When all the stars align - Sorcerer Burst PvP

Sypher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWApDC-9Ec4

I nerded out, forgive me.

Waylander

Haha dawnbreaker OP. Knocked em over like 10 pins.

Sypher

Waylander wrote: »

Haha dawnbreaker OP. Knocked em over like 10 pins.

was not expecting it at all

Mr_Nobody

You should try streaking into blobs with dawnbreaker and proximity detonation. And then streaking out, would be like... a bypassing AP collector. Thats what I do on my templar, sadly, misting away doesnt look so sexy.

NightSky

I do have to say that was quite a show. Nice timing on the Dawnbreaker.

lifefrombelowb14_ESO

Why are none of them past VR12?

Sypher

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

Why are none of them past VR12?

paid actors.

Nallenil

Funny how "glass canon" builds are not so much made out of "glass"... their shields are lead nuclear blast shields. How do you counter insane shields, raw power and disables?

Derra

I somewhat feel that cornering yourself into a tight space is not using a sorc to it´s full potential - however you would never get those ppl to stand all together to get dawmbreakered in the wild.

ToRelax

Derra wrote: »

I somewhat feel that cornering yourself into a tight space is not using a sorc to it´s full potential - however you would never get those ppl to stand all together to get dawmbreakered in the wild.

Minefield is deadly in such corners, as we just saw.

Sypher

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

EIGHTS

All I can said 'You're luck'.

Soulac

ToRelax wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I somewhat feel that cornering yourself into a tight space is not using a sorc to it´s full potential - however you would never get those ppl to stand all together to get dawmbreakered in the wild.

Minefield is deadly in such corners, as we just saw.

I don't dare to fight a sorc in small rooms or corners. Not even with whitestrake and a few nirn pieces.. :P

Septimus_Magna

@Sypher Nice glass canon build, do you also use:
-4x Martial Knowledge
-2x Adroitness
-2x Cyrodiil's Light
-2x Worm Cult
-2x Torugs Pact
The 3k+ spell damage build is great for small scale pvp, sustain is pretty hard with only 210 CPs though.
Ive hit guys with 16k crystal frags (after the multi proc fix), 12k curses and 19k prox detonations.

Lionxoft

Poor video quality. Anyone able to see how hard it hit?

Erock25

Lionxoft wrote: »

Poor video quality. Anyone able to see how hard it hit?

I wish video recorders would use combat cloud instead of FTC for pop up text. It is much clearer to read. Also having recount CLS or whatever it is called for a scrolling combat text within a box graphic would be nice too.

Rook_Master

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

Thank you for being reasonable about Hardened Ward. It should scale off of health just like Blazing Shield.

Ghostbane

Lionxoft wrote: »

Poor video quality. Anyone able to see how hard it hit?

Last attack DPS: 79,168

I can make out 6 targets, so average per target: 13,194

Septimus_Magna

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

All CCs and physical attacks are perfectly fine counters against shield stackers imo.
A sorc can only break-free 2-3 times with a full stamina pool and you cant recast shields while you're CCed.

For exampel: if a stam NB ambushes>fears>wrecking blows me I have to use 2/3 of my stamina to block and break-free and my entire 14k Hardened Ward is gone. Now I have to cast healing ward and hardened ward while the NB can continue his burst draining my stamina when I need to avoid getting CCed.

I dont know how good the stamina NBs on the NA server are but most good sorcs I know on the EU server have a hard time fighting good stam NBs, especially if they have unlocked Vigor. They dodge all cfrags and they're smart enough not to come close to the mines.

Soulac

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

All CCs and physical attacks are perfectly fine counters against shield stackers imo.
A sorc can only break-free 2-3 times with a full stamina pool and you cant recast shields while you're CCed.

For exampel: if a stam NB ambushes>fears>wrecking blows me I have to use 2/3 of my stamina to block and break-free and my entire 14k Hardened Ward is gone. Now I have to cast healing ward and hardened ward while the NB can continue his burst draining my stamina when I need to avoid getting CCed.

