do PvP much because of all the higher levels and I know I would suck.... soooo im enjoying doing the Vet Rankings atm, and no level grinding, just questing!

Forestd16b14_ESO

Again I don't care about vet being removed or the whole system ingeneral as long as I get to keep the 14 attribute and skills points. If they remove it and increase the cap and we can get more points well that's a giant positive for me. Cause they said they are removing it shortly after Orsinium but they never gave a level cap so I'm kinda worried that they'll just push it back to level 50. But I wouldn't mind they increase it to level 81 like Skyrim pre legendary patch or even level 100 that just means more attribute and skill points.

swanvalkyrie

Ok my dilemma with all this is....

They are increasing vet rankings, and then removing them. Increasing the vet rankings because they have to with the new DLC coming out -- I was told, otherwise they would have to hold off on the DLC.

What would happen when all vets are capped back down to level 50. What of all that time and effort and CP? Like seriously? How do you reward people for doing all the hard work just to say then "we've cut your level back down, have fun with that.... oh and to say sorry, we've added 1000 crowns to your crown shop". Oh yay. Does anyone else have the same point of view as me??

Audigy

Sausage wrote: »

Player separation is one reason. They can make endgame that fits for all. Sure people can say doesnt CP cause separation too, but thats why catch-up system is coming. Also I cant see them going forever with VRs, as every 2 VR you add, you need to add materials too. Also VRs forces you go do Silver/Gold atm, it wasnt the plan, the plan was just to give for those who prefer to play one char to experience other alliance quests too (Theres two kind of players, those who prefer to make alts and those who play one "main" character) not to make it mandatory for all players. They just pay awfully big price for not having endgame at launch. You would imagine 200+ mill game has endgame but nooo, all money put into journey.

Well,

MMOs usually don't have an Endgame, as when you would reach the "end" in an MMO, then the MMO has failed. MMO´s are never ending stories, quests, dungeons or grinds. All of this ESO seems to offer, I still have not reached the "end", while I did so at WOW, GW2 within days.

Personally I hope that the VR´s will stay, its nice to know that there is always something new coming, something to improve my characters.