Upcoming Shadow Cloak changes - Proposal for consideration

Leandor

Let me start of by saying that I main as a stamina based nightblade and as such have most to gain from this change. That said, I would like to make the following proposal without sparking a discussion on my eligibility to make it.

It was announced that the night blade ability shadow cloak in the future will not be cancelled by detection potions, not much more information has been given.

I would like to consolidate the information received so far and also to give my thoughts on a proposed modification of the change. Let me recap first.

• Shadow Cloak and all Morphs will provide immunity to detection potions
• Radiant Magelight will still be able to uncover cloaked targets
• Damage will still uncover cloaked targets

Please correct me if I am wrong on these assumptions.

Currently, cloak has two morphs, one of them removes DoTs, the other one provides an increased crit chance while under it's influence. While the DoT-Morph is widely used in PvP, the crit morph seems to be less usefull once you have a thoroughly equipped character - crit rates in the range of 60-70% are easily achievable, making the improvement to 100% for a single attack lacklustre. On the other hand, the DoT removal morph is also not very useful in PvE, since DoTs play a role mainly in group content where dedicated healers usually run some means of mass purge ability (The last part is conjecture - the only group content I personally enjoy and regularly take part in is PvP, so feel free to again correct me). Thus, both morphs of this ability have relatively little use in PvE aside from the base functionality to render one invisible.

Now, this time with view on PvP mainly, the counters available against cloak:

• DoTs continuing to tick while cloaked, each damage tick will break cloak
• Delayed damage attacks (namely curse & inevitable)
• Radiant Magelight morph. Inner light does not provide this functionality anymore. Not sure about the base ability atm.
• Untargeted AoE attacks will hit the cloaker and break cloak. Rumor is that Steel Tornado will miss, maybe this is only true for magicka based AoE (confirmation appreciated)
• Mass CC seems to be working as well. I have personally been taloned while cloaked many times and I have used a lucky fear to also bring a cloaker to light. Again, the crucial feature seems to be the untargetted nature.
• Detecion Pots.

Of all these counters, the most used ones are the DoT/Delayed damage and Detection pots. The others are unreliable (most AoE requires you to be nearby the target), inconvenient (radiant's only benefit at the cost of one or even two skill slots) or dubious (sometimes, CC effects miss you or you dodge them).

Coming back to the two available morphs, one of them reduces the dependable countermeasures by a large amount, since the only abilities still functioning for this are either class restricted or gated behind a significant investment into PvP. The Dark Cloak morph removes all normal DoTs from this equation while the Shadowy Disguise morph is basically redundant.

Please consider to make the Potion immunity a feature of the Shadowy Disguise morph only. This way, both morphs have a viability and both morphs have remaining dependable counters. If any, make the 100% crit for a single attack be a perk that both morphs provide - it is of little effect anyways. Please note that I would also be very happy with the crit chance perk removal, should that be a balance concern.

The viability of either morph for PvE is still minor aside from the base benefit, with Dark Cloak being slightly more useful for solo play. Now if the Shadowy Disguise thing would give invisibility to things like "watchdog" type NPCs, it would be a very nice alternative also. Bear in mind that City Guards would still have to have the detection ability as they are supposed to be the punishment mechanism for the justice system.

NB: Tagging some people just for raising awareness: @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_EricWrobel @ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_BrianWheeler
NB: Interesting... With Eric's handle you do not get the usual pop-up... Any "conspiracy theorytists" out there?

StrykerTheElite

They should remove crit and just add extend time in stealth , this would add more in pve and also make it option in pvp.

Leandor

Sad thing that this got just one comment. I would have thought that there is more concern in regards to the potion change.

AlnilamE

Does Dark cloak actually remove DoTs?
Because the times I tried it, it didn't seem to work.

Leandor

It works like a charm, nowadays. One of those they finally stomped out for good.

Sneaky-Snurr

AlnilamE wrote: »

Does Dark cloak actually remove DoTs?
Because the times I tried it, it didn't seem to work.

