Community fix for PvE IC

Drake_Fury

Scratching the idea as I realised I dis wrong assumptions about how worked PvP zones. Will give more details tonight from a real PC.

Enodoc

It's theoretically possible, but since ZOS are trying to do away with the buff server concept I think orchestrating this is going to become more difficult. The design of both Cyrodiil and Imperial City PvE is based around the PvP risk, and removing that risk makes the PvE too easy.

P3ZZL3

and removing that risk makes the PvE too easy.

I think that's the point of this....

asteldian

You will find that access to IC will be restricted throughout the day due to ownership of keeps. That means there will be lots of times it will be very safe to farm stones for pvers.
A faction will get ownership, take the enemy keeps then a clear squad will ravage IC to remove enemy players. That makes it pretty safe to go in, on the flipside when an enemy faction locks you out it is time to deposit stonea

DDuke

So, you want all rewards with no risk? Guess what...

I will find you in that buff campaign and I will take all your stones

Leandor

This is what I feared. PvEers gearing up to make buff campaigns for the stones. This is exactly what I thought the moment I read that TV stones are going to be lootable. Combined with the necessity to have "all home keeps" or "all home keeps plus one enemy keep", there may be one competitive campaign. If at all.

Thank you for this marvelous "PvP centric DLC". I'll repost my post from July 16th:

Leandor wrote: »

Xinz'r wrote: »

<snipped for brevity>

I have posted on this topic before, sadly I do not find the post anymore (damn my post rate). Even the "6 home keeps required" option is bad. it is very easy to lock out a faction by just having one of their keeps (the outliers - drakelowe, dragonclaw or brindle - being the prime targets here) and defend it.

I would rather have easy access to IC in order to actually have PvP inside IC than to have a severly limited access and have PvDoor 2.0 inside.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler please consider to add the option "You must have a direct port route from the faction's gate area to one of their emperor keeps" as access restriction. That way, two or three keeps, along with at least one of their respective resource nodes, is all a faction needs. This can be achieved even if outnumbered on a campaign.

Don't make buff campaigns a thing again after going to all that effort to stop it.

BlackEar

Why are you calling people PVP'ing in PVP campaigns for trolls?

They are not. I think it is an interesting idea but I don't think you will succeed and I will try to prevent you from it as well.

Drake_Fury

Enodoc wrote: »

It's theoretically possible, but since ZOS are trying to do away with the buff server concept I think orchestrating this is going to become more difficult. The design of both Cyrodiil and Imperial City PvE is based around the PvP risk, and removing that risk makes the PvE too easy.

It's not about making PvE too easy. The Dungeons could be super hard for all we know. I just think the fact that people can steal stuff from those who worked hard to get it is as bad as real life stealing.

Now, some people WANT to be able to come 25 vs 1 to steal their stones, I won't go against it. I just want to make sure that those who don't want to have their hard work stolen from them can have a safe place.

DDuke wrote: »

So, you want all rewards with no risk? Guess what...

I will find you in that buff campaign and I will take all your stones

By all means, try. The point of making an unofficial zone like that is exactly so you little PKers arrive there and come face to face with 150 PvE players who will be happy to show you that you're not welcome in their area.

koetty

Wait, owning keeps in Cyrodiil is still needed for access to IC?
Thought this was an old idea?

Celestrael

DDuke wrote: »

So, you want all rewards with no risk? Guess what...

I will find you in that buff campaign and I will take all your stones

Not gonna lie, I lol'd.

Leandor

Sorry for being passive aggressive here, but the moment I see a Buff Campaign I will try to get every single PvPer I know to join that and make it the living gank hell.

Turelus

Leandor wrote: »

Sorry for being passive aggressive here, but the moment I see a Buff Campaign I will try to get every single PvPer I know to join that and make it the living gank hell.

And while he's doing that I will get all the access keeps under enemy control to stop people getting back in.

We need less campaigns were the map is one colour a majority of the time. I'm actually worried that if ZOS open up new campaigns for IC to deal with the masses flooding into Cyrodiil we will go back the days of dead campaigns owned by factions and used for sole PVE.

