Block Break. Possible solution to shield problems?

Rakshat

Infinite blocking and high shield bash damage have been major problems since game release but the upcoming changes to blocking system haven't been received positively by most players.

So what other options do we have?

Apparently, other games have already come up with a solution for infinite blocking and that is some sort of feint move to break the block. Of course, in ESO a move like that might bring it's own set of problems but I believe it's still worth taking a look at.

So I'll start with some of my own ideas on how it could work:

• it should be an ability available to all classes, similar to CC break and Dodge Roll. It should also cost stamina, just like the mentioned abilities.
• casting Block Break on a blocking enemy would throw him off balance for a few seconds, leaving him open for an attack
• having your block broken could give you a short immunity to Block Break, similar to how CC Break gives short immunity to CC. This would prevent players from abusing the ability in 1v2+ situations
• maybe using the ability on NON-blocking targets could leave YOU open for an attack instead (think Dark Souls)? Another way to prevent ability abuse

So that's the general idea. Thoughts?

Darkeus

heavy atks should be block breakers

Zyle

They have already discussed on ESO Live that they are aware and are planning on making changes.

"Blocking:

To make block-cast less reliant you will not regenerate stamina while blocking. Yes, it will make tanking trials and stuff more difficult but it’s still doable as tests shows."

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

SanderBuraas

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

They have already discussed on ESO Live that they are aware and are planning on making changes.

"Blocking:

To make block-cast less reliant you will not regenerate stamina while blocking. Yes, it will make tanking trials and stuff more difficult but it’s still doable as tests shows."

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

As he wrote in the opening post, that change is not well liked by players, hence why he suggested his solution.

Rakshat

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

They have already discussed on ESO Live that they are aware and are planning on making changes.

"Blocking:

To make block-cast less reliant you will not regenerate stamina while blocking. Yes, it will make tanking trials and stuff more difficult but it’s still doable as tests shows."

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/190398/full-21th-eso-live-highlights/p1

Yes, I'm aware of the planned changes but I just don't see it as a best solution. Therefore I'm suggesting an alternative.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

heavy attacks to break block would make block almost totally pointless since almost all dps does animation canceling with heavy attacks. Not to mention a major chunk of them do it with mouse or keyboard macros.

A simple 50% reduction in stam regen or raising the cost of blocking players in pvp would fix any pvp issues with blocking without destroying tanking for pve players.

Rakshat

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

heavy attacks to break block would make block almost totally pointless since almost all dps does animation canceling with heavy attacks. Not to mention a major chunk of them do it with mouse or keyboard macros.

A simple 50% reduction in stam regen or raising the cost of blocking players in pvp would fix any pvp issues with blocking without destroying tanking for pve players.

I agree with that. The problem, however, is that zos tends to get extreme with their nerfs. It's like they can't even comprehend the idea of 'small adjustments'. Adding small reduction to stam regen, seeing how it works and then increasing it in next patch if there's any need for that would be a logical thing to do. But noooo, let's remove stam regen completely and see what happens!

NotSo

Just couple the bash mechanic with block breaking. Set em off ballance, then knock 'em down with a heavy.

Of course, I think ZOS's change will be fine. I actually plan on attempting a sorc tank after the update.

danovic

The way to fix it is still the same. Use some reality the way past a shield is to break it. Shields should take increased damage and be destroyed if they block everything. Thrown weapons to stick in shields made them unusable as they became to heavy. The romans made spears to pierce shields then bent so they remained stuck in shield and made useing it impossible. Not regenerating stamina is totally wrong making it take increasing amounts of stamina the more it blocks to simulate a damaged shield would be more realistic. This would also create a need to actually carry armor repair kits to fix shields in the field.

Xjcon

Darkeus wrote: »

heavy atks should be block breakers

The whole point of block is to mitigate those heavy attacks. Why would it make sense to have that the block breaker?