Remove DoTs? Like @Leandor said, it works like a charm but there are still times when you could break out of cloak for no reason. With the skill fix (hope this one fixes it completely) coming up in the next major update, I'm excited to finally see cloak and its morphs to work properly and enhance NBs' survival (especially stam NBs).

leepalmer95

Whats the point in detection pots if they don't detect? , magelight has a terrible area as i assume that the medium armor passives work against it.

Literally i can hardly break people out of cloak nowdays, dot's are removed, as a fire dk i don't have viable aoes to break them out.

So next patch i will be forced to use an ineffective counter as magelight doesn't have enough range and detection pots will be made redundant.

Xendyn

Leandor wrote: »

NB: Tagging some people just for raising awareness: @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_EricWrobel @ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_BrianWheeler
NB: Interesting... With Eric's handle you do not get the usual pop-up... Any "conspiracy theorytists" out there?

I don't believe he's on the forums

notimetocare

Terrible idea is terrible. You would just turn the tables and force NBs to run purge and the cloak that prevents detection.

Atlaz

Cloak for the most part is just used more for a quick attack critical and a pause in attack if someone is targeting you. If you wanted to do real stealth hits you would use bow. If I made a NB I would be spamming mark target all the time.

revonine

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Does Dark cloak actually remove DoTs?
Because the times I tried it, it didn't seem to work.

Remove DoTs? Like @Leandor said, it works like a charm but there are still times when you could break out of cloak for no reason. With the skill fix (hope this one fixes it completely) coming up in the next major update, I'm excited to finally see cloak and its morphs to work properly and enhance NBs' survival (especially stam NBs).

It's a lifesaver against stray siege shots especially. I can't wait for this change as my magicka nightblade relies on cloak for survivability and mobility as we're that much more squishy.

Leandor

I would prefer also to keep detection pots the way they are - breaking all forms of cloak, and that's from a player whose main char is a stamina nightblade. But if they intend to go through with the change, then at least limit it to one morph.

BuggeX

@Leandor

where did you heard about the info with DPots?

i never heard it from Zos, i never read it in Notes, so from where do you take this Info?

Knootewoot

I just read that detection potions will still reveal you.

Leandor

Yes, and this is a godsend. By far the most preferred solution.

@BuggeX it was purported in some lengthy discussion here with a reference to either an ESO live broadcast or a reddit post. I did never have a definitive source for the change, but I wanted to give an option in case they would go through with that.

Aerieth

Keep Cloak and it's morphs as it is and just give us potions that make your abilities and attacks ignore damage shields (counter to most Sorcs), make you immune to fire based skills and effects (counter to most Dragon Knights) and a third effect to make your attacks reduce target healing by 100% (counter to most Templars). Then we're even. [/sarcasm]

Honestly though. Detection potions are the bane of my existence.

Sneaky-Snurr

Aerieth wrote: »

Keep Cloak and it's morphs as it is and just give us potions that make your abilities and attacks ignore damage shields (counter to most Sorcs), make you immune to fire based skills and effects (counter to most Dragon Knights) and a third effect to make your attacks reduce target healing by 100% (counter to most Templars). Then we're even. [/sarcasm]

Honestly though. Detection potions are the bane of my existence.

Why did you resurrect a thread from almost 2 months back? xD

GrimMauKin

For some reason, Shadow Cloak never seemed to cancel fire DOT for me; it was pretty good for everything else.

Aerieth

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

Keep Cloak and it's morphs as it is and just give us potions that make your abilities and attacks ignore damage shields (counter to most Sorcs), make you immune to fire based skills and effects (counter to most Dragon Knights) and a third effect to make your attacks reduce target healing by 100% (counter to most Templars). Then we're even. [/sarcasm]

Honestly though. Detection potions are the bane of my existence.

Why did you resurrect a thread from almost 2 months back? xD

Because reasons, of course! Honestly though, there are still issues with the Cloak and the detection potion, so this thread is still very much relevant.