At least ZOS is being honest about IC

Pallmor

I will say that I like that they're being honest about the fact that it's a straight-up PvP area and that PvE players should save their money and wait for Orsinium. They're also not hiding the fact that encouraging ganking is an integral part of the design. Got to give them props for being straightforward and honest, even though I may disagree with their decisions (not on PvP itself, but on player looting).

Looking forward to some VR16 PvE love in Orsinium, with no player looting allowed. Will follow ZOS's advice and save my crowns for that.

phairdon

Makes sense really.

Lionxoft

Pallmor wrote: »

I will say that I like that they're being honest about the fact that it's a straight-up PvP area and that PvE players should save their money and wait for Orsinium. They're also not hiding the fact that encouraging ganking is an integral part of the design. Got to give them props for being straightforward and honest, even though I may disagree with their decisions (not on PvP itself, but on player looting).

Looking forward to some VR16 PvE love in Orsinium, with no player looting allowed. Will follow ZOS's advice and save my crowns for that.

No one knew they were being dishonest until a few months after launch. Imperial City looks great right now though despite the price tag for what's involved. If the dungeons are good then it will be worth it but you can't blame me for being skeptical before we've seen anything.

Pman85

Lionxoft wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

I will say that I like that they're being honest about the fact that it's a straight-up PvP area and that PvE players should save their money and wait for Orsinium. They're also not hiding the fact that encouraging ganking is an integral part of the design. Got to give them props for being straightforward and honest, even though I may disagree with their decisions (not on PvP itself, but on player looting).

Looking forward to some VR16 PvE love in Orsinium, with no player looting allowed. Will follow ZOS's advice and save my crowns for that.

No one knew they were being dishonest until a few months after launch. Imperial City looks great right now though despite the price tag for what's involved. If the dungeons are good then it will be worth it but you can't blame me for being skeptical before we've seen anything.

Can't blame you at all, even if I think the price tag is pretty trivial. But you do bring up a good point about letting it sit before you can see/watch more about it. Many players are on the fence about this game in general, so the few weeks leading up to the release will be interesting indeed.

asteldian

4 dungeons and finally a thrill due to actually worrying about death. I'm in even as a predominantly pve focused player.

Turelus

asteldian wrote: »

4 dungeons and finally a thrill due to actually worrying about death. I'm in even as a predominantly pve focused player.

I'm a PVE/PVP player and I have to say I agree fully on this.

Also PVE players will get two new dungeons for VR16 items, so they could always buy it for them.

I thought ZOS had said somewhere that the sets you buy with stones would be drops in dungeons but BoP rather than BoE.

Pangnirtung

Pallmor wrote: »

Looking forward to some VR16 PvE love in Orsinium, with no player looting allowed. Will follow ZOS's advice and save my crowns for that.

I mistakenly thought that there would be a large PVE zone in the IC where I could get materials, etc. I was wrong.

After what one of the ZOS people wrote on here a few days ago it is clear that this release is intended mainly for PVP. More power to the PVPers. I sincerely hope that it turns out great for them.

I will download the IC on the PTS out of curiosity but as it sits I will probably save my banked crowns for Orsinium however many month and months away that it is.

OzJohnD

Honest ?

septvestige

This update is not for me obviously. I always hated mmos where players are able to loot others. There were numerous occasions where it went out of order like lineage2 or the hardcore persistent worlds of Neverwinter Nights, Archage. I think it bring the worst from the player community and it has a danger of bringing a change towards a toxic community behaviour.

That doesn't mean others have to feel this way. I agree with the OP. No use crying about it on the forum. It's not for us let's move on and wait for future content. Let the pvp-ers who like this concept have it!

