Starting to feel extremely frustrated...

GrieverXVII

I've just reached level 50 as a NB using a Bow and it feels like it's been nothing but an uphill struggle the entire game. My friend started at the same time as me, chose a DK/2H and his results are absolute opposite, he absolutely steamrolls through everything even in the VR's. His tanking, recovery, and damage is enough that he can pretty much solo group dungeons. I can barely stay alive against 4-5 enemies in a group dungeon. it's starting to make me feel extremely turned off of the fact that every dungeon we attempt ends in the same situation, I die in a couple minutes while he solo's the enemies and the boss by himself.

My concern is why does it feel like this game is constantly trying to make me play a different build i don't want too? why won't it let me play the game the way i want and still be viable? why do i have to conform to a meta to actually survive for more than 1 minute?

at this point i feel like the game clearly favors certain builds and really pushes you to conform near end game, it's the most frustrating and degrading feeling when every dungeon we walk into ends in me dying within minutes while he's able to solo a GROUP dungeon. extremely disheartening as I really do enjoy this game, but I also heavily refuse the need to conform to compete...is there no other way???

NotSo

Need more information on your build, are you built for magicka or stamina? Light, medium, or heavy armor? Are you using defensive abilities, heals, crowd control?

A strict bow user is hard to play, especially if you can't keep enemies off you. I'd try to have a couple "oh sh**" spells, such as fear or an ultimate.

You can ask your friend to start using a sword/shield to taunt enemies off you and you can support him in return by nuking down hard hitters.

GrieverXVII

I've respec'd maybe 3 times now during the course of progressing through the game as needed. my current is

full medium set
poison injection, killer's blade, swallow soul, lethal arrow, scorched earth, ult. soul harvest

I generally had to do this to sacrifice high dps for survivability since i can barely seem to stay alive. I start battles by poison injecting all enemies with a few lethal arrows as well, throw a scorched earth at my feet for when they rush me, and swallow soul when i need the hp top off, when they are low on health i finish with killer's blade. This build seems to keep me alive at the sacrifice of high DPS, but even in group dungeons i find myself not even being able to survive a mob of 3-5.

Frustrating thing is...I feel like i'm not bad at games, I've poured thousand+ hours into games like Dark Souls so skill is something I can learn and adapt such as rolling or blocking. what's frustrating me is the enemies seem to always want to aggro me even though i'm not doing anything, enemies attacks seem to hit me from 10 feet away even though i clearly dodge roll or am far enough away...i can't even really explain much of it since all situations are slightly different, but there's one common thing...my build can't sustain itself and it's upsetting because I really want to play a bow and can't seem to find a successful build equal to my friends.

Tholian1

I can understand the frustration, but my experience with the NB is it takes some time to figure out how to use effectively (and I'm still learning). I always feel underpowered compared to others and burn through potions sometimes.

Try to bring along a healer when you do group dungeons. I have had decent success with just myself and a healer.

GrieverXVII

Tholian1 wrote: »

I can understand the frustration, but my experience with the NB is it takes some time to figure out how to use effectively (and I'm still learning). I always feel underpowered compared to others and burn through potions sometimes.

Try to bring along a healer when you do group dungeons. I have had decent success with just myself and a healer.

thanks for the input, I do have a friend who can heal me like that...but there's something that annoys me with that idea as well. I really dislike the idea of needing a crutch to actually play to survive when my buddy can solo everything on his own without any sort of crutch or liability.

I've read a lot of similar feeling articles and threads on NB class and using certain weaponry, it seems pretty unfair and I would hope the devs can look into balancing certain weapons and builds to be viable so people can actually play many different ways instead of conforming or being shunned for not following "one build for all" meta's, I just keep getting destroyed for trying to make a "different" build work...it's extremely throwing me off the game at the moment..

NotSo

Everything on your first bar , I think, is fine. The only thing worth mentioning there is that swallow soul might not be healing you for as much as it would a magicka build. But that's ok, we can add to it if you're willing to put in some extra work.

Still don't know if you're stamina or magicka build /:

I want you to choose either a restoration staff (magicka based) or a two handed weapon (stamina based) and work on leveling up one of those skill lines. Restoration staff's 2nd ability is a heal over time that can really help you last longer in a drawn out fight. Likewise the two handed weapon's 5th skill will do the same thing (with a morph that will burst heal at the end of the heal over time effect). Though you will have to put in some serious work for the two handed weapon skill, you could just spam the 1st skill (cleave, morphed into brawler) to allow you to eat more damage without needing heals.

