Please don't bring non-vet style "battle levelling" to vet campaigns!

CP5

Joy_Division wrote: »

...
2. You have it backwards. 95% of the gear in this game is junk and everyone stacks spell/weapon damage. In fact, only through battle-leveling is some of this gear actually worth it. In BwB, I actually have to weigh the advantages of certain 5 piece bonus like fiord's Legacy or hide of the Werewolf since these become viable options via battle-leveling.
...

I have 2 characters and each uses a 5 piece of both of those sets. I've even spent a lot of time running around to all the merchants looking for non-vet armor sets because they are usable and interesting. There's something to be said for making all of the armor sets in the game worth looking at.

Truewavesound

CP5 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

...
2. You have it backwards. 95% of the gear in this game is junk and everyone stacks spell/weapon damage. In fact, only through battle-leveling is some of this gear actually worth it. In BwB, I actually have to weigh the advantages of certain 5 piece bonus like fiord's Legacy or hide of the Werewolf since these become viable options via battle-leveling.
...

I have 2 characters and each uses a 5 piece of both of those sets. I've even spent a lot of time running around to all the merchants looking for non-vet armor sets because they are usable and interesting. There's something to be said for making all of the armor sets in the game worth looking at.

Well the thing is, what it does (in non-vet) and will do (in vet) is make only those sets with decent 5piece bonuses viable, which i think is a shame. So really it is probably reducing the number of sets we consider, as now we can look at ALL the set bonuses, not just the 5p.

EDITED: Realised you meant you used Werewolf and Fjord set. Nice % based 5piece bonuses.

CP5

Truewavesound wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

...
2. You have it backwards. 95% of the gear in this game is junk and everyone stacks spell/weapon damage. In fact, only through battle-leveling is some of this gear actually worth it. In BwB, I actually have to weigh the advantages of certain 5 piece bonus like fiord's Legacy or hide of the Werewolf since these become viable options via battle-leveling.
...

I have 2 characters and each uses a 5 piece of both of those sets. I've even spent a lot of time running around to all the merchants looking for non-vet armor sets because they are usable and interesting. There's something to be said for making all of the armor sets in the game worth looking at.

Well the thing is, what it does (in non-vet) and will do (in vet) is make only those sets with decent 5piece bonuses viable, which i think is a shame. So really it is probably reducing the number of sets we consider, as now we can look at ALL the set bonuses, not just the 5p.

I applaud you for making it work though. Which sets do you use?

Aside from Fiord's for the speed buff, Werewolf for the ultimate generation I don't recall off the top of my head since I haven't been on recently. However there is the problem that many sets are found only in a small level range, but any set found in a pre v1 range is usable which gives sets most people would level out of before finishing it a use.

Zos does seem to love adding more sets to vet only ranges however so a large number of sets aren't usable in BWB. I would hope that Zos adds some of the vet only sets to non vet level ranges and also looks at all the 5 piece bonuses and makes all of them viable, even with battle leveling. I admit looking only for a few select bonuses (like % healing received or similar 2-4 piece bonuses) does take some getting used to; it would be interesting if they made them have some influence on battle leveled characters, without completely governing how powerful your character is.

SturgeHammer

Truewavesound wrote: »

SturgeHammer wrote: »

You know you could just not play battle-level campaigns, right? There is a large enough portion of the pvp community that want it to warrant having a campaign for it, doesn't mean you have to play there.

Sturge, read the topic.... soon they will ALL be battle levelled.

I see now, you are referring to the increase in the battle-level threshold not the recent discussion of having an all battle-leveled campaign. I do apologize for my aggressive reply, I got confused because battle level can also refer to scaling down of powerful characters, which can happen in Non-Vet and would cause a list of frustrations very similar to what you mentioned.

Now that I am on topic, I think you will see people turning off their Battle-Leveled stats as early as vet 5 so that their damage, and more importantly, their regen rates are not getting nerfed by the battle-leveling.

I personally have lobbied for a change in the way battle leveling effects gear by reducing the the battle leveled base stats and scaling the gear itself up to the Battle-level and allow it to contribute a portion (maybe 50%) of its stats to the character. I think that change would at least make itemization while battle leveled less trivial.

EDIT: To elaborate on proposed changes.
-Health, magikca, and stam would be battle leveled to vet 14
-Base resistances, weapon damage, spell damage, etc. would be scaled up to be equal to about 50% of the potency of associated vet 14 green gear.
-All gear is scaled up to vet 14 while equipped and 50% of their stats are contributed to your character.

Truewavesound

Hi Sturge. sorry for my aggressive reply also, I have let myself get wound up by some real derps, like a complete nub

My concern will be that if they follow the lead they have established on bwb i.e. the stats when battle levelled are excessively high compared to even a very well geared player with it switched off. So there will never be a point when it will be better to turn it off and actually bother to gear.

