Vigor + NB = Master Race

Suntzu1414

As a long time NB (two VR14 - Mag/Stm).

I here to say. When vigor becomes available to a larger group of players.
Specifically, NB. The master race of NB will begin.
With Vigor + Siphon (include high regn meta).
It will be near impossible to kill...us. (and i die alot)

we thought shield stacking was bad.
with changes in Dark Cloak (single target attacks)...

As a magica NB. I can cloak all day
Add in Vigor (Stam or Mag) base cost..
and even if you do hit me...
i will just heal..heal .. heal.

This will make the shield stacking meta.
We saw in 1.6...pale in comparison.


Just a heads up...developers.
ST

chevalierknight

I use soul harvest so i dont mind healers it becomes a easy kill when people star trying to heal i up the attack

Lynx7386

What is the deal with kids these days and speaking in staggered statements?

Anyways, nothing will change, it's no different than using rally.

lathbury

im more concerned about the changes to roll dodge causing a new talon spam troll meta as it offers no cc immunity.

Zsymon

What exactly in Siphoning gives a stamina NB high survivability? Strife will get a massive 75% nerf with the new Battle Spirit, apart from that I don't see anything to help with healing. Vigor is useless for magicka builds, so that only leaves Cloak spam, which won't kill anyone. I just don't see the problem dude.

Suntzu1414

sorry. my example was targeted about Magica NB (per text).

btw. where did you read the 75% nerf?


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Zsymon

lathbury wrote: »

im more concerned about the changes to roll dodge causing a new talon spam troll meta as it offers no cc immunity.

Talons had its range nerfed by a ton to solve that problem. The only two larger range roots left are Bombard (bow, 20m), and Encase (Sorc, 15m).

The little 6m range from Talons really shouldn't be a problem compared to that, especially since DKs won't be able to blockcast Whip anymore.

DKs will be the least of your problems, the only viable PvP DK build got wrecked. They will have to offer DKs some sensitive buffs to make them viable again.

olsborg

As said in that other thread, Cloak should get the same treatment as Bolt Escape and Dodgeroll

Suntzu1414

olsborg wrote: »

As said in that other thread, Cloak should get the same treatment as Bolt Escape and Dodgeroll

agreed.

If not..we will have dark cloak zergs ...

now...that... i want to see :P


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leepalmer95

Feel all this patch is going to achieve is make the gap between sorc/nb's and templar/dk's bigger and make zergs harder to kill and give 90% of the player base an aoe heal (gg for zergs)

GreyRanger

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

As a long time NB (two VR14 - Mag/Stm).

with changes in Dark Cloak (single target attacks)...

ST

Just wondering, where did you see info on the changes to Dark Cloak?

Suntzu1414

heres the link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3bzewt/update_7_what_we_know_so_far/


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Lynx7386

Zsymon wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

im more concerned about the changes to roll dodge causing a new talon spam troll meta as it offers no cc immunity.

Talons had its range nerfed by a ton to solve that problem. The only two larger range roots left are Bombard (bow, 20m), and Encase (Sorc, 15m).

The little 6m range from Talons really shouldn't be a problem compared to that, especially since DKs won't be able to blockcast Whip anymore.

DKs will be the least of your problems, the only viable PvP DK build got wrecked. They will have to offer DKs some sensitive buffs to make them viable again.

Bombard is only 10m.

Leandor

Vigor works based on stamina. A magicka NB will not benefit very much of it. Vice versa on cloak. The picture you paint contains large amounts of hyperbole.

Suntzu1414

NB benefits (powerful dps) were balanced with a lack of heals (and shields).
The lack of shields could be overcome by Resto...

But, heals have always been lacking (1.5 addition of Rally helped over come --part of this)
With the addition of vigor, now we can attack, cloak and heal...with out any chance of reprisal.

No other class, has this option.
You could say, that sorcs could shield then heal (same with Temps).
But, the difference with Sorcs...you can still SEE them. and stun...