Those abilities would simply be tapped once then weapon swapped back to bow.

The brawler ability would be the most beneficial, but I'm tryin to keep you in bow mode. What do you think?

Actual skill descriptions can be found here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/151658/all-1-6-3-skills-abilities-except-vampire#latest
Or you can search online but this might be the most accurate.

GrieverXVII

hey, thanks for the advices.

I have been mainly focusing on a stamina build. I've tried restoration staff in my second hand but get nuked before i could even heal most times. i've read a lot of good things about bow/2H build, it was honestly my next option...but I just see myself using the 2H more than the bow if i do that, i already see how beneficial it is for my buddy and i really just wanted to make something work with the bow as i really like being different and not following the "what everybody has" thing ya know? but even if i tried...there's no way i'd be on the same par...i mean i've made the bow work all the way up to level 50...but i think im starting to feel too much pressure now and it's just not making things fun.

at this point, i could dfeinitely do a bow/1h+shield or bow/2h. mind helping me out with a suggested build structure?

edit:
also, i guess maybe it's my own stubbornness that's got me feeling like this but the entire time i've played this game i've done my best to not look up "best builds" or what other people have because I take a huge amount of pride in creating something that works for me and ends up being maybe one of the best ways to utilize a weapon...but unfortunately I feel like i've failed this time and now i'm at a desperate point because i just get wrecked every which way now while my buddy is just cruising through things...so demoralizing for me, and it makes me even more demoralized having to seek advice instead of being able to figure it out myself...but if it's to keep me playing this game..maybe it's for the best.

If i had things my way, i would wear a full breton medium armor set, have only a Bow equipped and play the rest of the game happy as is, but from the looks of it, the game just won't allow me to be viable like this...I have too conform to the better builds and it's got me flustered. maybe i'm expecting too much because in a game like Dark Souls, you can play with whatever and however you want and still make it work because the game was all about true skill...but obviously this isn't Dark Souls...so, maybe I am expecting too much.

NotSo

Well if it's 3-5 mobs you wanna face at once, I'd suggest two handed. Just for that brawler morph. But in the case you want to take on bosses solo, you're gonna want the 1h/shield.

Generally, using only a bow is only good if you can keep attackers at bay or if you have support. A lot of NB bow users will use the arrow spray skill and cripple to kite around melee attackers. Venom arrow is especially good when dealing with casters.

Edit: I played the hell out of Bloodborne. Game got me feeling super picky about ESO combat.

Tholian1

I like to open with the Bombard morph for the bow against multiple targets and then I go dual wield with Rapid Strikes. I pour a lot of points into health and stamina and use infused armor with enchantments. Seems to work ok except for soloing a group boss.

Not sure what else to do to extend my survivability beyond that and just learning how to evade properly. I'll take suggestions too.

hedna123b14_ESO

Havent played a nightblade yet, but i have all three other toons and I can tell you from experience, that although you will find different and unique builds that are viable, unless you choose one of the very few top ways to play - you will not be able to do competitive DPS. Unfortunately with as much flexibility as ESO offers just like EVERY other MMO there are better builds and worse builds...while leveling though you should be fine using w/e.

NotSo

I am by no means a pro Nightblade bow user. I stick to my sorcerer and play with anything that lets me stack health steal effects (aka health return on weapon hit). But during my time leveling up the bow skill line, I definitely could not be a 100% bow user for most of my fights. Either prepping for a fight on my buff bar, or spamming brawler to get out of a tight situation.

Sometimes it takes a huge amount of effort to get a certain build just right. I've reset my skills about 30 times (not exaggerating) jumping between magicka and stamina builds. I've got a pretty solid stamina build, but my magicka build has got miles to go.

Edit: I currently run a 2h and resto staff setup. Using Brawler and Rally (momentum morph) off of 2h. Using mutagen (heal over time) and quick siphon (heal on attack) off the restostaff. So you can already see 3 heals on me, now we stack it sky high with sorcerer's crit surge (heal on crit attack), and mages guild's degeneration (heal on attack). Then, thundering presence, lightning flood, and brawler all grant back huge amounts of self heals. My build gets weird.

DisgracefulMind

If you want to stick with a stamina NB bow user, I recommend your offbar being two-handed so that you are able to cast rally for healing. The problem with swallow soul is that, as a stam user, you can't spam it or benefit from it as much as a magicka build can. This I would recommend for solo play.

