Major Brutality: Should it be given to Twin Slashes instead of Hidden Blade?

GreenSoup2HoT

In my opinion, i think this was the worst skill they could of put major brutality on.

As someone who run's DW/Bow. Why would i waste a slot for Hidden Blade when i have a whole other bar for long range. If you run double dw it work's. If you run Dw/2H you still use rally. If someone can tell me some build possibility's with this new change that would be great.

The only reason i see Zos putting Major Brutality on Hidden Blade is because it's the "5th skill" in the DW tree. Zos wanted something to relate to the "5th skill" Rally from the 2H skill line.

A better choice in my opinion would to have put Major Brutality on Twin Slash's.

Why?

Twin Slash's has a morph called Blood Craze which provide's a HoT. This skill provide's a great HoT just like Rally but will a lower duration. If Major Brutality was added to Twin Slash's it would be a great opener for nightblade's. Ambush, Blood Craze, Dark Cloak then Surprise Att. The synergy their would be unreal. Placing a DoT + HoT with Major Brutality at the start of a fight sound's amazing. If you don't want the HoT you could reduce enemy movement speed with Rending Slashes, the same debuff Hidden Blade use's. It just seem's so much better.

What do you think?

dsalter

Yes- Twin Slash's

in all honesty they need to buff twin slashes direct damage as well

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

dsalter wrote: »

in all honesty they need to buff twin slashes direct damage as well

I disagree with your point. I think twin slashes should be used just to proc the DoT/HoT or Speed debuff. The DoT does a pretty big chunk of damage for such a low cost. It's not necessary.

It's true the initial strike damage is quite low, i wouldn't argue to much if they did increase it. Just i would strongly prefer Zos give Major Brutality to Twin Slashes then any increase to the initial strike damage, if any change were to occur.

DDuke

No- Stay's with Hidden Blade

No, Twin Slashes is good by itself since the Rending morph is used in high end PvE by pretty much all stamina builds. That, and it's nigh useless in PvP and would still be after this change (when you're in melee range, you want to deal burst dmg not apply some DoTs that get purged in 0,1 seconds or outhealed).

Flying Blade on the other hand isn't used in PvE at all, but can be extremely valuable in PvP and could reach Rally level of usefulness with this change.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Other- A different skill perhaps?

I'd prefer if Major Brutality would be swapped out for a usefull buff. I'll still have to use momentum as a self heal in pvp and I'll still use weapon power potions in pve, so no matter which skill gets major brutality, it's worthless.
Minor brutality, empower or major berserk would be much better if you want to buff dual wield.

DDuke

No- Stay's with Hidden Blade

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I'd prefer if Major Brutality would be swapped out for a usefull buff. I'll still have to use momentum as a self heal in pvp and I'll still use weapon power potions in pve, so no matter which skill gets major brutality, it's worthless.
Minor brutality, empower or major berserk would be much better if you want to buff dual wield.

I think the whole point is to give people who don't want to use 2H access to the +20% weapon dmg buff Momentum gives (without forcing them to use potions 24/7).

Adding something like Major Berserking would just make it a no-brainer for everyone to go DW/2H, and leave little room for other options (DW/DW, DW/Bow).

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

DDuke wrote: »

No, Twin Slashes is good by itself since the Rending morph is used in high end PvE by pretty much all stamina builds. That, and it's nigh useless in PvP and would still be after this change (when you're in melee range, you want to deal burst dmg not apply some DoTs that get purged in 0,1 seconds or outhealed).

Flying Blade on the other hand isn't used in PvE at all, but can be extremely valuable in PvP and could reach Rally level of usefulness with this change.

I would think Blood Craze get's utilized more in PvE because you can proc it on multiple enemy's to grant some great healing. On the other hand i don't really see how rending slashes help's much in pve, if your going to kite something it would be better to just use Hidden Blade.

Flying Blade is used a ton in Solo PvE. I soloed Boss's with just that, kiting them in circle's.

Flying Blade is a waste of a slot to begin with for PvP. Now i am encouraged once Zos give's flying blade Major Brutality to waste a slot on it. I would much rather Twin Slashes on my Bar for PvP then Hidden Blade.