Yes, vigor is based of stam.
but, i can stay in cloak..while my stam regens, and just keep healing..
(with current cloak meta..i can stay cloaked forever...)


this on larger scale (group/zerg) is a major problem.


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ScruffyWhiskers

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

this on larger scale (group/zerg) is a major problem.

What do you think the chances of seeing a zerg of magicka nb's together is? Right now that would be like sighting a herd of unicorns lol. Ok maybe the next update makes them flavor of the month but I think that's just hype right now. The fixes to cloak are nice but not game changing. It's increasing survivability in an area that should have been addressed a long time ago. I shouldn't have to reuse an ability 3 times in a row chanting "please work, please work" with fingers crossed and my prayer candles lit all around me, just to have a chance that it will kick in once.

Also I remember messing around with vigor and cloak when 1.6 hit. I'm not on to test but I'm pretty sure it broke stealth just like casting healing ward. I would think it would break cloak. Can anybody confirm that it does indeed NOT break cloak? EDIT:NEVER MIND. Just tested it and it does not seem to break cloak or stealth.

Plus siphon is a very specialized build at least for pvp. You need to really know how to play with it to make it work. Most nb's toggle it on and wonder why they are not doing much and dying a lot.

EDIT: I have been reminded that a herd of unicorns is actually called a blessing of unicorns.

Zsymon

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Bombard is only 10m.

No, it is 20m. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Zsymon

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

NB benefits (powerful dps) were balanced with a lack of heals (and shields).
The lack of shields could be overcome by Resto...

But, heals have always been lacking (1.5 addition of Rally helped over come --part of this)
With the addition of vigor, now we can attack, cloak and heal...with out any chance of reprisal.

No other class, has this option.
You could say, that sorcs could shield then heal (same with Temps).
But, the difference with Sorcs...you can still SEE them. and stun...

Yes, vigor is based of stam.
but, i can stay in cloak..while my stam regens, and just keep healing..
(with current cloak meta..i can stay cloaked forever...)


this on larger scale (group/zerg) is a major problem.


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I'm sorry dude but none of what you say actually works in reality. You keep saying "I" but I don't think you actually have a VR14 NB, otherwise you wouldn't be saying these things.

Vigor being based of stamina doesn't just mean it costs stamina, it means the heal is extremely low if you are a magicka build, so low that it is useless. The heal starts low and gets higher the more weapon damage and max stamina you have. Resto shield only works if your health is very low, and resto doesn't have a single target burst heal.

So no, NBs can't attack, cloak and heal without any reprisal, all they can do is attack and cloak, they have no strong heals or shields.

Zanen

The cloak changes aren't going to make that big a difference. It's still broken by AOE and most players slot an aoe ability.

Cloak spammers generally get wrecked and all I ever use to counter is steel tornado.

The changes to vigor and brutality will just give the class some much needed build flexibility by making rally optional.

Ahzek

@Lynx7386 Whats the deal with these ignorant people thinking their language is the only one on the planet ?
The OP, while gramatically incorrect, was perfectly understandable, even for me with English as my second language.

You should get off your high horse and actually try to think about what you are writing before answering in such a manner.

And its way different than using rally, becaus it doesnt rely on a weapon type and can be used TOGETHER with it for magicka templar levels of self heal.

However that is not resticted to nightblades and all stamina builds that know what they are doing and have access to vigor are very hard to kill, with NB however being the strongest stam build overall since they also get free stamina sustain (passive and active) unlike the others.

Ahzek

Magicka builds using vigor are effectively gimping themselves, they would just run a way worse version of repid regeneration, which is almost never seen already.
The reall issue with NBs cloaking for heals (if it is an issue ) is cloak and almost any stamina NB can still cast that quite a few times before running oom, so the the OPs general statement holds some truth, even though it is seen fro the wrong side of the spectrum.
Yes stam NBs will be hard to kill, at least solo, but this is the case already and a few mistakes usually still mean death to those NBs (unless they go CP to save their ass). With cloak buffs it will be a bit harder still and the general burst nerf will add quite some survivabilty to anyone who wasnt using nirnhoned against magicka burst combos.