Enodoc

Drake_Fury wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

It's theoretically possible, but since ZOS are trying to do away with the buff server concept I think orchestrating this is going to become more difficult. The design of both Cyrodiil and Imperial City PvE is based around the PvP risk, and removing that risk makes the PvE too easy.

It's not about making PvE too easy. The Dungeons could be super hard for all we know. I just think the fact that people can steal stuff from those who worked hard to get it is as bad as real life stealing.

The Dungeons probably will be hard, but you don't need to even enter Cyrodiil to do the dungeons, as long as someone in the group has got them added to the map.

DDuke wrote: »

So, you want all rewards with no risk? Guess what...

I will find you in that buff campaign and I will take all your stones

By all means, try. The point of making an unofficial zone like that is exactly so you little PKers arrive there and come face to face with 150 PvE players who will be happy to show you that you're not welcome in their area.

This is unfair on PvP players though. Why should PvE players be allowed to lock down a whole PvP campaign and kick out the PvP players from their content, therefore removing the entire purpose of the zone? I would hope that this game has enough PvP players that this proposal is untenable.

Drake_Fury

BlackEar wrote: »

Why are you calling people PVP'ing in PVP campaigns for trolls?

They are not. I think it is an interesting idea but I don't think you will succeed and I will try to prevent you from it as well.

Correction, I'm not calling PVPers trolls, those I would call trolls, are those who would come in an enemy's unofficial PvE campaign to steal their stones. I have nothing against PvPers in general. What I have something against is people stealing the stuff I spent 5 hours farming in less than 30 sec by throwing a meteor while I'm talking to an npc, or while I look at my map, or whatever.

Stealing from others is bad, it's not because this is a game that it makes it good...

Leandor

Turelus wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Sorry for being passive aggressive here, but the moment I see a Buff Campaign I will try to get every single PvPer I know to join that and make it the living gank hell.

And while he's doing that I will get all the access keeps under enemy control to stop people getting back in.

We need less campaigns were the map is one colour a majority of the time. I'm actually worried that if ZOS open up new campaigns for IC to deal with the masses flooding into Cyrodiil we will go back the days of dead campaigns owned by factions and used for sole PVE.

I fear that will happen even without new campaigns. Everyone knows we have groups (on all sides, not calling names here) that feel that the only good campaign is a unicoloured one.

But I do look forward to show the "150 PvEers" that it is not quite as easy as it was to defend against a reasonably good PvP group... Looking forward to team up on those that try to take away our part of the fun in this game, @Turelus.

Drake_Fury

Enodoc wrote: »

This is unfair on PvP players though. Why should PvE players be allowed to lock down a whole PvP campaign and kick out the PvP players from their content, therefore removing the entire purpose of the zone? I would hope that this game has enough PvP players that this proposal is untenable.

PvP players will not be locked off their content. I'm sure there is a lot of PvPers who are eager to go chase others to steal their stuff, and that's all good. There is not only 3 campaigns avaliable i'm sure, and all those who want to steal (and risk being stolen from) can get in any of the other campaigns that will be avaliable, where, i'm sure, competition will be very present.

It's all about being able to play our own style. You guys can play show off all you want. All we want (or at least I) is being able to access the PvE content without having to risk losing 5 hours of playtime because we were taken by surprise by someone who does only this all day, kill others to steal what they worked to get.

Sausage

Increase Enlightment bank so people can take breaks and come back for PVE content update. Problem solved. Why Zen needs to pamper PVE players is beyond my understanding, you already got Craglorn, Vet Dungeons, Trials etc and next zone is for you guys too. Cyrodil is just half-done piece of crap and added to the game later. I'd overhaul entire Cyrodil tbh, boring landscape, every alliance has same Castles, same siege weapons, theres nothing cool. Even there was like 10+ different kind of Castles, that would give some variety or upgradeable Castles like 3 different version.

cjthibs

Drake_Fury wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

Why are you calling people PVP'ing in PVP campaigns for trolls?

They are not. I think it is an interesting idea but I don't think you will succeed and I will try to prevent you from it as well.