I dont know how good the stamina NBs on the NA server are but most good sorcs I know on the EU server have a hard time fighting good stam NBs, especially if they have unlocked Vigor. They dodge all cfrags and they're smart enough not to come close to the mines.

You mean that you're not able to break free more than 2-3 times.
Nearly all Sorcs I fought got plenty of stamina to break every single stun while still being able to hit really hard.
Which NB is using WB? O.o

Ahzek

@Septimus_Magna it take it you are running drinks with that setup in order to survive against any decent player.
I myself have played a very similar setup as well ever since the release of 1.6 and have switched it up just a few days ago.

I have to say damn have i been doing it wrong ! (And you too xP)
Simply by using magnus and healer for my magicka sustain and bloodspawn for a bit of stamina but taking food i have pretty much the very same damage values (Oho 100less on my curse ) while having 5k higher combined shields from harness and hardened.

If you insist of sticking with your setup (like i have for all thesemonths even though i knew better) i would still advise you ro get 2 more pieces cyrodiils light instead of wormcult. The damage decrease is marginal (1.8 k magicka are almost as good as those 170 spelldmg ) and you get a little more breathing room with your shields.

Just some helpfull advice since it took me ages to stop tormenting myself any longer and just giving in to the easy way =(

Septimus_Magna

Ahzek wrote: »

@Septimus_Magna it take it you are running drinks with that setup in order to survive against any decent player.
I myself have played a very similar setup as well ever since the release of 1.6 and have switched it up just a few days ago.

I have to say damn have i been doing it wrong ! (And you too xP)
Simply by using magnus and healer for my magicka sustain and bloodspawn for a bit of stamina but taking food i have pretty much the very same damage values (Oho 100less on my curse ) while having 5k higher combined shields from harness and hardened.

If you insist of sticking with your setup (like i have for all thesemonths even though i knew better) i would still advise you ro get 2 more pieces cyrodiils light instead of wormcult. The damage decrease is marginal (1.8 k magicka are almost as good as those 170 spelldmg ) and you get a little more breathing room with your shields.

Just some helpfull advice since it took me ages to stop tormenting myself any longer and just giving in to the easy way =(

Thank you for the advice.

In my experience tri-stat food is a lot better for magicka builds. Magicka buffs my shields and my health and stamina would be way too low without it. I have multiple builds for different situations, for example for group play: 4x Martial/4x Healer/1x Blood Spawn/2x Torugs (destro/resto) but the spell damage is only 2.4k buffed.

The DW/resto max spell damage build is so effective because the major sorcery buff increases my spell damage by 20% along 2% for every sorc skill. High base spell damage increased by 28-32% results in very high damage. Also my max magicka is 33k which should be more than enough for a decent burst.

Harness magicka is actually working against me if Im fighting stam builds because it can look like Im shielded while Im not. I usally dont have much trouble with magicka builds because I can stack hardened ward and harness magicka, plus I get magicka back when my shields get hit.

I can try to switch out 2x Cyrodiils Light and 2x Adroitness for 4x Healer for extra magicka and magicka regen though.

Septimus_Magna

Soulac wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

All CCs and physical attacks are perfectly fine counters against shield stackers imo.
A sorc can only break-free 2-3 times with a full stamina pool and you cant recast shields while you're CCed.

For exampel: if a stam NB ambushes>fears>wrecking blows me I have to use 2/3 of my stamina to block and break-free and my entire 14k Hardened Ward is gone. Now I have to cast healing ward and hardened ward while the NB can continue his burst draining my stamina when I need to avoid getting CCed.

I dont know how good the stamina NBs on the NA server are but most good sorcs I know on the EU server have a hard time fighting good stam NBs, especially if they have unlocked Vigor. They dodge all cfrags and they're smart enough not to come close to the mines.