Re: Your final point, i think i sort of touched on this. The current "Battle Level" system is so lazily designed it's an insult. Ideally they would have buffed lower levels somehow while still retaining the importance of gearing properly. Like in wow, where in pvp bgs, your gear is scaled to the top level in that battle.

As it stands, it's a real workaround/cut corner.

SirAndy

Joy_Division wrote: »

1. Irrelevant ...
2. You have it backwards ...
3. The disadvantage between a vr1 and max level has been noted many times since BETA ...

I'm all for the new VR battle leveling.

Cyrodiil has turned into a AP farming gank fest for CP hording macro kiddies ...

Truewavesound

SirAndy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

1. Irrelevant ...
2. You have it backwards ...
3. The disadvantage between a vr1 and max level has been noted many times since BETA ...

I'm all for the new VR battle leveling.

Cyrodiil has turned into a AP farming gank fest for CP hording macro kiddies ...

I'm not sure what part of that you think this change is going to affect matey

SirAndy

Truewavesound wrote: »

I'm not sure what part of that you think this change is going to affect matey

I'm not your mate ...

Truewavesound

I'm not your pal, bud...

k2blader

"Identical stats." Health, magicka, stamina pools (without food/drink). I think that's the main advantage. I am curious what Zeni will set those at. But I doubt other stats will be great-- those will likely be below average.

Zeni should clearly spell out what the settings will be. Doubt that'll happen but til then I'm guessing vet leveling will likely benefit lower level vets, say VR1 thru VR10-ish who don't want to spend much gold on their gear as they level. Nothing wrong with that. They'll still be weaker in skill points, and newer players will be way weaker in experience.

Phoenix99

Truewavesound wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

While we are at it, we might as well do battle leveling for pve as well. Vet DSA and trails for people that don't want to grind and who want instant gratification. That's what this new generation is all about, right...

Precisely, eejit. I don't wanna level, i want all of it now!

Phoenix99 wrote: »

Truewavesound wrote: »

This will mean that all V1-V13s will have almost identical stats in campaigns and your gear will make almost no difference. Reasons not to bring this in:

- This will ruin a large part of the game for us pvpers who like to pvp while we level. Many of us love the gearing "mini-game" (see pages and pages on the internet of sites dedicated to gearing your character in clever and innovative ways) - please don't take this away from us!
- 95-99% of V1-V13 gear that has been so lovingly designed, stat balanced, weighted etc by ZOS will become almost useless to large parts of the community and so remain unused/become obsolete - this is sad!
- I don't see any real demand for this change from players and I am struggling to understand any rationale behind this proposed change.

I can somewhat understand the reasoning for this style of battle levelling in the non-vet campaign but it just makes no sense in vet campaigns. Please don't do this!

Yet for some reason the non-vet campaign is regarded the most fun by most players... Coincidence?

Vet campaign is most fun because TTK is down to a reasonable level and there is less zerging.

I think you confused campaigns... TTK down to a reasonable level? Wut? less zerging in vet camps? Wut x2?

SirAndy

Phoenix99 wrote: »

Truewavesound wrote: »

Vet campaign is most fun because TTK is down to a reasonable level and there is less zerging.

I think you confused campaigns... TTK down to a reasonable level? Wut? less zerging in vet camps? Wut x2?

TTK is only low if you're a fully decked out VR14 with plenty of CP points and a full set of good gear and you happen to run into a lower VR player.

TTK is abysmal for anyone who isn't VR14 yet, especially so when you run into one of those macro exploiting "highly skilled" animation canceling 1 shot wonders or shield stacking perma tanks.

Poxheart

Truewavesound wrote: »

Tee hee. ToRelax, you need to read up on this obviously. I'll repeat - in battle levelling your stats (stam, health, magicka, spell damage, weapon damage) and armor/spell resist are FIXED, kiddo. You can go naked or wear full gold sets, they will be the same. The only effect gear has is SOME 5 piece bonuses work and SOME of the traits work (not infused, but divines, well fitted do and 1 or 2 others).

If you're gonna spout off like a goon, get your facts right first...

Like i said, you could have just logged onto BwB and seen. It's quite enjoyable when arrsey smart asses are so sure they are right when they are wrong. This isn't a matter of opinion, but game mechanics...and if you are trolling, well well played, sir.

ToRelax is right, you really don't have a clue. Your assertions in the first paragraph are incomplete. Perhaps if you spent more time investigating the set bonuses instead of QQing you'd see that my original response to you is correct.

And before you tell me to log into BWB to check, this is me shortly after reset a few weeks back:

Truewavesound

Phoenix99 wrote: »

Truewavesound wrote: »

Eejit1331 wrote: »

While we are at it, we might as well do battle leveling for pve as well. Vet DSA and trails for people that don't want to grind and who want instant gratification. That's what this new generation is all about, right...

