IC & Tel´Var Explained

Arato

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp. You can just keep on killing monsters and do your quests without any demand to compete in pvp. Be aware however, other players will be around and so you might need to adjust your "hunting" philosophy to not charge into a group of NPC´s while a group of enemy players is just around the corner.

This paragraph contradicts itself almost entirely. If you want/need TV stones you must go into a PvP zone, and it's not realistic to go into a PvP zone and expect not to PvP, which by definition is competitive and has all the activities associated with it (ganking, zergs etc).

If you are a PvE player and don't want to PvP then the only question that needs asking is can you live without the majority of IC?

Part of that question will be answered this Friday when what the stones will be good to buy is discussed. But anything good is likely to be sold at premium prices, and given the guild trader system in place is likely to be problematic. A huge grind of existing content is likely to get gold to buy.

If you are unsure about IC then the best way to figure it out is to participate in testing on the PTS when it becomes available. But the PTS environment can be very different to live depending on the players there, and is also subject to change by ZOS.

However, this is almost exclusively a PvP content update, and PvE players need to decide if they can work with that. There seems to be no realistic alternatives to progression given by ZOS; it's IC or nothing.

I am a PvE player I am more disappointed that ZOS has made IC the only means of progression, with no viable alternatives available. Whether IC is implement as is or watered down won't make any difference; IC still won't appeal to me as it is fundamentally and primarily PvP.

I did play on a pvp server at WOW for three years. Never did I have to compete in pvp if I didn't want to. You should be able to quest, kill mobs or attack other players as you prefer.
Being on a pvp server or in a pvp zone does not mean you must pvp, its your choice if you do.

This whole thing is especially interesting for stealth characters. Its a lot of fun to sneak through the enemy lines

Besides that, every content patch so far was about PVE, mostly dungeons and raids. I believe its about time that those who want to pvp get something as well.

It's god awful if you play a PVE tank though. No groups want to take under leveled tanks, so you have to get VR16 and you have to get VR16 gear, which means you have to do PVP in order to get your gear at least, if not to get your VR's,, which is HORRIBLE on a tank, because you do almost no damage. It may take a PVP'er longer to kill you but when they do, they'll be at almost full health, every time. There's really no place for tanks in PVP.

LOL, and yet ZOS wants to nerf every tank in game by the mean of "0 stamina regen while blocking" because of fake cries and whines of PVPers claiming that tanks are being OP in pvp and not being able to distinguish real tank from "dps with taunt" or "dps with a sword and board"

Yeah people say that about the full stamina build medium armor wearing dps machine who just happens to have a sword/shield backbar, they call that a "tank" though that wouldn't be tanking anything in PVE.

Taleof2Cities

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

A ganker(s) is player or group of players that preys on "easy" targets, most of the time the ganker(s) are of a higher level or having superior gear and numbers available to him/her.

Its one thing to assign your own definition to something. Its another to expect others to know what your definition is or to behave as if your personal definition is somehow universally acceptable. The universal definition of ganker is not 'someone that targets one person over and over again'. Its someone that attacks easy targets. PvEers who have no experience in PvP would fall within the definition as "easy" targets.

Lucky for them, a ganker has no way to tell a seasoned PVPer from a PVEer. So even then, I doubt they will be singled out as much as they beleive they will.

There will be people fighting everywhere, including your own allies defending you.

Skill rotations are quite telling actually. While a DPS build may be similar, how the skills are rotated and cancelled tells you a lot about who to avoid.

Actually, you should be able to get a good idea of a seasoned PVPer just by looking at their displayed PVP rank insignia.

Sure, there are some seasoned PVPers on Alts ... and another handful of casual PVPers like me who have spent the last year on one or two characters. But, it's way easier to check an opponents PVP insignia rather check a than a skill rotation and trying to PVP at the same time.

I mean insignia in particular because there are quite a few players who still use "recruit" and "tyro" from the title pull-down ... even though their PVP level might be 20 or higher.