You mean that you're not able to break free more than 2-3 times.
Nearly all Sorcs I fought got plenty of stamina to break every single stun while still being able to hit really hard.
Which NB is using WB? O.o

Nope, with max spell damage I dont get a lot of stamina regen, and yes Im a werewolf.
Also I cant compensate much with CPs because I only have 210 CPs or something.

Maybe I need to chuck tri-stat pots like there's no tomorrow but Id rather not.

When the latency is going up there can be a delay for breaking-free from fear, some NBs use this delay to cast WB without getting interrupted.

[Edit] Just to clarify, this is not a dueling build or something, its build small scale pvp with high burst damage.

Ezareth

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

It has nothing to do with Hardened ward and everything to do with unlimited resources as you well know.

Cinn and I fought a V14 Sorc in cracked wood cave non stop for a good 10 minutes yesterday. I feared him as soon as he was vulnerable consistently but he did nothing but Spam mines and shields and streak over and over ad ifinitum without concern for cost. Finally brought him down after he forgot to refresh his shields for a split second (which is the only way this was going to end).

I remember when I was freaking *Emperor* I could only cast mines 6 or 7 times back in 1.5 before being completely out of mana. It isn't that mines are too cheap or hardened ward too cheap, it is that the resource regeneration exceeds the global cooldown cost of the ability and that is why PvP is so damn annoying any more.

We're slowly training ourselves to not care about resource management because it isn't necessary. Just spam keys, abilities, and defensive cooldowns with abandon until your opponent is dead or you are.

Ezareth

Soulac wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

All CCs and physical attacks are perfectly fine counters against shield stackers imo.
A sorc can only break-free 2-3 times with a full stamina pool and you cant recast shields while you're CCed.

For exampel: if a stam NB ambushes>fears>wrecking blows me I have to use 2/3 of my stamina to block and break-free and my entire 14k Hardened Ward is gone. Now I have to cast healing ward and hardened ward while the NB can continue his burst draining my stamina when I need to avoid getting CCed.

I dont know how good the stamina NBs on the NA server are but most good sorcs I know on the EU server have a hard time fighting good stam NBs, especially if they have unlocked Vigor. They dodge all cfrags and they're smart enough not to come close to the mines.

You mean that you're not able to break free more than 2-3 times.
Nearly all Sorcs I fought got plenty of stamina to break every single stun while still being able to hit really hard.
Which NB is using WB? O.o

Pretty much this. Most of the good sorcs have long ago exceeded the Stamina regeneration required to break-free permanently. The only way you're going to run a good sorc out of stamina is.....you can't.

And I use WB on my NB....call me late to the party but I find the skill and timing required to consistently land it to be enjoyable. I also love when people still try to bash it.

Ahzek

@Septimus_Magna stamina sustain is the biggest reason i was assuming you used drinks since it is rather hard to fight "any decent player" player with such low stamina sustain. (Note i dont use pots so that always scews my view of things a bit)
Of course CP will sooner or later turn all of this obsolete and your racial passives help you a good deal reaching your 33k magicka while still retaining decent sustain.
About harness vs. Stam builds while it takes a while to get used to using it against stam builds is mandatory in my opinion.
Almsot all stamina builds still use a magick damage ultimate to try and finish you off (only DKs have their leap) and it also absorbs small amounts of damage from sources like enchantments, blazing shield, the burning condition, etc. .

Another thing to note is that i mostly felt like my old build was underperforming when fighting othere sorcerers. Against other classes playing your cards right and exploiting their mistakes can often give you the win, but sorcs who build for over 22k combined shields can nit be burts down that easily if they understand the slightes but of combat mechanics.
Now its still equally draining to down a decent sorc but at least i am now able to stay offensive more often than not because i can rely on my shields (17k combined with my pure spelldmg build) to not break on every curse+frag combo.