Hidden Blade doesn't even compare to Rally even with Major Brutality. Which is why i've argued to give Twin Slashes it instead. Does Hidden Blade have a HoT or Burst Heal, no. At least Twin Slashes can obtain a HoT to compare to Rally's heal's.

Rally: HoT + Burst Heal if casted within duration + Major Brutality

Hidden blade: 3k Damage + Speed Debuff + (Proposed implementation of Major Brutality)
Blood Craze: 1k damage (initial) + DoT + HoT + (Proposed implantation of Major Brutality)

Which one of these is more comparable to rally?

-With hidden blade, your loosing a HoT and Burst Heal for a speed debuff and a little bit of damage.

-With Blood craze, your loosing a burst heal for a DoT + initial damage. A Fair trade in my opinion.

Hidden Blade's really only potential in Pvp is the speed debuff. Which isn't that necessary anyway's. Like you said, can easily be purged. In the end, if your going to burst dps from range, you don't use Hidden Blade.
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Also not sure if you have heard or not. Healing and Shield's in Cyrodil are being reduced by 50% (not sure what the base value is currently) as well as damage reduction by 50%. Which mean's DoT effect's will have greater value in a fight.

You say in melee range you want a lot of burst damage. With these new change's the time to kill has increased significantly. So a fight will last longer then usual were DoT effect's become viable.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

DDuke wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I'd prefer if Major Brutality would be swapped out for a usefull buff. I'll still have to use momentum as a self heal in pvp and I'll still use weapon power potions in pve, so no matter which skill gets major brutality, it's worthless.
Minor brutality, empower or major berserk would be much better if you want to buff dual wield.

I think the whole point is to give people who don't want to use 2H access to the +20% weapon dmg buff Momentum gives (without forcing them to use potions 24/7).

Adding something like Major Berserking would just make it a no-brainer for everyone to go DW/2H, and leave little room for other options (DW/DW, DW/Bow).

Agree here. You are just giving 2 hand user's more strength once you give other weapon skill line's different buff's. My concern is the fact there is no burst heal's for DW user's , unless they use Rally on a separate Bar they have nothing. Vigor is coming to level 5 assault which is a plus, can't wait for that.

However, if they give Hidden Blade this Buff, it doesn't help DW user's problem's. The problem we all have been having and asking for is for more sustain. Which is why i'd like Twin Slashes to receive Major Brutality to give DW user's a HoT which is viable to use.

With this change, DW/Bow user's will get their little bit of sustain.

No more 2H bandwagon.

DDuke

No- Stay's with Hidden Blade

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

No, Twin Slashes is good by itself since the Rending morph is used in high end PvE by pretty much all stamina builds. That, and it's nigh useless in PvP and would still be after this change (when you're in melee range, you want to deal burst dmg not apply some DoTs that get purged in 0,1 seconds or outhealed).

Flying Blade on the other hand isn't used in PvE at all, but can be extremely valuable in PvP and could reach Rally level of usefulness with this change.

I would think Blood Craze get's utilized more in PvE because you can proc it on multiple enemy's to grant some great healing. On the other hand i don't really see how rending slashes help's much in pve, if your going to kite something it would be better to just use Hidden Blade.

I'm more thinking about Trials/VDSA. You don't really want to morph the skill into Blood Craze as a DPS, since you've got healers healing you. Rending Slashes on the other hand deals more dmg per cast than your Surprise Attack (which is your "spam skill" in DPS rotations as NB).

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Flying Blade is a waste of a slot to begin with for PvP. Now i am encouraged once Zos give's flying blade Major Brutality to waste a slot on it. I would much rather Twin Slashes on my Bar for PvP then Hidden Blade.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Pause right there.

Flying Blade is the best ranged skill you can have as a stamina build, it stuns from sneak & procs camo hunter, which alone is often a kill on vampires. Block canceled, you can have two flying blades hit within one second dealing 15-25k damage with correct gear.