This is assuming PVP ranks and insignias are still displayed in the UI through the IC update (no reason to expect that would change, though.)

Audigy

Arato wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp. You can just keep on killing monsters and do your quests without any demand to compete in pvp. Be aware however, other players will be around and so you might need to adjust your "hunting" philosophy to not charge into a group of NPC´s while a group of enemy players is just around the corner.

This paragraph contradicts itself almost entirely. If you want/need TV stones you must go into a PvP zone, and it's not realistic to go into a PvP zone and expect not to PvP, which by definition is competitive and has all the activities associated with it (ganking, zergs etc).

If you are a PvE player and don't want to PvP then the only question that needs asking is can you live without the majority of IC?

Part of that question will be answered this Friday when what the stones will be good to buy is discussed. But anything good is likely to be sold at premium prices, and given the guild trader system in place is likely to be problematic. A huge grind of existing content is likely to get gold to buy.

If you are unsure about IC then the best way to figure it out is to participate in testing on the PTS when it becomes available. But the PTS environment can be very different to live depending on the players there, and is also subject to change by ZOS.

However, this is almost exclusively a PvP content update, and PvE players need to decide if they can work with that. There seems to be no realistic alternatives to progression given by ZOS; it's IC or nothing.

I am a PvE player I am more disappointed that ZOS has made IC the only means of progression, with no viable alternatives available. Whether IC is implement as is or watered down won't make any difference; IC still won't appeal to me as it is fundamentally and primarily PvP.

I did play on a pvp server at WOW for three years. Never did I have to compete in pvp if I didn't want to. You should be able to quest, kill mobs or attack other players as you prefer.
Being on a pvp server or in a pvp zone does not mean you must pvp, its your choice if you do.

This whole thing is especially interesting for stealth characters. Its a lot of fun to sneak through the enemy lines

Besides that, every content patch so far was about PVE, mostly dungeons and raids. I believe its about time that those who want to pvp get something as well.

It's god awful if you play a PVE tank though. No groups want to take under leveled tanks, so you have to get VR16 and you have to get VR16 gear, which means you have to do PVP in order to get your gear at least, if not to get your VR's,, which is HORRIBLE on a tank, because you do almost no damage. It may take a PVP'er longer to kill you but when they do, they'll be at almost full health, every time. There's really no place for tanks in PVP.

Hehe I played with my Druid Tank pvp at WOW, so ya I know how it is in PVP, but I also know how hard it is for a seasoned pvp char to get into a Raid.

People tend to get completely "voodoo" if they see gear from a different piece of content than their own.

I do not know how much of a difference it actually does at ESO, but this is something that for instance could be addressed by ZOS.

In my opinion, gear should be gear and viable everywhere. I am not very keen about content specific items, that said we don't know yet to 100% if VR 16 gear is only available from pvp zones, or if similar might also drop in the dungeons.

Edgemoor

Audigy wrote: »

Edgemoor wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

As you can see, at no point you MUST do pvp. You can just keep on killing monsters and do your quests without any demand to compete in pvp. Be aware however, other players will be around and so you might need to adjust your "hunting" philosophy to not charge into a group of NPC´s while a group of enemy players is just around the corner.

This paragraph contradicts itself almost entirely. If you want/need TV stones you must go into a PvP zone, and it's not realistic to go into a PvP zone and expect not to PvP, which by definition is competitive and has all the activities associated with it (ganking, zergs etc).

If you are a PvE player and don't want to PvP then the only question that needs asking is can you live without the majority of IC?

Part of that question will be answered this Friday when what the stones will be good to buy is discussed. But anything good is likely to be sold at premium prices, and given the guild trader system in place is likely to be problematic. A huge grind of existing content is likely to get gold to buy.

If you are unsure about IC then the best way to figure it out is to participate in testing on the PTS when it becomes available. But the PTS environment can be very different to live depending on the players there, and is also subject to change by ZOS.

