Racial Passives and Balance (thoughts?)

G0dsend

So the discussion of racial passives has been brought up before... We know they are imbalanced, and that the devs are likely working on updating the racial and or implementing race changes... I had a random thought and wanted to see what the community and/or devs think. What if both race and class decided your racial passives?

Deltia already suggested that every race have a passive that affects attribute bonuses, and I agree with that. But with eso we are trying to juggle the sandbox feel, balance of the races and classes, while maintaining the identity of each race and class.... Seems a bit like and impossible task. I feel this sort of idea is a sort of compromise on the racial passive front and can help provide a little bit of each of these things.... My example:

Kahjit Racials:
Sorcerer: Stealthy, Dynamic, Medium Armor Expertise, Carnage
Nightblade: Conditioning, Stealthy, Carnage, Medium Armor Expertise
Dragon Knight: Brawny, Carnage, Swift, Medium Armor Expertise
Templar: Spell Charge, Stealthy, Gift of Jone and Jode (bonus X% healing), Restoration Expertise

Disclaimer: Now this is just a quickly thought up example.

Does this make all playstyles viable on Kahjiit? No, but it makes more viable than before, and every class is playable (albeit under a certain niche). Does this destroy the lore or identity of the Kahjiit? No, although it might bend it a little. With proper thought put into it you could use a system like this to make every race have its own unique niche or playstyle with each class. This seems like a fun idea to me, but others could disagree. I submit my idea to the eso community.

Zheg

This is actually a cool idea. I think it will be hard for ZOS to implement because it would require some thought and actual balance, but kudos for coming up with a suggestion that I haven't seen proposed yet.

All I want is my crit damage back on my khajiit

xoduspaladin

I agree, good insight at the very least. Also don't think Zinimax would implement it as changing up the system now (as broken as it is) would probably effect other things that may be just too much of a hassle to balance out. Plus the cry fest would be lengendary from the players...

Tolmos

Another reason I think they might not do it is that it would pidgin hole classes into respective roles. Example:

"Dragon Knight: Brawny, Carnage, Swift, Medium Armor Expertise"

I have seen many DK casters. If every race goes along a similar line, you could end up with DKs being pidgin-holed into melee only.

I'm not saying your idea is bad, I'm just pointing out that it could lead to less overall viable options endgame if done incorrectly.

IWannaBeATiger

@Tolmos Well I'm sure that the altmer would have more magicka related passives for DK. It sounds like they want to make it so that certain races don't rule out that class.

G0dsend

Well that would be the point, every race would be different with each class. The only reason that one happens to be melee dps is well, because kahjiit. Each race should have a different variation on the class.

Dradhok

Tolmos wrote: »

Another reason I think they might not do it is that it would pidgin hole classes into respective roles. Example:

"Dragon Knight: Brawny, Carnage, Swift, Medium Armor Expertise"

I have seen many DK casters. If every race goes along a similar line, you could end up with DKs being pidgin-holed into melee only.

I'm not saying your idea is bad, I'm just pointing out that it could lead to less overall viable options endgame if done incorrectly.

I agree that there should be better balance but would hate to see classes "pidgin holed." Perhaps there is a a compromise that would offer yet another level of customization. We could have a menus of racial type bonuses offered at character creation.

IWannaBeATiger

What would the point of having racials be then? Racials should be based on the race not pick 4 buffs you'd like.

Dradhok

IWannaBeATiger wrote: »

What would the point of having racials be then? Racials should be based on the race not pick 4 buffs you'd like.

Probably so, so we should just be happy with how it was designed.

Snowgoons

Why not just give you a set amount of character creation points, and let you purchase the racials you want, with really good ones being more expensive almost like call of duty did with that pick 5 or pick 10 whatever system it was?

IWannaBeATiger

Dradhok wrote: »

IWannaBeATiger wrote: »

What would the point of having racials be then? Racials should be based on the race not pick 4 buffs you'd like.

Probably so, so we should just be happy with how it was designed.

Pick a different race then that is closer to what you want don't just turn racials into pick some extra buffs. If you want to be a certain race then you'll have to make some allowances.

Snowgoons

IWannaBeATiger wrote: »

Dradhok wrote: »

IWannaBeATiger wrote: »

What would the point of having racials be then? Racials should be based on the race not pick 4 buffs you'd like.

Probably so, so we should just be happy with how it was designed.

Pick a different race then that is closer to what you want don't just make racials pick some free buffs.

Trying to decipher what you are trying to say but in response: You should never be forced in a game to pick something you don't like the look or feel of, due to stats. That's why "racials" have always been stupid in any MMO.