Rakshat

danovic wrote: »

The way to fix it is still the same. Use some reality the way past a shield is to break it. Shields should take increased damage and be destroyed if they block everything. Thrown weapons to stick in shields made them unusable as they became to heavy. The romans made spears to pierce shields then bent so they remained stuck in shield and made useing it impossible. Not regenerating stamina is totally wrong making it take increasing amounts of stamina the more it blocks to simulate a damaged shield would be more realistic. This would also create a need to actually carry armor repair kits to fix shields in the field.

This is kinda my point. Instead of gimping the shield user, we should be given some kind of tools to break it. On one hand, your block already breaks when you run out of stamina, but then you have no stamina to do anything else, even use abilities (if you're a stamina user). It's a flawed system IMO. Maybe instead of a separate ability to break the shield, we need a separate fatigue bar for the shield that would run out after a few hits, be it physical or magical, and fill back up independently from your stamina pool.

Zachy_B

Heavy attacks should be block break. Or if you've ever played DC universe, holding your throw weapon ability is the block break. Works really well in DCUO

Lynx7386

I've been suggesting block breaking since PC launch.

Personally, I think it should be added to all charge-type abilities and other similar abilities for classes. You're not going to block a guy that's running at you full speed with the intent of slamming you over. Right now you knock the charger on his arse by blocking, which makes no sense. For balance sake, 'pull' and some 'push' abilities could also break blocking.

The following abilities would knock down/block break when used against blocking opponents:

1h/shield: Shield Charge
Two handed: critical charge
Bow: Scatter Shot
Nightblade: Teleport Strike
Sorceror: Bolt Escape
Templar: Focused Charge
Dragon Knight: Fiery Grip
Fighter's Guild: Silver Leash (only on vampires/werewolves)


Dual wield misses out a bit, as do staffs, but that's where the class abilities can come into play.

Tolmos

Block break should be the "Kick" ability. Then everyone gets it. It's like this innate "Kick the **** out of the person in front of you" skill that, if they are blocking, it staggers them and ruins their block.

Make it a "player interaction" ability with a short wind up and a chance to fail. That will give blockers a chance to do something about what's coming their way.

Personofsecrets

Rakshat wrote: »

Infinite blocking and high shield bash damage have been major problems since game release but the upcoming changes to blocking system haven't been received positively by most players.

>Infinite blocking
>Major problem

incorrect

Personofsecrets

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

heavy attacks to break block would make block almost totally pointless since almost all dps does animation canceling with heavy attacks. Not to mention a major chunk of them do it with mouse or keyboard macros.

A simple 50% reduction in stam regen or raising the cost of blocking players in pvp would fix any pvp issues with blocking without destroying tanking for pve players.

pvp 'issues' are not separable from pve.

leepalmer95

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

heavy attacks to break block would make block almost totally pointless since almost all dps does animation canceling with heavy attacks. Not to mention a major chunk of them do it with mouse or keyboard macros.

A simple 50% reduction in stam regen or raising the cost of blocking players in pvp would fix any pvp issues with blocking without destroying tanking for pve players.

pvp 'issues' are not separable from pve.

They should be though, instead of a game changing nerf why not just add to that nice pvp buff everyone gets '75% stamina regen reduction while blocking' and while were there why not a '75% magicka regen reduction while casting a spell/shielded' , as it seems this patch is just to annoy stamina builds.

Lynx7386

Zachy_B wrote: »

Heavy attacks should be block break. Or if you've ever played DC universe, holding your throw weapon ability is the block break. Works really well in DCUO

No, blocking is designed as the counter to heavy attacks in the same way that bashing is designed as the counter to spellcasts.

Psychobunni

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

heavy attacks to break block would make block almost totally pointless since almost all dps does animation canceling with heavy attacks. Not to mention a major chunk of them do it with mouse or keyboard macros.

A simple 50% reduction in stam regen or raising the cost of blocking players in pvp would fix any pvp issues with blocking without destroying tanking for pve players.

pvp 'issues' are not separable from pve.

I'm tired and can't remember exactly because it wasnt a change directly hurting my toons, but didn't 1.6? have a shield skill change or something that specifically read "while in Cyrodiil" but didn't have that effect in PVE??

Issues are absolutely separable, it just requires more work. Sooner they embrace it, sooner they stop running players away from their game instead of to it.