Not only that, but they are excellent vs sorcerers sitting in their minefield, excellent for kiting other stamina builds & DKs thanks to the 70% snare, excellent for catching teleporting sorcs with speed boost (throw knife - sprint - throw knife - sprint) and in general, they just deal a crap ton of damage.

You should really give it another shot before calling it a waste of a slot

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Hidden Blade doesn't even compare to Rally even with Major Brutality. Which is why i've argued to give Twin Slashes it instead. Does Hidden Blade have a HoT or Burst Heal, no. At least Twin Slashes can obtain a HoT to compare to Rally's heal's.

Not everything needs to have a heal, and Rally's heal is mostly used for the instant cast heal, not the HoT effect (which is weak).
Besides, you can get Vigor at rank 5 next patch for heals.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Rally: HoT + Burst Heal if casted within duration + Major Brutality

Hidden blade: 3k Damage + Speed Debuff + (Proposed implementation of Major Brutality)
Blood Craze: 1k damage (initial) + DoT + HoT + (Proposed implantation of Major Brutality)

Which one of these is more comparable to rally?

-With hidden blade, your loosing a HoT and Burst Heal for a speed debuff and a little bit of damage.

-With Blood craze, your loosing a burst heal for a DoT + initial damage. A Fair trade in my opinion.

Heal values could help greatly here to draw a comparison, but let's use mine:

Rally (1k/2 seconds=500HPS, 800HPS~ crits, burst heal dependent on duration left)
Vigor: (2.3k/second=2300HPS, 3100HPS~ crits), 13k total heal over 5 seconds

Hidden Blade (Flying Blade): 7-8k Damage, 11-13k crits
Rending Slashes: 2,2k Damage, 8,5k over 9 seconds

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Hidden Blade's really only potential in Pvp is the speed debuff. Which isn't that necessary anyway's. Like you said, can easily be purged. In the end, if your going to burst dps from range, you don't use Hidden Blade.

Except it's only purged by Purge, not by Dark Cloak (used by pretty much every Nightblade).
The ease of purging DoTs is significantly greater than purging movement impairing effects.

Also, for ranged burst Flying Blade is actually significantly better than Snipe for instance.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Also not sure if you have heard or not. Healing and Shield's in Cyrodil are being reduced by 50% (not sure what the base value is currently) as well as damage reduction by 50%. Which mean's DoT effect's will have greater value in a fight.

You say in melee range you want a lot of burst damage. With these new change's the time to kill has increased significantly. So a fight will last longer then usual were DoT effect's become viable.

Yes, healing & shields are being reduced, but not by 50%. They're being reduced to 50% (they are currently reduced by 15% in Cyrodiil). Damage is the same thing, it is reduced to -50% (from the current -20%).

That said, DoTs will still be a waste of stamina if your opponent has a purge ability (or happens to be a Nightblade), and mostly a waste of a skill slot outside PvE.

acw37162

In my opinion if your trying to balance the ability off of Rally, which was mentioned in the cast then whirlwind would be your best choice.

As DW has no straight heal buff ability that you can activate at any time at least with whirlwind you can keep up major brutality without having a target.

The edge still goes to 2 handed with the ability to throw and keep buffs up without a target.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

I'm more thinking about Trials/VDSA. You don't really want to morph the skill into Blood Craze as a DPS, since you've got healers healing you. Rending Slashes on the other hand deals more dmg per cast than your Surprise Attack (which is your "spam skill" in DPS rotations as NB).

I guess that make's sense. I dig it. XD

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Flying Blade is a waste of a slot to begin with for PvP. Now i am encouraged once Zos give's flying blade Major Brutality to waste a slot on it. I would much rather Twin Slashes on my Bar for PvP then Hidden Blade.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Pause right there.

Flying Blade is the best ranged skill you can have as a stamina build, it stuns from sneak & procs camo hunter, which alone is often a kill on vampires. Block canceled, you can have two flying blades hit within one second dealing 15-25k damage with correct gear.

Not only that, but they are excellent vs sorcerers sitting in their minefield, excellent for kiting other stamina builds & DKs thanks to the 70% snare, excellent for catching teleporting sorcs with speed boost (throw knife - sprint - throw knife - sprint) and in general, they just deal a crap ton of damage.