ToRelax

Ahzek wrote: »

@Septimus_Magna stamina sustain is the biggest reason i was assuming you used drinks since it is rather hard to fight "any decent player" player with such low stamina sustain. (Note i dont use pots so that always scews my view of things a bit)
Of course CP will sooner or later turn all of this obsolete and your racial passives help you a good deal reaching your 33k magicka while still retaining decent sustain.
About harness vs. Stam builds while it takes a while to get used to using it against stam builds is mandatory in my opinion.
Almsot all stamina builds still use a magick damage ultimate to try and finish you off (only DKs have their leap) and it also absorbs small amounts of damage from sources like enchantments, blazing shield, the burning condition, etc. .

Another thing to note is that i mostly felt like my old build was underperforming when fighting othere sorcerers. Against other classes playing your cards right and exploiting their mistakes can often give you the win, but sorcs who build for over 22k combined shields can nit be burts down that easily if they understand the slightes but of combat mechanics.
Now its still equally draining to down a decent sorc but at least i am now able to stay offensive more often than not because i can rely on my shields (17k combined with my pure spelldmg build) to not break on every curse+frag combo.

RinaldoGandolphi

Ezareth wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

It has nothing to do with Hardened ward and everything to do with unlimited resources as you well know.

Cinn and I fought a V14 Sorc in cracked wood cave non stop for a good 10 minutes yesterday. I feared him as soon as he was vulnerable consistently but he did nothing but Spam mines and shields and streak over and over ad ifinitum without concern for cost. Finally brought him down after he forgot to refresh his shields for a split second (which is the only way this was going to end).

I remember when I was freaking *Emperor* I could only cast mines 6 or 7 times back in 1.5 before being completely out of mana. It isn't that mines are too cheap or hardened ward too cheap, it is that the resource regeneration exceeds the global cooldown cost of the ability and that is why PvP is so damn annoying any more.

We're slowly training ourselves to not care about resource management because it isn't necessary. Just spam keys, abilities, and defensive cooldowns with abandon until your opponent is dead or you are.

Bingo! Resource management concerning magic, or stamina if its focused on for that matter, is pretty much a non-issue.

Ahzek

@ToRelax Dont you dare starting me on this again !
Dunmer OP !

Maulkin

Ezareth wrote: »

And I use WB on my NB....call me late to the party but I find the skill and timing required to consistently land it to be enjoyable. I also love when people still try to bash it.

You wait until you run into one of those Stamina, S&B, mace-penetrating, bash spamming builds that do 5k per bash twice per second while permablocking. You're not gonna love it so much then.

Eejit1331

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

@Nallenil I personally think this metas low cost / effecient abilities are to blame. Shields, hardened ward in particular could definitely be toned down. There are currently no hard counters to shields, you just have to dps, and dps fast and hard (~_~). Curios to see what the next meta brings.

@Derra this is a very unorthodox way I play my sorc, I can do the open field playstyle but I don't back away from getting in tight places with enemies, the burst potential is definitely there and deadly.

All CCs and physical attacks are perfectly fine counters against shield stackers imo.
A sorc can only break-free 2-3 times with a full stamina pool and you cant recast shields while you're CCed.

For exampel: if a stam NB ambushes>fears>wrecking blows me I have to use 2/3 of my stamina to block and break-free and my entire 14k Hardened Ward is gone. Now I have to cast healing ward and hardened ward while the NB can continue his burst draining my stamina when I need to avoid getting CCed.

I dont know how good the stamina NBs on the NA server are but most good sorcs I know on the EU server have a hard time fighting good stam NBs, especially if they have unlocked Vigor. They dodge all cfrags and they're smart enough not to come close to the mines.

^^^ this. At low levels harden ward seems op, but once stamina user have vigor then it's even playing field as Sorcs have no viable quick burst heal. Harden ward is used in PVE with double destro or destro and DW, for some people. Saying the resto staff is the solution dramatically affects pve diversity.