Final Fantasy XIV you see people just having a blast playing whatever they want with whatever class they want, the freedom of actually changing your class is great there too, too bad I just didn't enjoy the grind of the game or the forced party setups to enter a dungeon, you should never be forced to make a "perfect" group just to enter a dungeon, so they got that wrong over there.

However racials really mess up this game, they are still trying to balance them with every patch, Argonians are still getting sht on, and "oh just pick another race or wait for ZOS to add something cool" should not be the answer.

Snowgoons

And thats why i suggest a system where you invest points in what you want racial wise with better racials costing more, why can't an Argonian train in fire resistance or added fire damage like a dark elf? Argonians get pretty wet and wild, and I am sure some mage could teach the art of fire to your character.

It just would add so much depth and unlock what seems to be pointlessly locked, racials honestly don't even matter, but it's a shame they are so locked to the races,

also @ZOS

if you are going to have a single class that is like 99% fire based, don't put a race in with bonus fire damage, and that's not your guys' fault, that's just min maxers going nuts having to have that extra damage, but it still was ignorant for ZOS to put in, to compare Argonians get faster swim speed yet pvp waters are infested with man eating fish, why not add some sort of backfire to dark elf racial? It's not fair because it wasn't intended to be fair. This is why racials are stupid.

and im not for nerfing dark elves to any ppl who get mad that was just an example.

IWannaBeATiger

@Snowgoons what you are suggesting is removing racials so don't call it that. Character traits are closer to what you mean and they could even add negative traits which you could pick to give you more points to spend.

G0dsend

Well my topic was completely derailed.

Junkogen

G0dsend wrote: »

So the discussion of racial passives has been brought up before... We know they are imbalanced, and that the devs are likely working on updating the racial and or implementing race changes... I had a random thought and wanted to see what the community and/or devs think. What if both race and class decided your racial passives?

Deltia already suggested that every race have a passive that affects attribute bonuses, and I agree with that. But with eso we are trying to juggle the sandbox feel, balance of the races and classes, while maintaining the identity of each race and class.... Seems a bit like and impossible task. I feel this sort of idea is a sort of compromise on the racial passive front and can help provide a little bit of each of these things.... My example:

Kahjit Racials:
Sorcerer: Stealthy, Dynamic, Medium Armor Expertise, Carnage
Nightblade: Conditioning, Stealthy, Carnage, Medium Armor Expertise
Dragon Knight: Brawny, Carnage, Swift, Medium Armor Expertise
Templar: Spell Charge, Stealthy, Gift of Jone and Jode (bonus X% healing), Restoration Expertise

Disclaimer: Now this is just a quickly thought up example.

Does this make all playstyles viable on Kahjiit? No, but it makes more viable than before, and every class is playable (albeit under a certain niche). Does this destroy the lore or identity of the Kahjiit? No, although it might bend it a little. With proper thought put into it you could use a system like this to make every race have its own unique niche or playstyle with each class. This seems like a fun idea to me, but others could disagree. I submit my idea to the eso community.

This is a great idea (race and class determining racials), but I don't see ZOS implementing something like this. If you look at how they've responded so far, they're looking for the easiest, I would say laziest fix for the imbalance. They have their hands full trying to add new content and stock the Crown Store. The last thing they'll do is redesign the passive system. It takes a lot of time to get anything implemented in the game. An overhaul of the passive system would probably take them at least a year, if not more. Look at all the stuff they announced last year that has yet to come to fruition.

Snowgoons

IWannaBeATiger wrote: »

@Snowgoons what you are suggesting is removing racials so don't call it that. Character traits are closer to what you mean and they could even add negative traits which you could pick to give you more points to spend.

no that's not at all what i mean, and im not retyping exactly what i mean you can see this above.

G0dsend wrote: »

Well my topic was completely derailed.

Racial Passives and Balance (thoughts?)

^ That's the title of this thread, not "What if both race and class decided your racial passives"

Derailed? I think not.

IWannaBeATiger

@Snowgoons It's exactly what you meant. Why can't an argonian train to be good in fire magic because that isn't a racial ability linked to argonians, swimming is. Dunmer have an affinity for fire similar to how Nords have a resistance to cold. Your idea would have an argonian be able to pick fire resistance ice resistance stealth whatever for points. That is no longer a racial ability they are character traits.

Leandor

So race is just a cosmetic exercise since there is no difference in suitability to a certain playstyle?

In my opinion that would be a major blow to the lore and history within the game. While I am not a lore aficionado or an RP player, I do not like that proposal.

The option to have in each faction different races that are distinct but provide a suitable base for each playstyle is much preferable. So my vote would be for rebalancing of the existing concept and not making racial passives be just another class passive.