You should really give it another shot before calling it a waste of a slot

It doesn't say Flying Blade stun's on the skill description for console anyway's. Good to know. Defiantly change's it's viability. I just don't think Flying Blade is worth a spot for me because i use a bow secondary. If you were dw/dw dw/2h etc, it would be good.

I Didn't mean to throw it under the bus like it was useless for everybody.

Don't worry i've used Flying Blade when i was DW/DW. For me Lethal Arrow get's the job done just as well but from further away.

Not everything needs to have a heal, and Rally's heal is mostly used for the instant cast heal, not the HoT effect (which is weak).
Besides, you can get Vigor at rank 5 next patch for heals.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Rally: HoT + Burst Heal if casted within duration + Major Brutality

Hidden blade: 3k Damage + Speed Debuff + (Proposed implementation of Major Brutality)
Blood Craze: 1k damage (initial) + DoT + HoT + (Proposed implantation of Major Brutality)

Which one of these is more comparable to rally?

-With hidden blade, your loosing a HoT and Burst Heal for a speed debuff and a little bit of damage.

-With Blood craze, your loosing a burst heal for a DoT + initial damage. A Fair trade in my opinion.

Heal values could help greatly here to draw a comparison, but let's use mine:

Rally (1k/2 seconds=500HPS, 800HPS~ crits, burst heal dependent on duration left)
Vigor: (2.3k/second=2300HPS, 3100HPS~ crits), 13k total heal over 5 seconds

Hidden Blade (Flying Blade): 7-8k Damage, 11-13k crits
Rending Slashes: 2,2k Damage, 8,5k over 9 seconds

Your know your stuff , i dig when someone give's me all this information. However, i don't think i would use flying blade over snipe because of the range. As a bow user, i would benefit more off twin slashes then hidden blade.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Hidden Blade's really only potential in Pvp is the speed debuff. Which isn't that necessary anyway's. Like you said, can easily be purged. In the end, if your going to burst dps from range, you don't use Hidden Blade.

Except it's only purged by Purge, not by Dark Cloak (used by pretty much every Nightblade).
The ease of purging DoTs is significantly greater than purging movement impairing effects.

Also, for ranged burst Flying Blade is actually significantly better than Snipe for instance.

Do you think these new damage change's will effect burst potential/viability?

I also doubt people will use the mana to purge a Blood Craze DoT. Dark Cloak is a different story but that's where i kill Nb's from range with my Bow. Blood Craze would really only be used on player's who won't purge it, situational really.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Also not sure if you have heard or not. Healing and Shield's in Cyrodil are being reduced by 50% (not sure what the base value is currently) as well as damage reduction by 50%. Which mean's DoT effect's will have greater value in a fight.

You say in melee range you want a lot of burst damage. With these new change's the time to kill has increased significantly. So a fight will last longer then usual were DoT effect's become viable.

Yes, healing & shields are being reduced, but not by 50%. They're being reduced to 50% (they are currently reduced by 15% in Cyrodiil). Damage is the same thing, it is reduced to -50% (from the current -20%).

That said, DoTs will still be a waste of stamina if your opponent has a purge ability (or happens to be a Nightblade), and mostly a waste of a skill slot outside PvE.

Yeah, i knew it wasn't a flat 50%.

Using Blood Craze is never a waste of stamina though. It's so cheap to cast, if it's purged i can always cast it again no problem.
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Your information was great. Defiantly changed my perspective of Hidden Blade's Usefulness.

I still want Twin Slashes to get Major Brutality tho

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

acw37162 wrote: »

In my opinion if your trying to balance the ability off of Rally, which was mentioned in the cast then whirlwind would be your best choice.

As DW has no straight heal buff ability that you can activate at any time at least with whirlwind you can keep up major brutality without having a target.

The edge still goes to 2 handed with the ability to throw and keep buffs up without a target.

That's were vigor come's in my friend. Vigor would be used for your bigger heal. This is primarily why they are reducing vigor to level 5 in the assault tree. Since DW/stamina Nb's player's had no form of heal's unless they used a resto staff/rally.