However, this is almost exclusively a PvP content update, and PvE players need to decide if they can work with that. There seems to be no realistic alternatives to progression given by ZOS; it's IC or nothing.

I am a PvE player I am more disappointed that ZOS has made IC the only means of progression, with no viable alternatives available. Whether IC is implement as is or watered down won't make any difference; IC still won't appeal to me as it is fundamentally and primarily PvP.

I did play on a pvp server at WOW for three years. Never did I have to compete in pvp if I didn't want to. You should be able to quest, kill mobs or attack other players as you prefer.
Being on a pvp server or in a pvp zone does not mean you must pvp, its your choice if you do.

This whole thing is especially interesting for stealth characters. Its a lot of fun to sneak through the enemy lines

Besides that, every content patch so far was about PVE, mostly dungeons and raids. I believe its about time that those who want to pvp get something as well.

I'd agree in principle, and for the most part in Cyrodil that is the case, but that's mainly because the size and vast empty spaces mean you can avoid the conflict areas easier. In IC I suspect that while the principle may be the same, the practice will be different, since anything you want to grind will be a viable target for anyone else as well. But even so in a PvP area you have to be prepared to PvP and that means either accepting defeat or competing.

As for the whole "the last two content updates have been PvE" I whole heartedly agree a PvP update is due, but PvE solo is also overdue considering we have had a 4 (and now 6) VR increase since Cadell's gold. And for a lot I suspect solo PvE is their preferred means to level. It's not to say PvP or group content is not as viable either, it is. I know many that preferred the latter.

I suspect the issue I have is almost the same as everyone else's and that is the content updates are accompanied by a VR increase that forces you to level and progress using a specific play style. My message to ZOS would be no level update until you have a mixture of content available.

I would much prefer a level increase once we have a choice of play styles rather than constrained to one; PvP, solo PvE (my preferred means to level) and PvE group.

It means if one becomes too stressful, or dull, I can walk away and do something else that is just as relevant to the current level.

I will, however, try it on the PTS and see how things go I may enjoy it

Sleep

Arato

Audigy wrote: »

Hehe I played with my Druid Tank pvp at WOW, so ya I know how it is in PVP, but I also know how hard it is for a seasoned pvp char to get into a Raid.

People tend to get completely "voodoo" if they see gear from a different piece of content than their own.

I do not know how much of a difference it actually does at ESO, but this is something that for instance could be addressed by ZOS.

In my opinion, gear should be gear and viable everywhere. I am not very keen about content specific items, that said we don't know yet to 100% if VR 16 gear is only available from pvp zones, or if similar might also drop in the dungeons.

I'm really hoping none of the sets that come from Tel Var stones have stats that are good for tanking... But, I'm already dreading having to do tel var stones to craft VR16 hist bark.

I don't know how you could do the gear should be viable everywhere.. I mean for medium and light armor it probably is but Heavy armor pretty much only has use in PVE as tanking. All the passives are increased survivability, no damage, and the only resource management relying on you being hit. Get into a group PVP situation and people will just ignore the heavy armor tank while they kill the healers and dps and leave you for last. You can throw some CC's but because you're not being hit to regen resources you run out fast.

Unlike WoW or LOTRO we don't have a quick swap in attribute specs and skill morphs for our builds. If you're a tank, you've got a high amount of attribute points invested into health (if not all of them) and most of your morphs being for improving survivability or reducing enemy damage rather than boosting your own damage, so your damage is pathetic and can't be switched with a toggle. In Burning Crusade a tank druid could just toggle cat form provided they had the gear and did fine dps, and even bear mangle hit decently hard. I'd say building as a tank in TESO is far more restrictive than druid tank in WoW, having played both (I was also a feral druid, but I quit when wrath came out), because even your tanking gear would at least have your primary stat which would help your damage some.

Here your tanking gear results in abysmal damage, and no on the fly switching between multiple specs

if only taunts worked against players.. maybe there'd be a point to being a tank in PVP.

CP5

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Newer generations of gamers can't handle actual risk in games. It's a pity, they don't know what they're missing.

