Comparison of mages

WyldfireWyrm · July 2015

So I want to hear opinions on what everyone thinks of destruction staff wielding mages by class. I currently have a 26 templar who heals in dungeons, but is a destro mage for solo content and dungeons where there already is a healer. I have also played a fire mage DK to level and enjoyed it, though I prefer the range of the templar a little more. I haven't played a sorc or nightblade though.

What do you think of the mage classes in terms of PVP and PVE?

What class does everyone prefer for their mage build?

Lynx7386 · July 2015

Sorceror "Mage":
-Nearly limitless magicka with dark ritual
-Heavy, cheap burst damage with crystal fragments
-Good AoE with mage's fury and lightning splash
-High mobility with streak
-Pets to help when soloing (clannfear, despite what everyone says, is an excellent tank)
-Long range style combat

Dragonknight "Mage":
-Heavy damage via damage over time (burning effect stacking) on most attacks
-Lots of self healing, control, and survivability spells
-Very close range style combat, most DK spells are short range

Nightblade "Mage":
-Tends to fight more like a melee character, using the 'summoned' daggers created by most nightblade abilities.
-Can fight at short or long range, and supplements damage with life stealing/healing spells
-Can play stealthily even without medium armor due to shadow cloak spam being an option for magicka builds

Templar "Mage":
-Lots of healing options without a restoration staff
-Can play up close with ardent spear skills, or at range with dawn's wrath
-Fairly durable

I've played all 4, and I would probably say that if you want to go for maximum damage output, go with a dragonknight / inferno staff setup. However, despite that being the most effective (damage wise, at least), I much preferred the play style and versatility of a templar caster. Solar mages are just downright fun.

Anhedonie · July 2015

How to use magicka dd templar:
-create a templar
-spec him into magicka dd
-delete him and reroll as dk

Sorc and NB have good resource managment. DK has higher DPS, but lacks ranged abilities

WyldfireWyrm · July 2015

I really like the healing of the Templar class over the self heals of the DK (which I personally don't feel are all that powerful). Templar spells are more my style with up front damage and not too many DoTs. I feel it handles multiple mobs better than the DK with damaging abilities that have multiple effects (healing, knock back, heal debuff, snare, etc). But I also feel the DK doesn't really start off with any great skills either while the Templar gets several. Plus I prefer to be a healer in MMOs, so the templar is the better class for me.

For the DKs, I am not a huge fan of DoT spells, which is an issue since most of their damage seems to rely on DoTs. And that sucks because I'm a huge fan of dragons and being a dragon knight was all I wanted when the game came out. I almost feel ashamed that I enjoy the Templar more. But the physically appearance of the spells and effects of the DK are right up my alley. I have a level 4 Dunmer DK that I'm either going to make into a fire mage or a tank (haven't decided yet, but I'm definitely leaning more towards mage).

For nightblade, I love the concept of stealthy classes, but I generally suck at playing them. I tried a stamina based NB not long ago and felt squishy in medium armor compared to my light armor templar. But I probably just didn't understand the skills all that well. I think it boils down to stealth class rotations just being too confusing for me.

Lastly, sorcs just aren't my style. I've never enjoyed pet classes. Even without the pets, I only enjoyed a couple of spells from the three skill lines. I'm terrible at remembering to watch for procs, which is what the sorc is all about with the crystal fragments spell. My damage with a build like that would be total garbage because miss the proc and it would just sit there, waiting to be used.

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

I play all magicka builds for each class, so here is my opinion on them all:

Sorcerer Caster-
I don't use pets at all in my Sorcerer build. I purely rely on Force Pulse + Crystal Frags for almost my whole rotation until the boss hits about 40%, and then I swap bars and go into overload.
This pulls fairly decent dps, and is strong and consistent, and good for the final burst damage you need.

Dragonknight Caster-
Absolutely the most fun I've ever had as a DPS. Sure, the idea of an entire rotation of DoTs scares off people, but, really, it's awesome all around. A typical rotation for me is Eruption + Molten Armaments buff + Engulfing Flames + Burning Embers and then I lead into a Molten Whip weave until my DoTs need to be refreshed, etc. etc. Standard of Might is my go to ultimate 99.9% of the time. I enjoy DPSing on my DK the most.

Nightblade Caster-
Very powerful, and the AoE skill you obtain for this class is excellent and extremely useful. Not to mention Veil of Blades is just something every group should really not go without.
However, if you go this route, get used to Funnel Health weaving, because that's most of your DPS.

Templar "Mage"-
I don't purely DPS on my Templar. For trials, I mainly heal. For VDSA I heal/dps. I use Puncturing Sweeps and Radiant Oppression mostly. This has been the most fun setup for me in my entirety in this game because it is very challenging. Trying to keep your group alive while dealing tons of damage is just really exciting

Really, any option is great for a magicka build. Just pick one and have fun with it. (:

FriedEggSandwich · July 2015

Sorcerers have some class passives that give them an edge in casting imo. Unholy Knowledge reduces the stamina/magicka costs of all abilities, Capacitor to boost your magicka regen, and Expert Mage will boost spell damage by 2% for every sorc skill you slot (max 12%, realistically 10%). This means that sorcerers should be able to attain a higher magicka regen than any other class, and higher spell damage than any other class, especially if you add in the altmer racial passives.