I just want to ask ZOS please don't create another Craglorn with the forced only group content in future addons when you will focus pve again! Combined with the very weak group finder it's almost impossible to find a group for those quests. Noone wants to start it over and over, if you share quest it doesn't registered as achievement upon completion if you didn't do the previous quests. Moreover I recently decided to change to US server becouse even if I find a group for craglorn very often they can't speak english. Yes in Europe there are people who still consider french or german or even spanish a superior language and there kids who just too young to be good in a foreign language. So pve grouping is hard. Add to it that the new dungeons are tied with gear grind with exclusive gearsets or crafting mats it just make it even harder to find a group especially for Craglorn. (I'm talking about the normal questlines not the trials)

So ok this update is for pvp-ers or a type of player base that's ok. Just do the other new pve areas properly in the future pls!

phairdon

TommyGoodgone wrote: »

This update is not for me obviously. I always hated mmos where players are able to loot others. There were numerous occasions where it went out of order like lineage2 or the hardcore persistent worlds of Neverwinter Nights, Archage. I think it bring the worst from the player community and it has a danger of bringing a change towards a toxic community behaviour.

That doesn't mean others have to feel this way. I agree with the OP. No use crying about it on the forum. It's not for us let's move on and wait for future content. Let the pvp-ers who like this concept have it!

I just want to ask ZOS please don't create another Craglorn with the forced only group content in future addons when you will focus pve again! Combined with the very weak group finder it's almost impossible to find a group for those quests. Noone wants to start it over and over, if you share quest it doesn't registered as achievement upon completion if you didn't do the previous quests. Moreover I recently decided to change to US server becouse even if I find a group for craglorn very often they can't speak english. Yes in Europe there are people who still consider french or german or even spanish a superior language and there kids who just too young to be good in a foreign language. So pve grouping is hard. Add to it that the new dungeons are tied with gear grind with exclusive gearsets or crafting mats it just make it even harder to find a group especially for Craglorn. (I'm talking about the normal questlines not the trials)

So ok this update is for pvp-ers or a type of player base that's ok. Just do the other new pve areas properly in the future pls!

Never play gw2 then, as all players drop loot bags after death, in world vs world. Standard line in the game when watching an approaching zerg. "here come 50 loot bags".

Turelus

Poor ZOS are damned if they do and damned if they don't with this community.

The level of entitlement coming to this game is horrible. Whatever happened to gamers playing the game and not being crying babies about litrally every single word the developers say. No wonder they never engage us on the forums or elsewhere, the moment they speak they get attacked with pitchforks and torches.

KerinKor

phairdon wrote: »

TommyGoodgone wrote: »

This update is not for me obviously. I always hated mmos where players are able to loot others. There were numerous occasions where it went out of order like lineage2 or the hardcore persistent worlds of Neverwinter Nights, Archage. I think it bring the worst from the player community and it has a danger of bringing a change towards a toxic community behaviour.

That doesn't mean others have to feel this way. I agree with the OP. No use crying about it on the forum. It's not for us let's move on and wait for future content. Let the pvp-ers who like this concept have it!

I just want to ask ZOS please don't create another Craglorn with the forced only group content in future addons when you will focus pve again! Combined with the very weak group finder it's almost impossible to find a group for those quests. Noone wants to start it over and over, if you share quest it doesn't registered as achievement upon completion if you didn't do the previous quests. Moreover I recently decided to change to US server becouse even if I find a group for craglorn very often they can't speak english. Yes in Europe there are people who still consider french or german or even spanish a superior language and there kids who just too young to be good in a foreign language. So pve grouping is hard. Add to it that the new dungeons are tied with gear grind with exclusive gearsets or crafting mats it just make it even harder to find a group especially for Craglorn. (I'm talking about the normal questlines not the trials)

So ok this update is for pvp-ers or a type of player base that's ok. Just do the other new pve areas properly in the future pls!

Never play gw2 then, as all players drop loot bags after death, in world vs world. Standard line in the game when watching an approaching zerg. "here come 50 loot bags".

Why raise an entirely false comparison .. GW2 WvW and this PVE content with forced PVPing is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

Pallmor

TommyGoodgone wrote: »

I just want to ask ZOS please don't create another Craglorn with the forced only group content in future addons when you will focus pve again!

Yeah, I would love to see Orsinium giving some love for us solo players.

TommyGoodgone wrote: »

Combined with the very weak group finder it's almost impossible to find a group for those quests.

