Werewolf - WHY cant i GENERATE ulti while in WW Form?????????

Alcast

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Why...ffs, its already crazy that it costs 288 and then you cant even generate ulti while in form....

need more WW

JJBaboon

Why would you be able to? WW form is an ultimate. While it is active you are still enjoying the benifits of your ultimate. If you were able to build ulitmate while in WW form, all of the mechanics behind increasing your shifted time would be pointless and WW form would be essentially unlimited. All you are doing is asking why and making no point or argument for why it should be different than it is now...

Alcast

JJBaboon wrote: »

Why would you be able to? WW form is an ultimate. While it is active you are still enjoying the benifits of your ultimate. If you were able to build ulitmate while in WW form, all of the mechanics behind increasing your shifted time would be pointless and WW form would be essentially unlimited. All you are doing is asking why and making no point or argument for why it should be different than it is now...

So you are fine when you drop Standard or Shooting Star or Overload being able to generate ulti BUT not WW? gj man

JJBaboon

I never said any of those things. Good job reading man. All I said is you made no argument for why in your OP... You couldn't have taken two minutes to make a comparison of contrast it against other abilties? Maybe suggest lowering the ulitmate cost or increasing shift times? I didn't say there is no other imbalances in the game... I just asked you why you believed this is the case for WW. Wasn't trying to offend you, I just don't understand the logic. WW builds can rip people apart 1v1 and for many of us, trying to outlast your shift is our only hope. Just seems frightening that those times might increase or even be faced with the prospect of waiting out WW form only to be slammed by an ultimate the second it ends.

Alcast

JJBaboon wrote: »

I never said any of those things. Good job reading man. All I said is you made no argument for why in your OP... You couldn't have taken two minutes to make a comparison of contrast it against other abilties? Maybe suggest lowering the ulitmate cost or increasing shift times? I didn't say there is no other imbalances in the game... I just asked you why you believed this is the case for WW. Wasn't trying to offend you, I just don't understand the logic. WW builds can rip people apart 1v1 and for many of us, trying to outlast your shift is our only hope. Just seems frightening that those times might increase or even be faced with the prospect of waiting out WW form only to be slammed by an ultimate the second it ends.

Poweroverlad is a toogle = able to generate ulti while in Overload

And the fact that there are rarely WWs in PvP but tons of Vamps means smth is off.


I just dont get the point why can we generate ulti points with EVERY other ulti apart from WW

JJBaboon

Poweroverload broken? Spot on, I agree.

Not as many WW in pvp? In PS4 NA there is quite a few but I can't speak for anyone else, however I had assumed the lower WW pop was much more likely due to the fact that there are so many more pvp magicka builds than stam builds from everything I have seen. With the changes to stam coming I don't see that trend changing all that much either. Could be wrong here though.

Since my first response I have been reading and researching and I am coming around. I'm not a WW on any toon yet, so my grief over the system is minimal. But I do have a vampire and the swarm ultimate certainly generates a lot of ultimate back when used right, so I can definitely see your point. I suppose I wouldn't see a problem with them altering it so WW form can generate ultimate. I humbly retract my original response, and this is in no way due to the fact that I found the unstoppable juggernaut build and want to try it......

F7sus4

JJBaboon wrote: »

While it is active you are still enjoying the benifits of your ultimate. If you were able to build ulitmate while in WW form, all of the mechanics behind increasing your shifted time would be pointless and WW form would be essentially unlimited.

This argument is double invalid.

1) You are generating ultimate straight after using any other ultimate and while still taking benefit from it. There no reason for this particular Ultimate to prevent it from happening.

2) Using Ultimate to generate Ultimate is a part of some abilities' mechanics. Soul Harvest is a solid example. You use it to kill, and you gain Ultimate because you kill. Rinse and repeat.

Alcast

Oh and @ZOS_BrianWheeler while you are on it FIX the transformation bug. When i get interrupted OR i press only 1 other button/skill the transformation bugs out and BYEBYE 288 ultipoints..aitn even transforming me

JJBaboon

@F7sus4 not really sure how me describing how the current setup for WW transform is, and the mechanic that it was obviously designed with, makes my argument invalid... My statement still isn't wrong, even if it doesn't take other ultimates into consideration. If WW generated ultimate, they would still likely get unlimited WW form as even while their transform ended they could transform again.. so was that part incorrect? If it isn't, then WW would enjoy unlimited transform rendering the mechanics behind extending their transformed time useless other than to continue generating more ultimate to ensure they could transform again... so was that part incorrect either?

As I said above, no where in my post did I once mention other ultimate abilities or how they are possibly broken. I simply pointed out what is true of the WW ultimate and asked the OP for more information on why he felt this way. Why do people breathe their own ideas into other people's words?

The OP's concern was wanting more WW transform time, not just the factor of ultimate. I even offered other solutions, such as lowering the cost. After he made his point, I retracted my response, agreeing with the fact that WW should possibly generate Ultimate. Read the whole thread before you slander someone's words. And... I still wasn't wrong in anything I said

CP5

This is funny, nice break form the TV stone war. First, ww did generate ultimate in the past but it was worthless as using the ultimate in wolf form simply reverts early. You always lost all ultimate you generated when you revert, timer or by choice, so rather than let the player keep generated ultimate they made it so you no longer generated it in wolf form.

And as for @JJBaboon, you were wrong in your first post alone. More ultimate never has given more time and never bypassed the timer. Before the addition of the new werewolf skills I used to challenge myself to recharge the ultimate (1k worth) in one go. Generating ultimate never gave more time, and the assumption that this ultimate should be needlessly capped as if it weren't enough already, is a bit excessive.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

leepalmer95

JJBaboon wrote: »

Poweroverload broken? Spot on, I agree.