If they stick with the 100% drop rate I would love to see the killer have to go to their victim and take the stones in some animation that expose them. Make it so there is no easy way to swipe stones, but I doubt some pvp players would want that.

Lava_Croft

CP5 wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Newer generations of gamers can't handle actual risk in games. It's a pity, they don't know what they're missing.

If they stick with the 100% drop rate I would love to see the killer have to go to their victim and take the stones in some animation that expose them. Make it so there is no easy way to swipe stones, but I doubt some pvp players would want that.

Revealing yourself as you loot a corpse just like you are revealed when talking to a quest giver would be very neat. It would give the ganker a chance to gank the ganker.

doggie

If I join a IC group dungeon at lvl 10, will I then be upgraded to lvl 50 and can play with everyone between lvl 10-50 ? Or will I have to find a team of lvl 10-15?

Will the group finder work for these dungeons?

What will the loot be for lvl 10-50 characters? Just random blue loot or something better?

KanedaSyndrome

CP5 wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Newer generations of gamers can't handle actual risk in games. It's a pity, they don't know what they're missing.

If they stick with the 100% drop rate I would love to see the killer have to go to their victim and take the stones in some animation that expose them. Make it so there is no easy way to swipe stones, but I doubt some pvp players would want that.

Agreed, it would only make sense to have a looting animation.

eldae

I think what worries me about this system is a) what effect will it have on the pvp population (because there is no real cost to losing a fight (aside from your pride :P) the pvp here is quite accessible) and b) possible loss of co-operative play within your faction (will people be playing selfishly to protect their stones rather than jumping in and helping out?)

will be interesting to see how it pans out on PTS and live anyway...

Tessie

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Newer generations of gamers can't handle actual risk in games. It's a pity, they don't know what they're missing.

I don't think its so much an issue of newer (younger) generations as I do casual vs hard core or play style preferences. This game caters to many different play styles. So when any new content is being released most players are going to look at it in terms of how it fits their play style.

PvP players will be the most happy, as it clearly targets them the most. Group PvE players may also be looking forward to the new dungeons. However, solo PvE players who may otherwise avoid PvP see no clear option of getting the new gear without substantially altering their preferred play style.

The one thing that is generally consistent across all play styles is that we like to see our characters progress and improve themselves. Alternative methods to achieve the same goals is one solution. Allow PvP'ers and Group PvE players to earn stones at a much faster rate, but there should still be some Solo PvE method to earn them at a substantially slower rate.

DDuke

Tessie wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

Newer generations of gamers can't handle actual risk in games. It's a pity, they don't know what they're missing.

I don't think its so much an issue of newer (younger) generations as I do casual vs hard core or play style preferences. This game caters to many different play styles. So when any new content is being released most players are going to look at it in terms of how it fits their play style.

PvP players will be the most happy, as it clearly targets them the most. Group PvE players may also be looking forward to the new dungeons. However, solo PvE players who may otherwise avoid PvP see no clear option of getting the new gear without substantially altering their preferred play style.

The one thing that is generally consistent across all play styles is that we like to see our characters progress and improve themselves. Alternative methods to achieve the same goals is one solution. Allow PvP'ers and Group PvE players to earn stones at a much faster rate, but there should still be some Solo PvE method to earn them at a substantially slower rate.

You mean like the dailies & the unlootable boxes of Tel Var stones?

It's clear ZOS has thought about this, at the moment the issue is just some people feeling every content patch should be tailored specifically for them, without seeing the bigger picture of there being different demographics as well.

Their thought process is: "oh, throw these risk & danger seeking PvPers a bone, but make the main focus me & my type of content"

Kloud

I'm ready for the fun that ic is is gonna bring any any true pvper that had any kinda of skill what so every will feel the same I'm a mediocre pvper at best but I am very excited for the t.v stones loot system I lose alot but I also win just a bit more then I lose and all I honestly do is pvp. Anyone that don't like pvp or losing something you put a bit of time into stay away from ic thats all that can be said and that's all you can do as this is pvp content and pvp means kill other players or be killed or both still earning something from a hard fight is always more fun and brings a aspect to pvp that has really been missing for a long time I mean I've forced my self through 14 dsa runs to get master weapons and have only got 2 out of it can't I say I wasted my time too?