With Vigor you can combo Blood Craze for your HoT plus Major Brutality. Which would perform similar to Rally.

acw37162

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

acw37162 wrote: »

In my opinion if your trying to balance the ability off of Rally, which was mentioned in the cast then whirlwind would be your best choice.

As DW has no straight heal buff ability that you can activate at any time at least with whirlwind you can keep up major brutality without having a target.

The edge still goes to 2 handed with the ability to throw and keep buffs up without a target.

That's were vigor come's in my friend. Vigor would be used for your bigger heal. This is primarily why they are reducing vigor to level 5 in the assault tree. Since DW/stamina Nb's player's had no form of heal's unless they used a resto staff/rally.

With Vigor you can combo Blood Craze for your HoT plus Major Brutality. Which would perform similar to Rally.

True it helps.

Rally and 2H is still superior by a large margin. You can keep it up 24/7 and it heals. You have to open with hidden blade or twin slashes to start major brutality with this change where, which requires a target and an opening move, 2H has no such restrictions.

Wherever you put brutality on DW tree 2H still wins, Rally (1 spot on your bar gets you a heal and buff 24/7 target or no)
DW gets vigor earlier and a skill some may or may not ever use, hidden blade (2 spots on your bar)

Most DW users have leveled up 1 of the 2 versions of whirlwind, just bring able to activate the buff without a target makes this the most obvious choice and not one 2H players would stack back bar for added benefit.

Lynx7386

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I'd prefer if Major Brutality would be swapped out for a usefull buff. I'll still have to use momentum as a self heal in pvp and I'll still use weapon power potions in pve, so no matter which skill gets major brutality, it's worthless.
Minor brutality, empower or major berserk would be much better if you want to buff dual wield.

Use Vigor for your heal, and not everyone wants to go popping potions constantly.

Lynx7386

What they should do is add major brutality to the blade cloak ability. Right now all it offers is 20% reduced aoe damage taken and some minor intermittent aoe damage to melee enemies. You wont ever use it outside of heavy aoe situations, but adding major brutality there would make it a buff to rival momentum.

lathbury

Yes- Twin Slash's

guess my stam blade rotation would have to be something like hidden blade from stealth.. ambush.. cloak..surprise attack..rending slashes.. cloak ...surprise attack or killers blade..
if target is very tanky could throw in mass hysteria to get some distance and repeat

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

Lynx7386 wrote: »

What they should do is add major brutality to the blade cloak ability. Right now all it offers is 20% reduced aoe damage taken and some minor intermittent aoe damage to melee enemies. You wont ever use it outside of heavy aoe situations, but adding major brutality there would make it a buff to rival momentum.

This is the same argument acw37162 is talking about. Even if you could activate blade cloak for your Major Brutality. You have to use two ability's to match the effect of one.

Something need's to be done so DW can match rally.

Even though Rally can be activated before a fight. Giving Twin Slashes Major Brutality is the only way i can see this working out. Using Ambush then immediately using Twin Slashes to gain the "MB" would work. Your just loosing out on the extra damage from the first ambush but i'd take that over a slot for Blade Cloak any day.

Rally should loose Major Brutality and put it somewhere else. There's to much there for one single buff. Give critical charge "MB" so 2h user's use critical charge over ambush. Bam fixed. Even playing field's once DW get's "MB" on Twin Slashes.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

lathbury wrote: »

guess my stam blade rotation would have to be something like hidden blade from stealth.. ambush.. cloak..surprise attack..rending slashes.. cloak ...surprise attack or killers blade..
if target is very tanky could throw in mass hysteria to get some distance and repeat

if my idea went through to Zos your rotation would look like this:

Ambush>Twin Slashes>Soul Harvest>Cloak>Surprise Att x "X"> Killer Blade

I'd rather open up with Lethal Arrow / Relentless Focus + Camo Hunter Combo compared to Flying Blade. If you stun out of stealth with Hidden Blade, your surprise attack wont stun since the enemy will be immune. Also you can start your combo before Lethal Arrow even hit's.