Not as many WW in pvp? In PS4 NA there is quite a few but I can't speak for anyone else, however I had assumed the lower WW pop was much more likely due to the fact that there are so many more pvp magicka builds than stam builds from everything I have seen. With the changes to stam coming I don't see that trend changing all that much either. Could be wrong here though.

Since my first response I have been reading and researching and I am coming around. I'm not a WW on any toon yet, so my grief over the system is minimal. But I do have a vampire and the swarm ultimate certainly generates a lot of ultimate back when used right, so I can definitely see your point. I suppose I wouldn't see a problem with them altering it so WW form can generate ultimate. I humbly retract my original response, and this is in no way due to the fact that I found the unstoppable juggernaut build and want to try it......

werewolf are so terrible in pvp.

Reverb

Brian Wheeler is strictly the pvp guy. He doesn't do skill or combat mechanics. Tagging devs on every complaint, especially when it doesn't relate to their job, decreases the already low liklihood that that they will ever watch for, or respond to, being tagged.

Alcast

Reverb wrote: »

Brian Wheeler is strictly the pvp guy. He doesn't do skill or combat mechanics. Tagging devs on every complaint, especially when it doesn't relate to their job, decreases the already low liklihood that that they will ever watch for, or respond to, being tagged.

Who is the responsible dev then?

CP5

Alcast wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Brian Wheeler is strictly the pvp guy. He doesn't do skill or combat mechanics. Tagging devs on every complaint, especially when it doesn't relate to their job, decreases the already low liklihood that that they will ever watch for, or respond to, being tagged.

Who is the responsible dev then?

Eric and the combat team iirc. However the last time they were asked they said they felt ww was fine, and the last Eric talked of the ww was when the talked about how "reducing the duration made it feel more like an ultimate".

Alcast

CP5 wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Brian Wheeler is strictly the pvp guy. He doesn't do skill or combat mechanics. Tagging devs on every complaint, especially when it doesn't relate to their job, decreases the already low liklihood that that they will ever watch for, or respond to, being tagged.

Who is the responsible dev then?

Eric and the combat team iirc. However the last time they were asked they said they felt ww was fine, and the last Eric talked of the ww was when the talked about how "reducing the duration made it feel more like an ultimate".

lawl.... by that he meant prolly ditch it in the river bc he vamp fandboy

JJBaboon

@CP5 if you generate enough ultimate to transform again the second your first transform ends, that is more time spent as WW. As it stands now when your transform ends you must rebuild your ultimate to transform again.... So I wasn't wrong at all. I never said generating ultimate increased the timer itself... WHY DOES NO ONE READ!!!!

CP5

JJBaboon wrote: »

@CP5 if you generate enough ultimate to transform again the second your first transform ends, that is more time spent as WW. As it stands now when your transform ends you must rebuild your ultimate to transform again.... So I wasn't wrong at all. I never said generating ultimate increased the timer itself... WHY DOES NO ONE READ!!!!

I did, and werewolf is the only ultimate that allows 0 return, all others allow you to build up to the next cast (anyone have a good vid or early bat swarms?). Why should this one ultimate be any different from all the rest?

JJBaboon

OMG.... You STILL haven't read the whole thread. Or my last comment, or any of my other comments I posted for that matter. I already retracted my first comment on the basis of comparison against other ultimates. I already admitted the OP has a point and that WW form maybe should generate ultimate.... BUT I am STILL not wrong in what I said. I understand that it is the only ultimate that allows no return. I've made that clear. We are just going in circles here.... Meeting adjourned.

CP5

JJBaboon wrote: »

OMG.... You STILL haven't read the whole thread. Or my last comment, or any of my other comments I posted for that matter. I already retracted my first comment on the basis of comparison against other ultimates. I already admitted the OP has a point and that WW form maybe should generate ultimate.... BUT I am STILL not wrong in what I said. I understand that it is the only ultimate that allows no return. I've made that clear. We are just going in circles here.... Meeting adjourned.

Yes, sorry about the rather sour tone in my post, all the fighting on the forums hasn't left me in the right mood to write out neutral post. I will say this, as a closing comment, that even if a werewolf did sustain itself off of a high ultimate generation, the double stun (un-transform and re-transform) would likely drive people to stop it themselves. It is also a somewhat common trend (would need a lot more people to talk into it to get a better picture) that the werewolf could even be a toggle as is without being overpowered, but that is just a random aside. And again, I apologize for the aggressive nature of my post, and now done.

SLy_Kyti

ZOS fixed some WW abilities after 9 months of pure agony for those few of us that stayed with it.

One of the fixes was losing the ultimate generated during werewolf form when you transformed back to human. In other words; you did generate ulti when in WW but when you went back to human it reset. Fixing this was either further BROKEN by ZOS so now you generate NO ultimate. Or -- it's working as intended and now, yup, no Ultimate.

The FanBoi as mentioned above has not addressed this since. However, there was little addressed during those looong 9 months before WW's got some changes. I suggest, strongly, that WW users bug the issue, send in help tickets and post about it as if it's bugged. Generally what we did a year ago.

#ZOS:Fix1thingBreakAnother

SLy_Kyti

CP5 wrote: »

.... It is also a somewhat common trend (would need a lot more people to talk into it to get a better picture) that the werewolf could even be a toggle as is without being overpowered, but that is just a random aside. And again, I apologize for the aggressive nature of my post, and now done.

p.s. Asking for a toggle is wasting your time and typing. There will never be a WW toggle. The game code does not support its mechanics and as has been exhaustively written about and one of the few things that ZOS has answered..
They aren't going to re-write a whole bunch of code to make a toggle. Sorry.