Tessie

@DDuke I'm sorry, I must of misunderstood, I thought when I read about the dailies they were still going to be in the PvP zone. If they aren't in Cyrodil, then thank you so much for clarifying, because that would be great for a player like myself.

My opinion is that every major content release should attempt to benefit as many of the play styles as possible. However, I think it would be wise for ZOS to throw more bones at whichever play style would generate them the most revenue. If 90% of this game is played by PvP'ers then I would fully expect to see many more expansions just like this one, as those players are the ones subsidizing my solo PvE play style, and I'm grateful to them. If the majority is Group PvE, then I would hope to see many more dungeons, as that means those players will continue to play and be happy (and buy things) and keep the game afloat longer so I may continue to play.

DDuke

Tessie wrote: »

@DDuke I'm sorry, I must of misunderstood, I thought when I read about the dailies they were still going to be in the PvP zone. If they aren't in Cyrodil, then thank you so much for clarifying, because that would be great for a player like myself.

My opinion is that every major content release should attempt to benefit as many of the play styles as possible. However, I think it would be wise for ZOS to throw more bones at whichever play style would generate them the most revenue. If 90% of this game is played by PvP'ers then I would fully expect to see many more expansions just like this one, as those players are the ones subsidizing my solo PvE play style, and I'm grateful to them. If the majority is Group PvE, then I would hope to see many more dungeons, as that means those players will continue to play and be happy (and buy things) and keep the game afloat longer so I may continue to play.

You won't have to PvP for those dailies (though you might get attacked by enemy players, just like in anywhere else in Cyrodiil).
The thing with daily quest stones is that you can't lose them even when you die (they're in a box, which you can then safely open at bank & deposit them).

reften

What nobody has thought about is...PvP will be a lot more fun, in traditional areas. Your hardcore gankers will be in IC.

Really looking forward to this. I have a feeling Night's Silence sets are going to be even more popular.

Naphariel

So what happens if I just type /stuck while carrying Tel Var stones?

koetty

May it has been answered before but do we also get XP/AP for killing Players/npcs in IC? Or is this only possible in Cyrdodiil outside the City?

Sharee

koetty wrote: »

May it has been answered before but do we also get XP/AP for killing Players/npcs in IC? Or is this only possible in Cyrdodiil outside the City?

It has been answered during the livestream and the answer is yes, you gain AP normally. They did not specifically mention XP but i think that's a pretty sure bet as well.

Septimus_Magna

Naphariel wrote: »

So what happens if I just type /stuck while carrying Tel Var stones?

You'll probably lose your stones, if not everyone will just port out of IC with /stuck and pay 137 gold instead of using the teleport stones which cost 500 tvs.

Septimus_Magna

koetty wrote: »

May it has been answered before but do we also get XP/AP for killing Players/npcs in IC? Or is this only possible in Cyrdodiil outside the City?

You'll gain XP for killing NPCs and XP+AP for killing players in Imperial City.

Septimus_Magna

reften wrote: »

What nobody has thought about is...PvP will be a lot more fun, in traditional areas. Your hardcore gankers will be in IC.

Really looking forward to this. I have a feeling Night's Silence sets are going to be even more popular.

Vamps will only take 25% increased fire damage so I think vamps will also become very popular.
The sneaking speed and 10% extra regen is really nice, the 25% fire weakness can be reduced with CPs.

Joy_Division

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

...and cause a severe drop in the number of people who will participate in pvp at all.

Why would someone who likes to PvP but does not like IC stop PvP-ing outside of IC?

Those who will leave is the casual pvp'ers. The guys that go to Cyrodiil, join a pug and have some random fun for a few hours. Many of them will feel left out and behind by the IC and overall just go find another game.