In group play, a healer should be keeping you up at all times, and, if it's a templar healer, they can cast repentance on you to maintain your stamina. If this is the case, I highly recommend going bow/dual wield. Steel tornado is an excellent skill for any stamina user. You have access to ambush as well as a stamina user, and starting with that, and using an ultimate like death stroke immediately after grants you a huge damage bonus. Plus, there are nightblade passives that sync extremely well for stamina users (:

My experience is that the faster things die, the longer you will stay alive.

NadiusMaximus

It used to be harder.
#oldcorps

GrieverXVII

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the great advice. I know i came here and opened up with mostly complaints and stuff and i was honestly expecting gamefaq style retorics, but I actually got some good responses and i think im going to give the 2h/bow a shot and see how it goes.

daemonios

GrieverXVII wrote: »

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the great advice. I know i came here and opened up with mostly complaints and stuff and i was honestly expecting gamefaq style retorics, but I actually got some good responses and i think im going to give the 2h/bow a shot and see how it goes.

By your account you're going full dps. If that's the case, your best survival strategy is to do just that - very high dps, very fast. You need to kill THEM before they kill YOU.

Bow+2H are not your only options, by the way. Dual wield is pretty good too - open with bow while at range, especially trying to one- or two-shot the heaviest hitters by engaging from stealth, then if they swarm to you, change to dual wielding and let them have it with steel tornado.

asteldian

Your issue is feeling that play as you want translates to playing just as well as anyone else.
You can go bow as main weapon, but soloing will be far harder - it is very much a support type weapon, effective at picking off single targets or being used in a group. But alone it will struggle more than other weapons.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to make your own builds, but there is also nothing wrong with getting inspiration from other builds to then customise to fit your own style.
There is weapon swap for a reason, by all means use your bow, pick off a couple targets before they react, but then have 2h or DW on your other bar so that when the remaining mobs get close you are properly equipped to smash them down.
Unlike other ranged weapons, the bow is a weak weapon solo once mobs get close - this is because you are stamina based so cannot afford to be blocking and using skills, unlike staves where you can keep block up and spam attacks.

Leandor

Tbh, 2H is the most ridiculous weapon line in this game. It is the only completely self sufficient line, providing survivability, buffs, and highest damage of all weapons. No wonder your buddy roflstomps through everything.

It is time to nerf those skills, but since everyone runs it in PvP, it will never get changed.

To not only complain:

• rally heal and major brutality need to be separate morphs with either one or the other buffs
• brawler needs to loose the shield
• wrecking blow needs to loose the CC (make it interrupt or at most daze to allow for followup CC, but not everything wrapped into one skill)
• crit rush needs loose the undocumented unbreakable stun

Then maybe, this line will be in line with others.

Cherryblossom

I agree with the people on here suggesting 2h for Rally, since I've started using this on my NB I've died twice in over a month of playing! Although I'm 2H and Dual, so I have Single Target (2H) and AOE (Dual).
I also have Bow maxed out, which TBH I only ever use in PVP now, when I know I'm defending or attacking a Keep for the extra range.
I used to use Bow in PVE but did not find it very effective against Mobs as you don't have a Group Snare at range so you get mobbed very quickly. I did find Magnum shot effective for creating range between my self and an attacker! Problem being sometimes this would put you in a place where you agro'd another group, which results in Cloak run for your life.

Shogunami

I'm not sure I will write anything that people haven't already said, and I hope this isn't too cluttered but I felt I wanted to give my thoughts on this.


I recognize your predicament quite a bit. I have a Nightblade that is VR7 now and I can kill mostly everything with one shot when attacking from sneak/stealth and was able to at VR1 as well, but in groups of 2-3 or more enemies I had some trouble at first, sometimes a 50/50 chance of dying because of being so squishy.


They have since patched the game and made some changes and buffed the Nightblade, as was much needed.

The strength of a Nightblade lies with his ability to dictate when and how you fight. Nightblades have powerful openers and finishers but aren't necessarily very strong mid-fight - that is, unless you get a two-handed weapon and absolutely bash the living jibbers out of your enemies. Using shadow cloak, you can decide when there is an active engagement or not - this ability gives you like 2.6 seconds of breathing space and time for you to maneuver yourself, or if needed, run. And if you have the Shadow Barrier passive you get an armor bonus for 2/4 seconds when activating a shadow ability. The only two shadow abilities I use are Surprise Attack and Dark Cloak - so after using Dark Cloak I have a few seconds where I take almost no damage, so sometimes the best strategy is to just use Dark Cloak and instantly attack, only to cloak again if need be. This skill gives a higher bonus if you wear heavy armor, but even with 0 heavy pieces you still get the base bonus.
Also, using using two-handed abilities from stealth is ridiculously devastating - and FUN!