Tell me about it. This weekend I was trying to find a group on the PS4 NA server to run a vet dungeon. Bad enough there is not zone text chat to lfg on with the console version, but the group finder was also completely useless. About the only way to group is to be in an active guild (which are also hard to find with no zone chat).

The sad thing is that the population is there. Even the vet areas are more way more crowded on the PS4 version than the PC. But even with the higher pop, the group finder is completely broken. Put together a 3-person group just by soliciting players at the entrance. Had a healer, a tank, and a dps. But never could find another dps in the group finder. Come on, not ONE other dps player was lfg? Really? Could understand if it were a healer maybe.

I do like the built-in voice chat, though. But we also desperately need zone text chat and better guild communication tools on the consoles. It's already tough enough to group on the PC even with them. Without them, it's a nightmare.

phairdon

@KerinKor

"Always hated MMO's where you could loot others". Gw2 is simply an example of a game where loot drops from dead players.

Pallmor

phairdon wrote: »

@KerinKor

"Always hated MMO's where you could loot others". Gw2 is simply an example of a game where loot drops from dead players.

Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Is it ACTUAL player looting in GW2 (where you can loot stuff from the dead player, and they lose it), or do dead players simply drop random loot? I wouldn't have any problem with the latter.

KerinKor

phairdon wrote: »

@KerinKor

"Always hated MMO's where you could loot others". Gw2 is simply an example of a game where loot drops from dead players.

The context of this thread is PVE progression items requiring forced PVPing in order to realistically obtain the items needed, I repeat GW2 WvW is an entirely different context.

phairdon

KerinKor wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

@KerinKor

"Always hated MMO's where you could loot others". Gw2 is simply an example of a game where loot drops from dead players.

The context of this thread is PVE progression items requiring forced PVPing in order to realistically obtain the items needed, I repeat GW2 WvW is an entirely different context.

Sorry you don't get it. Btw, world vs world did have pve content from time to time, plus pve players had to venture into the territory to get map completion (100% world completion), which in turn was part of the system for gaining gifts to build legendary weapons. It was a common complaint amongst non world vs world players for a long period of time, just as WvW players wanted all pve removed from their zones. So like this game, they were at risk of being ganked. While they might not be dropping precious tel var stones, it was still forced pve & they dropped loot.

A poster in a discussion yesterday mentioned pve players might gain direct access to the dungeons in IC without their alliance being in control of the Imperial City. Assuming tel var stones can be gained from the dungeons, being looted might not be an issue for pve players.

Turelus

phairdon wrote: »

A poster in a discussion yesterday mentioned pve players might gain direct access to the dungeons in IC without their alliance being in control of the Imperial City. Assuming tel var stones can be gained from the dungeons, being looted might not be an issue for pve players.

From my understanding you only need to travel to the dungeon one to unlock it then can go there any time in the normal way. Considering that most players send someone in first then port to that player I am wondering if you'll be able to do the same as long as you own the DLC.

As such never once need to step into PVP zones but open the PVE dungeons for play.

Flaminir

Turelus wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

A poster in a discussion yesterday mentioned pve players might gain direct access to the dungeons in IC without their alliance being in control of the Imperial City. Assuming tel var stones can be gained from the dungeons, being looted might not be an issue for pve players.

From my understanding you only need to travel to the dungeon one to unlock it then can go there any time in the normal way. Considering that most players send someone in first then port to that player I am wondering if you'll be able to do the same as long as you own the DLC.

As such never once need to step into PVP zones but open the PVE dungeons for play.

This is the way I see it too...

Lots of people saying the sky is falling & where is their new PvE content... .and saying they won't download IC as they don't want to be forced to PvP...

But they don't have to!

Unlock the new dungeons once & then just port to them!

Given that the group dungeons have got progressively better as ZoS have released them, I fully expect the new ones to be well worth a go!

asteldian

You don't get stones from the dungeon but you will get loot to decon for making vr16 gear. That can then be used at the IC crafting tables - yes you have to get through PvP areas to use them, but your mats are not lootable so it doesn't matter if you die a few times. So, there is plenty of opportunity for vr16 gear without risk of consequence even if you hate PvP.