The Stone system will also make sure that PvE'ers will never go to IC thus reducing the overall pvp population.

The only type of player that will increase is the griefers, which are not real pvp'ers (I can explain the difference if you want). And they always destroy the community they infest.

Thank you for insulting me. And the 11 people who agreed with you. You talk about destroying our community. With attitudes such as yours, it was already destroyed.

DDuke

Joy_Division wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

...and cause a severe drop in the number of people who will participate in pvp at all.

Why would someone who likes to PvP but does not like IC stop PvP-ing outside of IC?

Those who will leave is the casual pvp'ers. The guys that go to Cyrodiil, join a pug and have some random fun for a few hours. Many of them will feel left out and behind by the IC and overall just go find another game.

The Stone system will also make sure that PvE'ers will never go to IC thus reducing the overall pvp population.

The only type of player that will increase is the griefers, which are not real pvp'ers (I can explain the difference if you want). And they always destroy the community they infest.

Thank you for insulting me. And the 11 people who agreed with you. You talk about destroying our community. With attitudes such as yours, it was already destroyed.

This is true.

I get a lot of "macro user" "exploiter noob" etc from people in PvP, and people throwing fits, leaving groups for various reasons & being overall pain in the arse in PvE, but what bothers me most are these entitled people who come cry on the forums when everything is not made to be about them and made fit their preferences.

The whole notion of people with different preferences getting content for them as well is like poison for them, and they just have to come vomit that poison all over the forums rather than moving on & letting ZOS know what they would like to see in the next content DLC.

FoxPT

Xendyn wrote: »

Ok serious question.
Has anyone picked up on how a healer is going to be able to get TV stones? If we have to depend on killing blows, that could be a problem. Otherwise seems like we'll be depending on the dribs and dabs we get from a group.
I'm talking about out in the city, not the boxes from dailies and such.

I have the same question. As a healer my participation is support not attack so where i gone get my stones. In a group fight when we (as a group) kill a "enemy player" how the loot of the stones will be?

In the last ESO live it was said that the coins from killing mobs will be divided equal, even if is a odd group randomly some player in the group gets one more stone but this means its the same for killing players?

TagaParti

commenting to save.. helpful Sir!

Sureshawt

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

...and cause a severe drop in the number of people who will participate in pvp at all.

Why would someone who likes to PvP but does not like IC stop PvP-ing outside of IC?

Those who will leave is the casual pvp'ers. The guys that go to Cyrodiil, join a pug and have some random fun for a few hours. Many of them will feel left out and behind by the IC and overall just go find another game.

The Stone system will also make sure that PvE'ers will never go to IC thus reducing the overall pvp population.

The only type of player that will increase is the griefers, which are not real pvp'ers (I can explain the difference if you want). And they always destroy the community they infest.

Wrong on so many levels. I'm a causal PvP player and I love this concept of IC. I've actually renewed my subscription.

With risk comes heart pounding excitement and potential of great reward. I don't mind losing some stones to a player that beats me in a 1v1 even if he jumped me in the middle of a fight. Now getting run over by a large group sucks and hurts a bit more but really it just makes me try to be more aware of my surroundings.

I can also tell you from my experience that IC is packed on even lower pop servers so all your statements are presumptuous and false. The only players staying away are those that are afraid to take any kind of risk for stones and many of those are in the dungeons where there is no risk of PvP.

The only type of player that will not participate is the self entitled whiner that always wants things his way and if he doesn't he takes his marbles and goes home. I say good riddance as they always destroy the community they infest.

Oh dam....I necroed a thread! Wooops!

neville_bart0s

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Opposite happens? Sorry i have been taught that one should not enjoy others misfortune.
If someone finds enjoyment in others misfortune i can only think how his parents must be proud of him. Such moral compass, having fun while stealing someone's hours worth of work.

your parents should be ashamed of making someone with such weak character, just quit dude you seem like you would be really good at quitting