Another very useful ability is Blur/Double Take or whatever it's called as it gives you a 20% increased chance to dodge all attack for 26 seconds.

As people have already stated, you need to kill your enemies before they can deal too much damage to you - because Nightblades have no real healing ability except for the worthless drain, and the actually somewhat useful Mark Target which increases your damage to said marked target and then heals you a substantial amount once that enemy is killed. Great for fights with 3 or more mobs, you can just mark a target, kill, mark a target, kill. With the two-handed skill tree you can get Momentum/Rally which is a nice passive'ish heal, it heals a bit for 30 seconds. If you don't get two-handed you will need, for example, blur, stealth, surprise attack, flurry, heavy attack, surprise attack, killer's blade, stealth again and jump around the battlefield like a ninja.

Because that's basically what we Nightblades are. Ninjas.
We can barely take a punch to the face, but can shank a guy in the gut several times before they even react.

For AOE or multiple enemies however, I'd say dual-wield and/or bow is the better bet. Sure, all attacks with two-handed also damages nearby enemies if you have the passives for it, but steel tornado or volley/scatter shot with bow is a lot better. Or so I'd say, anyway.

And if you haven't already, go craft yourself (or buy) a nice medium armor set with nice bonuses. I now use Hunding's Rage, which is awesome! But before that I used Ashen Grip, which is also pretty awesome even though it's one of the most low end sets.


People say Nightblades steamroll everything, but that's not necessarily true. It took me some time to really learn my class, but now I can solo Dolmens, more or less all world bosses, solo delves etc, most often without even breaking a sweat. And it's probably at least 50% due to me avoiding damage and setting the enemies of balance from stealth or with wrecking blow from two-handed weapons. As a world boss can take anywhere from 15-50% of my health in one attack, I really don't want to take any chances.

Mastering the Nightblade isn't as easy as they say, but once you do it's incredibly rewarding and fun.

I hope you enjoy your Nightblade!


Nightblade.

Nightblade.
I can say it all day.



They are blades in the night,
sees to it that it's over,
before there's even a fight.

Leandor

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I agree with the people on here suggesting 2h for Rally, since I've started using this on my NB I've died twice in over a month of playing! Although I'm 2H and Dual, so I have Single Target (2H) and AOE (Dual).
I also have Bow maxed out, which TBH I only ever use in PVP now, when I know I'm defending or attacking a Keep for the extra range.
I used to use Bow in PVE but did not find it very effective against Mobs as you don't have a Group Snare at range so you get mobbed very quickly. I did find Magnum shot effective for creating range between my self and an attacker! Problem being sometimes this would put you in a place where you agro'd another group, which results in Cloak run for your life.

Actually, bow has the best mass CC in the game (Bombard morph of arrow spray). Mob groups become a non-issue with this skill, if you combine it with dodging and venom arrow for ranged interrupt.

mtwiggz

My first character is a NB, I found it incredibly easy to solo most content.

Your main issue is lack of defensive abilities. What's your swap weapon? If your primary is a bow you should have DW or 2H on your off bar. 2H line gives you a stamina heal and buff in the skill Momentum, which is much better than Funnel Health. As Funnel Health scales off of magicka and obviously you're stamina based. If you don't want to go the 2H route then you could pick DW and use Mirage/Blur as a defense (increase dodge chance) and chug HP pots when you're filling a bit low.

Stamina NB's are meant to be stealthy, not out in your face like your DK buddy. Once you learn to play the class better you'll realize how absolutely awesome it is. Takes time.

Kronosphere

whats your 2ndary?
id suggest a 2H with rally/momentum for the 20% dmg buff and heal, as well as relentless focus for a further 8% damage and then use snipe or something. bows really depend on item sets to do crazy dps

firstdecan

I have a stam nightblade that mostly uses the bow (currently VR 13). For larger numbers of mobs, the easiest combo is to use reaper's mark on a couple of the mobs before you pull, then hose them down with Acid Spray. You'll still take a lot of damage, but when the marked targets die you'll get a big heal from them. You can also use reaper's mark on a target that's about to die for the quick heal.