UPrime

Turelus wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

A poster in a discussion yesterday mentioned pve players might gain direct access to the dungeons in IC without their alliance being in control of the Imperial City. Assuming tel var stones can be gained from the dungeons, being looted might not be an issue for pve players.

From my understanding you only need to travel to the dungeon one to unlock it then can go there any time in the normal way.

You don't even need to do that if one of the people in the group found it. You can just port to them like any other dungeon.

Enodoc

phairdon wrote: »

A poster in a discussion yesterday mentioned pve players might gain direct access to the dungeons in IC without their alliance being in control of the Imperial City. Assuming tel var stones can be gained from the dungeons, being looted might not be an issue for pve players.

PvE players will have access to the dungeons without having to go through the city, but they must be added to the map by discovering them first. It is not yet known whether they can be "discovered" by talking to the Undaunted members at the tavern, like you can for the other dungeons, but you'll still most likely be able to port to someone who is already in there even if you haven't discovered it. Tel Var Stones do not drop in the dungeons.

Pallmor

asteldian wrote: »

You don't get stones from the dungeon but you will get loot to decon for making vr16 gear. That can then be used at the IC crafting tables - yes you have to get through PvP areas to use them, but your mats are not lootable so it doesn't matter if you die a few times.

I suspect that if they're in PvP areas, you'll have gankers camping them. If griefers will sit all day spamming light flashes at a dye station for nothing but their own amusement, you can bet there will be gankers willing to sneak around PvP crafting stations all day if they think there is the possibility they could get stones out of it (keep in mind that IC players won't know whether or not you actually have stones on you or not). I just hope that PvP in IC is like Cyrodil in that you don't suffer armor degradation. Otherwise, expect to see a lot of naked crafters.

Still, I think ZOS is right about this being a PvP focused expansion and that PvE players should just wait for Orsinium instead.

Enodoc

Pallmor wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

You don't get stones from the dungeon but you will get loot to decon for making vr16 gear. That can then be used at the IC crafting tables - yes you have to get through PvP areas to use them, but your mats are not lootable so it doesn't matter if you die a few times.

I suspect that if they're in PvP areas, you'll have gankers camping them. If griefers will sit all day spamming light flashes at a dye station for nothing but their own amusement, you can bet there will be gankers willing to sneak around PvP crafting stations all day if they think there is the possibility they could get stones out of it (keep in mind that IC players won't know whether or not you actually have stones on you or not). I just hope that PvP in IC is like Cyrodil in that you don't suffer armor degradation. Otherwise, expect to see a lot of naked crafters.

Still, I think ZOS is right about this being a PvP focused expansion and that PvE players should just wait for Orsinium instead.

Pretty sure the crafting tables themselves are in safe areas, but you may indeed get griefers camping the entrances. Will be interesting to see if there is any safe-zone to safe-zone porting opportunities.

Sykis

I play mostly PVE. I don't mind the PVPVE that this will bring. I know the risk and do not plan on playing the open area in IC with the predetermined idea that I will be able to get a certain amount of stones for my purposes. I will quest with some friends I have made and when we are done if I have stones on me great if not I will go to my safe zone and open my boxes and bank them. Either way I like different experiences in a game with the freedom to chose between them. Yes I may quest for an hour or more at a time and end with all my lootable stones gone but I will still have my boxes, materials and gear drops with no fear of loosing them.

I'm stoked for this new DLC and can't wait till we see it on the PTS. I will not criticize content that I have not played yet because it is all subject to change.

As far as people talking about what the Devs said or typed, keep in mind that opinions very even between DEVs and taking a single sentence out of any conversation may lose some of the context that DEV was trying to convey or turn attention away from the rest of the content within that conversation.

Romo

phairdon wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

@KerinKor

"Always hated MMO's where you could loot others". Gw2 is simply an example of a game where loot drops from dead players.

The context of this thread is PVE progression items requiring forced PVPing in order to realistically obtain the items needed, I repeat GW2 WvW is an entirely different context.

