Content and rewards are now pay gated, is ESO now p2w?

firstdecan

Inquiring minds want to know.

Akavir_Sentinel

What part of the Imperial City being paid DLC is pay to win?

Enodoc

There was always going to be pay gates for content, that's how DLC works. There are no pay gates on rewards though, since they are BoE and you can send them to anyone, regardless of whether they have the DLC or not. Because of that, I say no, not P2W.

Attorneyatlawl

firstdecan wrote: »

Inquiring minds want to know.

World of Wombats is that way, my friend. In ESO, all of the new stuff can be had by trading with other players. In WoW, it requires a purchase to get in any way or manner at all and is multiple times stronger than everything before it, even the level maximum raise. Good luck paying gold for bind on pickup top tier raid items in World of Wombats.

MissBizz

Enodoc wrote: »

There was always going to be pay gates for content, that's how DLC works. There are no pay gates on rewards though, since they are BoE and you can send them to anyone, regardless of whether they have the DLC or not. Because of that, I say no, not P2W.

Well, the new dungeon set drops will be bind on pickup... BUT... you can subscribe for a month, run them like crazy, and when you unsubscribe you are still able to keep all the gear you earned in the DLC zone

It's not pay to win - we've known for a long time coming new content would be behind a paywall.. DLC... that's exactly what DLC is.. content that you pay for..

[EDIT]Source:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2025658/#Comment_2025658

MSchroeder wrote: »

I can't speak to engineering issues, but let me address some of the itemization questions.

Xael wrote: »

@ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

I am aware there will be new sets but how about sets like Ravager, Morag Tong, Shadow Walker, Archmage, etc? Will these be updated at the launch or are they to be replaced with the new sets and fade into memory (Red Mountain)? I know it took you guys months to finally give us v14 versions of these sets, will you repeat this pattern? Also will be using AP to get these items or will we now need the Tel Var Stones? If so, this makes AP rather useless, especially those of us who are saving it.

About a dozen item sets from Cyrodiil are being updated and re-released in the Rewards for the Worthy and Leaderboard reward mails, and they will be available at every Level and Veteran Rank (including VR 16). Another dozen or so Cyrodiil sets have had their statistics updated, but will not be included in those mails.

Tel Var stones can only be gained and spent inside the Imperial City.

Shall we also assume this new gear will be 'bound' on pick up? This would force players to purchase a subscription and or DLC to have access to the new items.

The item sets in the new dungeons will be Bind on Pickup. However, item sets purchased via Tel Var stones are all Bind on Equip - meaning that you can sell them on Guild Stores or trade them to other players. Further, the crafting materials found in Imperial City can also be sold or traded, and used to craft VR 15 and VR 16 gear at any crafting bench.

BalgusFlinn

NO. Its grind champ points to win!

BalgusFlinn

Akavir_Setinel wrote: »

What part of the Imperial City being paid DLC is pay to win?

Dude, you gotta pay to get into IC. 23 new sets, some of which will be op i am sure. P2w!

PBpsy

No ESO is EFL DWMZ TCX LP CRT VHS MZ FEM TD PMS LC U CE.

Akavir_Sentinel

BalgusFlinn wrote: »

Akavir_Setinel wrote: »

What part of the Imperial City being paid DLC is pay to win?

Dude, you gotta pay to get into IC. 23 new sets, some of which will be op i am sure. P2w!

Having every set in the game doesn't make you a better player, and most of the sets will be trade-able to players that don't have the Imperial City DLC. By the way, you can't "win" an MMO....

ShedsHisTail

PBpsy wrote: »

No ESO is EFL DWMZ TCX LP CRT VHS MZ FEM TD PMS LC U CE.

Clearly.

firstdecan

Enodoc wrote: »

There was always going to be pay gates for content, that's how DLC works. There are no pay gates on rewards though, since they are BoE and you can send them to anyone, regardless of whether they have the DLC or not. Because of that, I say no, not P2W.

The part where the best gear in the game is now behind a paygate. You either pay the price to have a chance at access to the gear, or you wonder where people are getting the hundreds of thousands of gold to trade for good gear.

Honestly, I don't care. I still have 4000 crowns from the conversion, and almost 2 million gold in game. The pay gated items will become a noticeable differentiator in Cyrodiil, frustrate people and cause them to leave, and may not leave enough players to fight in the one campaign that has real PvP.

Besides, this will be something the no lifers exploit to farm these new stones and sell item sets for ridiculous prices. They will become mandatory for DSA \Trials, and only further the elitism in the game (if you can call someone who plays video games for a 12 hours a day elitist). This is just further pushing out barriers of entry to people who don't dedicate their lives to gaming.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO

For the players that did not know that future of any big content of any kind would be DLC, must be spoiled kids. Ofc it will be DLC(Real life money), It's a business not a kindergarten.

I personally more or less hate the game, but get into it or get out of it, now. because it's only the beginning!

dabulls7491

Its a DLC, its not pay to win. Why is this so hard to understand?

psicorpb16_ESO

Lol at World of Wombats @Attorneyatlawl

Acrolas

MissBizz wrote: »

DLC... that's exactly what DLC is.. content that you pay for..

Incorrect. DLC is just any content available online after the initial retail release of a game.

We don't pay for the patches or free updates, but we're paying for convenience items and game packs - the latter of which better referred to as locked content. They've already been downloaded, we just have to pay additional crowns to use them.

redspecter23

Paying for content is a lot different than paying directly for gear, power and lockboxes. You pay for the content once, then you can run it as much as you want (in theory of course, there may be pay gates in there but none are known yet).