Correction, I'm not calling PVPers trolls, those I would call trolls, are those who would come in an enemy's unofficial PvE campaign to steal their stones. I have nothing against PvPers in general. What I have something against is people stealing the stuff I spent 5 hours farming in less than 30 sec by throwing a meteor while I'm talking to an npc, or while I look at my map, or whatever.

Stealing from others is bad, it's not because this is a game that it makes it good...

There is no such thing as a 'PvE Campaign.'

Drake_Fury

cjthibs wrote: »

There is no such thing as a 'PvE Campaign.'

Which is why it's preceded by the word "unofficial".

Drake_Fury

Sausage wrote: »

Increase Enlightment bank so people can take breaks and come back for PVE content update. Problem solved. Why Zen needs to pamper PVE players is beyond my understanding, you already got Craglorn, Vet Dungeons, Trials etc and next zone is for you guys too. Cyrodil is just half-done piece of crap and added to the game later. I'd overhaul entire Cyrodil tbh, boring landscape, every alliance has same Castles, same siege weapons, theres nothing cool. Even there was like 10+ different kind of Castles, that would give some variety or upgradeable Castles like 3 different version.

Like I said, I don't want ZOS to change anything about their DLC, it IS for you guys up to a certain point, that point being that there IS PvE content in that zone, and that content is the only content giving access to, what, 26 new sets, is that it? If those sets are entirely geared towards PvP, I couldn't care less, but if those sets end up being better than the sets we have access in PvE areas, it kinda FORCES us to do PvP.

LadyDestiny

If Zos had thought about this wisely, unless it is run by 20 year old pvp ***, they should have added a separate instance of cyrodiil that was just pve. Everyone wants to be able to go to cyrodiil even if it is just to explore. The fact it is locked behind just pvp content is really stupid. Don't tell me " Oh but there is pve content in cyrodiil" because in order to do that pve content you have to risk getting ganked to do it. I myself am not a big fan of pvp. I will buy the dlc and do it, but will probably lose most of my stones in the end. I am not good at pvp, never have been, never will be. Those pvp Gods that grind strickly for pvp, don't do pve content and only have enough slill points to cover their pvp skills and say "get good" are blowing smoke out their backside. Some people have a knack for pvp, while others no matter how hard they try, are just not good at it. This taking stuff some other players is not a good idea. Zos will lose a ton of players over this, unless they think that pvp players subs will be enough to keep them afloat. Good luck with that...

SickDuck

You Sir either new on this planet or just haven't realised that there's no LOL option that you could farm anymore.

lolo_01b16_ESO

LadyDestiny wrote: »

If Zos had thought about this wisely, unless it is run by 20 year old pve ***, they should have added a separate instance of all of Tamriel that was just pvp. Everyone wants to be able to go to all regions even if it is just to explore. The fact most is locked behind just pve content is really stupid.

Fixed your statement

Enodoc

Drake_Fury wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

This is unfair on PvP players though. Why should PvE players be allowed to lock down a whole PvP campaign and kick out the PvP players from their content, therefore removing the entire purpose of the zone? I would hope that this game has enough PvP players that this proposal is untenable.

PvP players will not be locked off their content. I'm sure there is a lot of PvPers who are eager to go chase others to steal their stuff, and that's all good. There is not only 3 campaigns avaliable i'm sure, and all those who want to steal (and risk being stolen from) can get in any of the other campaigns that will be avaliable, where, i'm sure, competition will be very present.

Whichever campaign you chose, you would be locking PvP players out of that campaign if they wanted to play with that scoring system. Say, for example, you chose to lock down the only campaign where you get scoring points for capturing Keeps. PvP players who enjoy capturing keeps would get no reward for doing what they enjoy doing in any of the other campaigns, and that would affect their End of Campaign Rewards. PvP in the other campaigns would also be affected by the ousted players trying to make the best of a bad situation, which would negatively affect their alliance's performance in that campaign as well.

Drake_Fury

SickDuck wrote: »

You Sir either new on this planet or just haven't realised that there's no LOL option that you could farm anymore.

I'm definitely new to that game, for sure, I started a week after console release. I haven't played League of Legends either if that's what you're reffering to, other than that I don't get the meaning of what you say...