On bosses I'm very dependent on pots. It helps to invest in the alchemy passives so you can pop the pots more often (plus make them for yourself).

The other nightblade heals are less powerful heals \ 'trickle' heals, so you have to use them consistently and interweave them into your rotation. I find they simply prolong an inevitable death instead of providing good sustainability. They do help in making sure I get through my pot cool down.

Obviously there's more to it than what I posted, but I think others have covered it. My stam nightblade can solo most group content (although I have had problems with some craglorn bosses). It's already through Caldwell's gold, can solo any public dungeon, and more than holds its own as a DPS in the group dungeons.

Just food for thought, your mileage may vary.

Edgemoor

This may help:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/158235/nb-dual-wield-bow-pve-dps-build-patch-2-0

Moonscythe

I have a question about survivability. I see advise to "chug potions" when needed. My experience at lower level than you are all talking about, is that I only have time for one potion before I die. The cooldown is so long and the effects are so slow in growing that a killing blow hits before I even have the full effects of the potion and if I try taking it earlier then there is still no time to take another before I am dead.

I am not that skilled but I do have time in TES and can slurp potions with the best but potions are not working for me in ESO. Is it just that potions get better later? Is there a way later to shorten the cooldown or speed the effects or take two at a time and I just have to wait and die at the lower levels I currently try to survive in, 'cause, I gotta say, dying sucks.

reften

Go 2H in one hand, use the rally buff, mirage buff, camo hunter buff, then flip to dual wield, ambush, flying blade, impale, steel tornado.

make sure all your sets boost weapon dam, and boost to weapon dam is on all your jewelry.

Game gets a lot easier.

AhPook_Is_Here

GrieverXVII wrote: »

I've just reached level 50 as a NB using a Bow and it feels like it's been nothing but an uphill struggle the entire game. My friend started at the same time as me, chose a DK/2H and his results are absolute opposite, he absolutely steamrolls through everything even in the VR's. His tanking, recovery, and damage is enough that he can pretty much solo group dungeons. I can barely stay alive against 4-5 enemies in a group dungeon. it's starting to make me feel extremely turned off of the fact that every dungeon we attempt ends in the same situation, I die in a couple minutes while he solo's the enemies and the boss by himself.

My concern is why does it feel like this game is constantly trying to make me play a different build i don't want too? why won't it let me play the game the way i want and still be viable? why do i have to conform to a meta to actually survive for more than 1 minute?

at this point i feel like the game clearly favors certain builds and really pushes you to conform near end game, it's the most frustrating and degrading feeling when every dungeon we walk into ends in me dying within minutes while he's able to solo a GROUP dungeon. extremely disheartening as I really do enjoy this game, but I also heavily refuse the need to conform to compete...is there no other way???

The answer is PVP.

Leandor

Potion 101:
Chug it when your health has dropped by the amount the pot gives back immediately. It brings you back to 100%, then increases HP regeneration which will help to survive until you can chug the next. Don't wait until you are almost dead.

Lylith

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

It used to be harder.
#oldcorps

much.

demendred

Tholian1 wrote: »

I can understand the frustration, but my experience with the NB is it takes some time to figure out how to use effectively (and I'm still learning). I always feel underpowered compared to others and burn through potions sometimes.

Try to bring along a healer when you do group dungeons. I have had decent success with just myself and a healer.

Very true.

Take a break, read up on builds, and go at it again. I wish you the best, and hope you're able to master NB.

Teiji

As mentioned already in the thread; Bombard is your absolute best friend and will help you shred packs, you can use only Bombard; using it every two to four seconds to keep mobs immobilized as you bake a cake, sip a hot beverage of your choosing.

General rule of thumb and I'm pointing out the obvious here;

Single target abilities - sacrifice multi-target damage for superior single target damage
Multi target abilities - sacrifice single target damage for superior multi target damage

Crowd control? It's common for abilities to be single or multi target with CC, they'll usually do less damage because of having CC which makes them strong, pure damage abilities isn't usually always what you want, as utility is really strong and always helps you do things more safely, not necessarily faster, but usually more safely and sometimes more efficiently as you can spend less time rounding enemies into a specific range; Volley with it's increased range for example.

If you're doing any kind of soloing at all, crowd control is something you always want to consider, depending on your build it may not be necessary. But using a bow to solo packs of mobs without Bombard is going to be awkward to say the least.

Try out Bombard, you'll enjoy it. Bombard with a Scorched Earth on top is always great, throw in a Soul Shred or Veil of Blades for good measure.