lathbury

Yes- Twin Slash's

lethal arrow wont give you the buff. Also nothing is stopping you using relentless focus and camo hunter as buffs to that rotation. As other ppl have mentioned lethal arrows only advantage over flying blade is the range. which for my rotation is a non issue as I have to be in ambush range. The point is surprise attack is gonna land with at least major brutality and ambushes buff applied if using shadowy disguise it will also crit. The stuns are fairly redundant more to keep a constant drain on there resource and get them using stamina so you can hit them with fear. They will also be snared from the dagger enabling you to disengage or reposition while cloaked.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

Valid point good sir ^

Forestd16b14_ESO

Yes- Twin Slash's

I say yes cause twin slash is on the low end of the totem pole.

lathbury

Yes- Twin Slash's

lathbury wrote: »

lethal arrow wont give you the buff. Also nothing is stopping you using relentless focus and camo hunter as buffs to that rotation. As other ppl have mentioned lethal arrows only advantage over flying blade is the range. which for my rotation is a non issue as I have to be in ambush range. The point is surprise attack is gonna land with at least major brutality and ambushes buff applied if using shadowy disguise it will also crit. The stuns are fairly redundant more to keep a constant drain on there resource and get them using stamina so you can hit them with fear. They will also be snared from the dagger enabling you to disengage or reposition while cloaked.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Valid point good sir ^

maybe you can help me solve a debate i have with myself about stamina nb in pvp. dawn breaker or soulharvest on main bar

lathbury

Yes- Twin Slash's

its all redundant btw as the real question in the new meta is what we do about all the dk's spamming talons that no one can roll or be out of.
you heard it here first lol

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

maybe you can help me solve a debate i have with myself about stamina nb in pvp. dawn breaker or soul harvest on main bar

If my idea went through and the change's were made, my build would look like this.

Dw:
-Dark Cloak,
-Blood Craze
-Vigor
-Surprise Attack
-Ambush
-Soul Harvest or Soul Tether (really depend's how the reduced damage coming in next patch turn's out.)

Bow:
-Relentless Focus (getting buffed to proc specter bow with 4 light attack's)
-Camouflage Hunter
-Double Take
-Piercing Mark
-Lethal Arrow
-Flawless Dawnbreaker

You see, with my build. If Hidden Blade proc's "MB" it pretty much make's my bow bar worthless apart from having more range.

It's situational to your play style, if you use your melee bar a ton. Flawless Dawnbreaker may be better for the 8% wep damage increase. However you can use Soul Harvest more often during a long engagement if you weave in light attack's. Which you should be doing to proc relentless force anyway.

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

lathbury wrote: »

its all redundant btw as the real question in the new meta is what we do about all the dk's spamming talons that no one can roll or be out of.
you heard it here first lol

you can ambush out of them xD

lathbury

Yes- Twin Slash's

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

its all redundant btw as the real question in the new meta is what we do about all the dk's spamming talons that no one can roll or be out of.
you heard it here first lol

you can ambush out of them xD

well thats nb sorted

lathbury

Yes- Twin Slash's

To each their own bow playstyle in this game I have found underwhelming. Think I will stick to my plan and try and get flying blade and ambush to hit at the same time. If they are noobs or low on stam I'll hit them with surprise attack while they are still stunned getting more bonus damage from the passive .

lathbury

Yes- Twin Slash's

I voted for the change to be on slashes in case you are wondering because of PVE it will keep the buff on while you are refreshing your dot which flying blade would not. It does offer bow builds a way of keeping this buff though as they will no longer have to spam pots or have 2h as their second weapon and give them acces to steel tornado for aoe on the same off bar.
so its good for dw dw pvp
bad for dw dw pve
but id say the opposite for bow dw
and n/a for 2h builds as they have rally

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

It would be nice for PvE and PvP.

You shouldn't receive a 2H buff if you switch to your Bow Bar anyway. Which should be fixed.

Same goes for this DW buff.

Master_Kas

@DDuke what is your Max dmg with flying blade from sneak buffed?

My highest snipe is 21 566 or 21 565 on a v14 . Just want to compare

GreenSoup2HoT

Yes- Twin Slash's

When you vote, comment your reasoning please