JD2013

I have to respectfully disagree on a PVE only Cyrodiil. It would just be very large and mostly empty. I love the danger of Cyrodiil.

LadyDestiny

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

LadyDestiny wrote: »

If Zos had thought about this wisely, unless it is run by 20 year old pve ***, they should have added a separate instance of all of Tamriel that was just pvp. Everyone wants to be able to go to all regions even if it is just to explore. The fact most is locked behind just pve content is really stupid.

Fixed your statement

Well true, and thank you, but I think players get the meaning. I for one would love to go to cyrodiil or the Imperial City without fear of trolls.

lolo_01b16_ESO

LadyDestiny wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

LadyDestiny wrote: »

If Zos had thought about this wisely, unless it is run by 20 year old pve ***, they should have added a separate instance of all of Tamriel that was just pvp. Everyone wants to be able to go to all regions even if it is just to explore. The fact most is locked behind just pve content is really stupid.

Fixed your statement

Well true, and thank you, but I think players get the meaning. I for one would love to go to cyrodiil or the Imperial City without fear of trolls.

And I would love to be able to go to Auridon, Grathwood, Greenshade, Malabal Tor, Reaper's Mark, Stonefalls, Eastmarch, Shadowfen, Deshaan, Rift without doing dozens of quests.

Merlin13KAGL

Enodoc wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

It's not about making PvE too easy. The Dungeons could be super hard for all we know. I just think the fact that people can steal stuff from those who worked hard to get it is as bad as real life stealing.

The Dungeons probably will be hard, but you don't need to even enter Cyrodiil to do the dungeons, as long as someone in the group has got them added to the map.

By all means, try. The point of making an unofficial zone like that is exactly so you little PKers arrive there and come face to face with 150 PvE players who will be happy to show you that you're not welcome in their area.

This is unfair on PvP players though. Why should PvE players be allowed to lock down a whole PvP campaign and kick out the PvP players from their content, therefore removing the entire purpose of the zone? I would hope that this game has enough PvP players that this proposal is untenable.

OP, FFS, defend yourself. You don't go 25:1 anywhere else and expect to live - you don't solo SO, do you?

If you can get 6x24 man groups together to do ^^^this (expand the quotes)^^^ on a 'PvE' server, WTH can't you do it now???

Hate to break it to you, but what you describe above sounds dangerously like P v P

LadyDestiny wrote: »

If Zos had thought about this wisely, unless it is run by 20 year old pvp ***, they should have added a separate instance of cyrodiil that was just pve. Everyone wants to be able to go to cyrodiil even if it is just to explore.

No, they shouldn't. There is no element of risk at all if it's 100% PvE, which was part of the allure of Cyrodiil for many that never would have considered 'doing PvP.'

LadyDestiny wrote: »

Everyone wants to be able to go to cyrodiil even if it is just to explore.

Everyone above level 9 can do this right now. Do you expect to be able to do an RP sight seeing tour? Unlikely. Is it manageable? Quite.

I collected all skyshards, cleared most dolmens, cleared most delves (boss respawn hell), and cleared all quest hubs mostly solo. Started going there regularly at VR3.

Got a few kills. Got my ass handed to me more often than not.

Got better. Made friends. Friends got better.

Aside from a handful of hackers, there is no one individual that never dies or is undefeatable in Cyrodiil. Approach it like you would PvE content you initially can't clear. But don't try to take the aspect out entirely.

You wouldn't like it if the 5th zone in each Alliance was suddenly tagged open world PvP and all PvE removed. It doesn't need to be instanced, it doesn't need to be removed (translated nerfed). Take a group, learn the ropes, like you would do with any other content, and be successful.

Then you can end up having the same kind of conversation I'm having with you, right now.

TequilaFire

I have an idea lets get all of the PvP groups to overrun PvE trials so they are clogged up.
I really don't mean that but that is what PvE buff servers do to us trying to actually do competitive PvP.

DDuke

Drake_Fury wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

So, you want all rewards with no risk? Guess what...

I will find you in that buff campaign and I will take all your stones

By all means, try. The point of making an unofficial zone like that is exactly so you little PKers arrive there and come face to face with 150 PvE players who will be happy to show you that you're not welcome in their area.