Sorry you don't get it. Btw, world vs world did have pve content from time to time, plus pve players had to venture into the territory to get map completion (100% world completion), which in turn was part of the system for gaining gifts to build legendary weapons. It was a common complaint amongst non world vs world players for a long period of time, just as WvW players wanted all pve removed from their zones. So like this game, they were at risk of being ganked. While they might not be dropping precious tel var stones, it was still forced pve & they dropped loot.

A poster in a discussion yesterday mentioned pve players might gain direct access to the dungeons in IC without their alliance being in control of the Imperial City. Assuming tel var stones can be gained from the dungeons, being looted might not be an issue for pve players.

Suggest you review the published data on the DLC.

1. Stones only in PvP areas.
2. When you are killed the griefer takes all your stones, there is no loot bag drop of more stones, Your stones are gone.

Weberda

Romo wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

@KerinKor

"Always hated MMO's where you could loot others". Gw2 is simply an example of a game where loot drops from dead players.

The context of this thread is PVE progression items requiring forced PVPing in order to realistically obtain the items needed, I repeat GW2 WvW is an entirely different context.

Sorry you don't get it. Btw, world vs world did have pve content from time to time, plus pve players had to venture into the territory to get map completion (100% world completion), which in turn was part of the system for gaining gifts to build legendary weapons. It was a common complaint amongst non world vs world players for a long period of time, just as WvW players wanted all pve removed from their zones. So like this game, they were at risk of being ganked. While they might not be dropping precious tel var stones, it was still forced pve & they dropped loot.

A poster in a discussion yesterday mentioned pve players might gain direct access to the dungeons in IC without their alliance being in control of the Imperial City. Assuming tel var stones can be gained from the dungeons, being looted might not be an issue for pve players.

Suggest you review the published data on the DLC.

1. Stones only in PvP areas.
2. When you are killed the griefer takes all your stones, there is no loot bag drop of more stones, Your stones are gone.

And when you kill a griefer/ganker you get his "ill gotten gains" as well as nullifying all that time he just spent waiting for a target.

Attorneyatlawl

Pallmor wrote: »

I will say that I like that they're being honest about the fact that it's a straight-up PvP area and that PvE players should save their money and wait for Orsinium. They're also not hiding the fact that encouraging ganking is an integral part of the design. Got to give them props for being straightforward and honest, even though I may disagree with their decisions (not on PvP itself, but on player looting).

Looking forward to some VR16 PvE love in Orsinium, with no player looting allowed. Will follow ZOS's advice and save my crowns for that.

Dear Sir or Ma'am,

We regret to inform you that level-headed thinking ain't welcome 'round these here parts! Were they, you might otherwise be greeted with something like this:



Unfortunately, rabblement is the order of the day and so I cannot.

Sincerely,
-Attorney



(That's /sarcasm for anyone who missed it.)

QuebraRegra

septvestige wrote: »

This update is not for me obviously. I always hated mmos where players are able to loot others. There were numerous occasions where it went out of order like lineage2 or the hardcore persistent worlds of Neverwinter Nights, Archage. I think it bring the worst from the player community and it has a danger of bringing a change towards a toxic community behaviour.

That doesn't mean others have to feel this way. I agree with the OP. No use crying about it on the forum. It's not for us let's move on and wait for future content. Let the pvp-ers who like this concept have it!

I just want to ask ZOS please don't create another Craglorn with the forced only group content in future addons when you will focus pve again! Combined with the very weak group finder it's almost impossible to find a group for those quests. Noone wants to start it over and over, if you share quest it doesn't registered as achievement upon completion if you didn't do the previous quests. Moreover I recently decided to change to US server becouse even if I find a group for craglorn very often they can't speak english. Yes in Europe there are people who still consider french or german or even spanish a superior language and there kids who just too young to be good in a foreign language. So pve grouping is hard. Add to it that the new dungeons are tied with gear grind with exclusive gearsets or crafting mats it just make it even harder to find a group especially for Craglorn. (I'm talking about the normal questlines not the trials)

So ok this update is for pvp-ers or a type of player base that's ok. Just do the other new pve areas properly in the future pls!

I'm sorry but yer being FAR too generous there....