Precisely, eejit. I don't wanna level, i want all of it now!

Phoenix99 wrote: »

Truewavesound wrote: »

This will mean that all V1-V13s will have almost identical stats in campaigns and your gear will make almost no difference. Reasons not to bring this in:

- This will ruin a large part of the game for us pvpers who like to pvp while we level. Many of us love the gearing "mini-game" (see pages and pages on the internet of sites dedicated to gearing your character in clever and innovative ways) - please don't take this away from us!
- 95-99% of V1-V13 gear that has been so lovingly designed, stat balanced, weighted etc by ZOS will become almost useless to large parts of the community and so remain unused/become obsolete - this is sad!
- I don't see any real demand for this change from players and I am struggling to understand any rationale behind this proposed change.

I can somewhat understand the reasoning for this style of battle levelling in the non-vet campaign but it just makes no sense in vet campaigns. Please don't do this!

Yet for some reason the non-vet campaign is regarded the most fun by most players... Coincidence?

Vet campaign is most fun because TTK is down to a reasonable level and there is less zerging.

I think you confused campaigns... TTK down to a reasonable level? Wut? less zerging in vet camps? Wut x2?

This was my fault: a typo. It should have read NON-vet campaign...is most fun because TTK is down to a reasonable level and there is less zerging.

Truewavesound

Wow, this issue really gets people riled eh? Anyone who doesn't believe me about gear having little to no effect (except 5 piece bonuses and some traits), feel free to carry on ignoring it, i really don't care. I have given you the info and you can use it or not.

Good to see some healthy and mature discussion here, amongst most who have commented.

Gonna take a look at my 32 stam DK and see if I can get him some nice 5 pieces. Any other set recommendations?

ToRelax

Truewavesound wrote: »

Wow, this issue really gets people riled eh? Anyone who doesn't believe me about gear having little to no effect (except 5 piece bonuses and some traits), feel free to carry on ignoring it, i really don't care. I have given you the info and you can use it or not.

Good to see some healthy and mature discussion here, amongst most who have commented.

Gonna take a look at my 32 stam DK and see if I can get him some nice 5 pieces. Any other set recommendations?

Drop sets: Alessian Order, Hide of the Werewolf
Crafted sets: Night's Silence, Oblivion's Foe, Armor of the Seducer

Poxheart

Truewavesound wrote: »

Wow, this issue really gets people riled eh? Anyone who doesn't believe me about gear having little to no effect (except 5 piece bonuses and some traits), feel free to carry on ignoring it, i really don't care. I have given you the info and you can use it or not.

Good to see some healthy and mature discussion here, amongst most who have commented.

Gonna take a look at my 32 stam DK and see if I can get him some nice 5 pieces. Any other set recommendations?

The problem I have with your assertions is that you are only partially informed.

TheGrandAlliance

Truewavesound wrote: »

Who's with me on this?

WEll being that I am under the opion that Vetern Ranks destroyed PvP, was untested (a late game addition by Zenimax development process), and causes more problems then its worth battle lvlign itsn't a bad idea.


ANd remember... it only adjusted the base stats... not the gear stats. Play Guild Wars 2 to get an idea. Someone who isn't lvl 80 (max there) doesn't stand a chance who is lvl 80.

Sausage

Its already live on PC as far I know. Nothing is gonna change, new IC gears and growing CP-gap makes sure we vet kill the noobs.

Truewavesound

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Truewavesound wrote: »

Who's with me on this?

WEll being that I am under the opion that Vetern Ranks destroyed PvP, was untested (a late game addition by Zenimax development process), and causes more problems then its worth battle lvlign itsn't a bad idea.


ANd remember... it only adjusted the base stats... not the gear stats. Play Guild Wars 2 to get an idea. Someone who isn't lvl 80 (max there) doesn't stand a chance who is lvl 80.

Hi mate. At the risk of repeating myself yet again, i think you need to read up on battle levelling. It fixes (most of) your stats, not base stats, but actual stats, as discussed above. Please read the earlier posts. Gear does not affect health,stam,magicka and armor.spell res.

You see, this is half the problem. Most of the player base has no idea how "battle levelling" zos-style works.

Guild wars has nothing to do with this. Are you drunk? You type like I do

Truewavesound

Sausage wrote: »

Its already live on PC as far I know..

No. Just no. Do you read even the OP before commenting?

MrGhosty

I guess I'm not seeing where you have all this information from, Battle leveling just appears to up the base resource pools. Beyond that I don't recall ever seeing a difference in all the other stats. Based on what I've seen and the only bit of vague information regarding the extra battle leveling I don't see how gear is going to be affected one way or the other. Always happy to be proven wrong though (that means I would like actual facts rather than your assertion that really, you are correct, trust you) Also, as you are the one making the claim gathering and presenting the information about the issue is beholden on you not the part of your readers. Anytime I see a "go just look for yourself" posted in threads like these I immediately assume that person doesn't care enough about the subject to which they are complaining and tend to then think "then why should I care?"