Dracane

Nightblade already is so strong. I believe, with the next update, they're going to make Cyrodiil explode.
Cloak is sickly OP and I can live with the 'fixes' but if the rumors are true, that detect potions will no longer work against Cloak..... omg I can't even describe how freaking overpowered Nightblade is going to be.

MrGigglypants

Lol aoe will still break cloak the greater issue is people expecting to go purist pve builds in PvP and lacking utility abilities on their back bar I.e. burning spear for templars that basicly negate cloak if you just throw a few around especially considering its significant range and low cost

GreenSoup2HoT

1: Piercing Mark. Ruin's all Nb's who Cloak.
2: Slot an AoE
3: Caltrop's

I'm just happy Vigor will be Assault level 5.

I've tried to play DW/Bow Stamina NB and it is the worst thing because you have no heal's. I was forced to use 2h rally...

Now i can go back to using my DW/Bow setup.

My only problem is they are putting Major Brutality on Hidden Blade. WHY ZOS WHY. If i use a bow why would i ever use HIDDEN BLADE. Put it on Twin Slashes common.

Zsymon

The whining is really reaching epic levels lately on this forum. Cloak has never been considered overpowered even though people didn't bother using detection pots, now suddenly they remove the unused detection pots from being effective, and Cloak becomes madly overpowered? What gives?

There are people passionately whining about the rumored Cloak change, even though they have never used detection pots before, like the majority of PvP'ers haven't ever used a detection pot. Do people just need some subject to complain about to get their forum fix?

If you or a single person in your group slot any type of AoE skill, the NB won't be able to escape.. how is that overpowered? Are you seriously worried that you can't zerg down some NB in the far distance because he Cloaks away?

Suntzu1414

Thank for your kind comments.

And i have to say.. i have played NB before :P
You can ask he guys at NM and MO...

I think the problem for me..is i just don't want NB changes..to tip the scale...
and then we get nerfed to death...similar to DK.
..im not suggesting...that we are completely overpowered. I am suggesting, that giving heals...
...to a class that was originally balanced..not to have heals...might be an overstep.

Regarding AOE.
Over the last 6 moths. When i switched to non-NB classes.
I found it very difficult to hunt NB, using just AOE...

If they are good NB, they will keep moving..(either in cloak or stealth)
avoiding AOE...and remaining stealth. if you have suggestions...please share.


Regarding Unicorns.
I'm sure Ive seen a few...typically after long nights of playing ESO
and drinking whiskey..


Regarding Language
English is my third language.
Though i speak it natively, i haven't used it for years...so please excuse my mistakes.



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BigTone

If you think that caltrops and using AoE attacks are an effective way to hunt a cloaking NB, you are mistaken.

Lynx7386

Magicka nightblades are the only ones that can 'spam' invisibility, and they benefit far less from it than stamina nightblades. My stam NB can cast cloak exactly twice before I'm completely out of magicka, there's no issue with it there. Maybe it needs rebalancing for the magicka builds, but that needs to be done so in a way that does not impact its use for stamina builds. The devs already jacked that up on sorcerors with the bolt escape changes, which make it a useless ability for non-magicka players.

chevalierknight

Yes yes nerf it yes









(Uses healing ward and mist form for 100% heal and noone sees)

chevalierknight

Zsymon wrote: »

The whining is really reaching epic levels lately on this forum. Cloak has never been considered overpowered even though people didn't bother using detection pots, now suddenly they remove the unused detection pots from being effective, and Cloak becomes madly overpowered? What gives?

There are people passionately whining about the rumored Cloak change, even though they have never used detection pots before, like the majority of PvP'ers haven't ever used a detection pot. Do people just need some subject to complain about to get their forum fix?

If you or a single person in your group slot any type of AoE skill, the NB won't be able to escape.. how is that overpowered? Are you seriously worried that you can't zerg down some NB in the far distance because he Cloaks away?

I use pots all the time tho thats only because all my magic health pots have it in