It's the difference between being able to buy consumables for gold (or buying mats with gold and crafting them) or having no choice but to buy them for crowns every time they run out. I don't feel the xp pots are pay to win because there is a very viable in game gold version available. Were there not piles of pots all over the place for 4k or less, it would be a different situation.

GreySix

Question: How does one "win" an MMO?

Attorneyatlawl

psicorpb16_ESO wrote: »

Lol at World of Wombats @Attorneyatlawl

, I was hoping someone would pick up on that!

Geegee

dabulls7491 wrote: »

Its a DLC, its not pay to win. Why is this so hard to understand?

This ^^ welcomes to MMO's, new content comes out...adapt or GTFO

redspecter23

GreySix wrote: »

Question: How does one "win" an MMO?

Each person "wins" in a different way which is why pay to win discussions never have any resolution. If I win my owning every mount, then my goal is extremely pay to win. If my goal is just to get to V14 and farm nirncrux all day, then I'll never see how anything could possibly be pay to win as I can win with no extra cost at all.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO

GreySix wrote: »

Question: How does one "win" an MMO?

In WAR, there are no WINNERS!

Grapdjan

All games are p2w. If you don't buy it in the first place you can't win, if you don't buy expacs you get left behind, if you don't by mini-expacs like IC then you get left behind.

MissBizz

Acrolas wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

DLC... that's exactly what DLC is.. content that you pay for..

Incorrect. DLC is just any content available online after the initial retail release of a game.

We don't pay for the patches or free updates, but we're paying for convenience items and game packs - the latter of which better referred to as locked content. They've already been downloaded, we just have to pay additional crowns to use them.

Alright, true enough, DLC is Downloadable Content... although any time ZOS has referred to it, it has been in reference to paid additional content. I don't recall seeing them calling the free game updates DLC's, I have always seen ZOS reference to that as "updates" or "patches".

Ommamar

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

BalgusFlinn wrote: »

Akavir_Setinel wrote: »

What part of the Imperial City being paid DLC is pay to win?

Dude, you gotta pay to get into IC. 23 new sets, some of which will be op i am sure. P2w!

Having every set in the game doesn't make you a better player, and most of the sets will be trade-able to players that don't have the Imperial City DLC. By the way, you can't "win" an MMO....

But that is a perception. Thus the untold number of complaints that this particular build used by this particular player was able to take on this ## of players without being hurt/killed. For the people that have made those complaints that person has "won" the game.

I think that IC should of been an unpaid update just because it had been presented as a core update to the game since it was mentioned. I also see it widening the gap that already exists between the "elite" player and the mid level/low level player from a pvp point of view which is what the strength of a class/build is based off of. The fact that you the gear you gain while subscribed can be used after your subscription lapse is very open for exploitation.

I also think that making the keeps around the city as the trigger point is going to further the effect of one faction "owning" a campaign so it will be a rare push that limits the majority faction from not having access to IC which will be reset once the players involved in the push go back to their usual campaign.

Acrolas

"ESO Plus offers members exclusive in-game bonuses, a reoccurring allotment of crowns and access to all downloadable content (DLC) game packs for the duration of membership."

Everybody keeps focusing on the DLC part, but that's just an adjective in this context. Game packs are what you're buying or renting. They're a subset of the various DLC available for the game.

hoyle777b14_ESO

Yes you have to pay for new content. Good thats the way it works. Quit being butthurt freeloaders and support the game you claim to love. I am still paying monthly I have been paying monthly since launch and have been a bit upset myself at the lack of content. Now with the IC release if they continue to make new content in a timely fasion I will be completely happy with spending my $15 a month....because I know my payments are driving the production of the new content you non-sub players feel entitled to.

GreySix

hoyle777b14_ESO wrote: »

Yes you have to pay for new content. Good thats the way it works. Quit being butthurt freeloaders and support the game you claim to love.

Minor nitpick: I love my wife.

I like many aspects of the game (while disliking others). I certainly don't love it.

NovaMarx

It's an expansion. And like most expansions you will have to pay for it, especially in a B2P MMO. This shouldn't come as a surprise (look at WoW). Besides delivering updates and content in the future is not free. Ever since ESO became B2P ZoS need their continued funds to come from somewhere. If the game was still subscription based it might have been free or cheaper.

But 2500 Crowns is what limited mounts have gone for in the past, and many many have gladly paid for them. So I don't really see paying 2500 Crowns for new content as unreasonable price-wise.

hoyle777b14_ESO

Minor nitpick: I love my wife.

I like many aspects of the game (while disliking others). I certainly don't love it.

Minor Nitpick recognized, Statement Retracted.

But 2500 Crowns is what limited mounts have gone for in the past, and many many have gladly paid for them. So I don't really see paying 2500 Crowns for new content as unreasonable price-wise.

^^^This so much. New content costs money to produce so they charge money to own. Please buy it so the new stuff keeps on getting released....

UltimaJoe777

Acrolas wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

DLC... that's exactly what DLC is.. content that you pay for..

Incorrect. DLC is just any content available online after the initial retail release of a game.

We don't pay for the patches or free updates, but we're paying for convenience items and game packs - the latter of which better referred to as locked content. They've already been downloaded, we just have to pay additional crowns to use them.

How many DLCs have you seen be free? Not many right?

Grapdjan wrote: »

All games are p2w. If you don't buy it in the first place you can't win, if you don't buy expacs you get left behind, if you don't by mini-expacs like IC then you get left behind.

No because some games just plain lose, such as life.


Indeed though some games you can get ahead by paying for stuff but not this one. So what if the new IC sets are uber almighty? Give a rookie a nuclear warhead and they might just blow up an ocean instead of their target. Takes more than good gear to "win" and as was stated already "winning" is in the eyes of the beholder.

GreenSoup2HoT

Im still going to buy the dlc, eso+ is a waste.