Back to your point, I don't think it is going to work the way you think it's going to work so I would love to see what your sources are. Cheers mate.

Cathexis

Boohoo I want to have an unfair advantage against other people who can't play as much as me boohoo

Truewavesound

MrGhosty wrote: »

I guess I'm not seeing where you have all this information from, Battle leveling just appears to up the base resource pools. Beyond that I don't recall ever seeing a difference in all the other stats. Based on what I've seen and the only bit of vague information regarding the extra battle leveling I don't see how gear is going to be affected one way or the other. Always happy to be proven wrong though (that means I would like actual facts rather than your assertion that really, you are correct, trust you) Also, as you are the one making the claim gathering and presenting the information about the issue is beholden on you not the part of your readers. Anytime I see a "go just look for yourself" posted in threads like these I immediately assume that person doesn't care enough about the subject to which they are complaining and tend to then think "then why should I care?"

Back to your point, I don't think it is going to work the way you think it's going to work so I would love to see what your sources are. Cheers mate.

No that is not how it works at all. My "sources" are playing in the non-vet campaign with battle leveling now. Plus you could always do a quick google search and see for yourself. Gotta love a mouthy bad attitude arguing a wrong point when he could check easily for himself that he is wrong.

"I see no ships" Tee hee

Lava_Croft

Contrary to what one might think when looking at all the videos posted here in which veterans beat up newbies, I firmly believe most PvP players like a good fight.

Battle levelling for VR1-VR13 players will increase the chances of a good fight, while also not completely screwing over someone who went from L49 to VR1, as is the case now.

IxSTALKERxI

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Contrary to what one might think when looking at all the videos posted here in which veterans beat up newbies, I firmly believe most PvP players like a good fight.

Battle levelling for VR1-VR13 players will increase the chances of a good fight, while also not completely screwing over someone who went from L49 to VR1, as is the case now.

Why does every post you make hate on players who make videos? lol

PainfulFAFA

You take away battle leveling then theres no reason for anyone to start an alt.

Im playing my V4 Templar atm and i get 1 shot by frags,ballistas,snipes,wrecking blow... etc.
Gear absolutely makes a difference since v14 gears give wpn/spell dmg boosts, recovery boosts, and many other set bonuses that arent easily available to lowbie toons.

TRY PLAYING a lowbie alt in PVP with battle leveling and then play w/o battle leveling. You will realize how battle level is neccessary for lowbies because of gear descrepancies.

On my v14, anything below v12 are too easy to kill so if ur having trouble dealing with lowbies then the issue is pretty obvious.

Lava_Croft

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Contrary to what one might think when looking at all the videos posted here in which veterans beat up newbies, I firmly believe most PvP players like a good fight.

Battle levelling for VR1-VR13 players will increase the chances of a good fight, while also not completely screwing over someone who went from L49 to VR1, as is the case now.

Why does every post you make hate on players who make videos? lol

Because those videos are the equivalent of an MMA fighter going up against someone who just had his first lesson of Judo.

MrGhosty

Truewavesound wrote: »

MrGhosty wrote: »

I guess I'm not seeing where you have all this information from, Battle leveling just appears to up the base resource pools. Beyond that I don't recall ever seeing a difference in all the other stats. Based on what I've seen and the only bit of vague information regarding the extra battle leveling I don't see how gear is going to be affected one way or the other. Always happy to be proven wrong though (that means I would like actual facts rather than your assertion that really, you are correct, trust you) Also, as you are the one making the claim gathering and presenting the information about the issue is beholden on you not the part of your readers. Anytime I see a "go just look for yourself" posted in threads like these I immediately assume that person doesn't care enough about the subject to which they are complaining and tend to then think "then why should I care?"

Back to your point, I don't think it is going to work the way you think it's going to work so I would love to see what your sources are. Cheers mate.

No that is not how it works at all. My "sources" are playing in the non-vet campaign with battle leveling now. Plus you could always do a quick google search and see for yourself. Gotta love a mouthy bad attitude arguing a wrong point when he could check easily for himself that he is wrong.

"I see no ships" Tee hee

So, more of the same then. Despite finding your attitude abysmal, I am genuinely interested in how battle leveling with affect the gear game as it something I've not seen mentioned before and seeing as you seem to be the authority I thought you might have some more facts or details at hand to better cement your claim. My bad.

Docmandu

I'd rather win a PvP fight because I'm skilful, instead of having been able to spend 5 weeks in a PvE dungeon grinding monster sets! Or because the other guy hasn't PvE grinded VRxp yet for 1 month to get to VR14.