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sorcerers have some class passives that give them an edge in casting imo. Unholy Knowledge reduces the stamina/magicka costs of all abilities, Capacitor to boost your magicka regen, and Expert Mage will boost spell damage by 2% for every sorc skill you slot (max 12%, realistically 10%). This means that sorcerers should be able to attain a higher magicka regen than any other class, and higher spell damage than any other class, especially if you add in the altmer racial passives.

Unfortunately, Sorcerers do not have a spammable class skill for DPS, and must rely on destruction staves for Crushing Shock/Force Pulse for most of their DPS until it is a viable point to pop Overload. If we're talking end-game here, in my opinion and in my testing on all Trials and on all Vet dungeon, Sorcerer pulls the least amount of DPS. It's still insanely fun to play, and I do DPS on my Sorc often, but compare her 16k sustain to my DK's 20+k sustain...and, well, there's your answer.

FriedEggSandwich · July 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sorcerers have some class passives that give them an edge in casting imo. Unholy Knowledge reduces the stamina/magicka costs of all abilities, Capacitor to boost your magicka regen, and Expert Mage will boost spell damage by 2% for every sorc skill you slot (max 12%, realistically 10%). This means that sorcerers should be able to attain a higher magicka regen than any other class, and higher spell damage than any other class, especially if you add in the altmer racial passives.

Unfortunately, Sorcerers do not have a spammable class skill for DPS, and must rely on destruction staves for Crushing Shock/Force Pulse for most of their DPS until it is a viable point to pop Overload. If we're talking end-game here, in my opinion and in my testing on all Trials and on all Vet dungeon, Sorcerer pulls the least amount of DPS. It's still insanely fun to play, and I do DPS on my Sorc often, but compare her 16k sustain to my DK's 20+k sustain...and, well, there's your answer.

The OP opened with "So I want to hear opinions on what everyone thinks of destruction staff wielding mages by class". The sorcerer passives that I mentioned would indeed help with wielding a destro staff, probably more than any other class.

Edit: Mages wrath is my spammable dps filler in pvp (I don't pve).

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sorcerers have some class passives that give them an edge in casting imo. Unholy Knowledge reduces the stamina/magicka costs of all abilities, Capacitor to boost your magicka regen, and Expert Mage will boost spell damage by 2% for every sorc skill you slot (max 12%, realistically 10%). This means that sorcerers should be able to attain a higher magicka regen than any other class, and higher spell damage than any other class, especially if you add in the altmer racial passives.

Unfortunately, Sorcerers do not have a spammable class skill for DPS, and must rely on destruction staves for Crushing Shock/Force Pulse for most of their DPS until it is a viable point to pop Overload. If we're talking end-game here, in my opinion and in my testing on all Trials and on all Vet dungeon, Sorcerer pulls the least amount of DPS. It's still insanely fun to play, and I do DPS on my Sorc often, but compare her 16k sustain to my DK's 20+k sustain...and, well, there's your answer.

The OP opened with "So I want to hear opinions on what everyone thinks of destruction staff wielding mages by class". The sorcerer passives that I mentioned would indeed help with wielding a destro staff, probably more than any other class.

Edit: Mages wrath is my spammable dps filler in pvp (I don't pve).

I see your point, and I'm just putting in my input that while Sorcerer does arguably benefit the most from destruction staff, it is probably the weakest of all of them in terms of damage that it can do total with a Destro staff equipped. I'm not sure if the OP is going to be more focused on PvE or PvP, but if it's PvE, then, yes, Sorc is always a valid choice for Destro staff, but I do honestly think DK will always be better. As for PvP, well, Sorc is definitely the strongest as a caster.

While Mage's Wrath is spammable, it's not viable for PvE as a spammable filler. I'd like some sort of attack that could be used like Molten Whip or Funnel Health that would allow Sorcs to break from the Crushing Shock/Force pulse meta ):

FriedEggSandwich · July 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sorcerers have some class passives that give them an edge in casting imo. Unholy Knowledge reduces the stamina/magicka costs of all abilities, Capacitor to boost your magicka regen, and Expert Mage will boost spell damage by 2% for every sorc skill you slot (max 12%, realistically 10%). This means that sorcerers should be able to attain a higher magicka regen than any other class, and higher spell damage than any other class, especially if you add in the altmer racial passives.

Unfortunately, Sorcerers do not have a spammable class skill for DPS, and must rely on destruction staves for Crushing Shock/Force Pulse for most of their DPS until it is a viable point to pop Overload. If we're talking end-game here, in my opinion and in my testing on all Trials and on all Vet dungeon, Sorcerer pulls the least amount of DPS. It's still insanely fun to play, and I do DPS on my Sorc often, but compare her 16k sustain to my DK's 20+k sustain...and, well, there's your answer.

The OP opened with "So I want to hear opinions on what everyone thinks of destruction staff wielding mages by class". The sorcerer passives that I mentioned would indeed help with wielding a destro staff, probably more than any other class.

Edit: Mages wrath is my spammable dps filler in pvp (I don't pve).

I see your point, and I'm just putting in my input that while Sorcerer does arguably benefit the most from destruction staff, it is probably the weakest of all of them in terms of damage that it can do total with a Destro staff equipped. I'm not sure if the OP is going to be more focused on PvE or PvP, but if it's PvE, then, yes, Sorc is always a valid choice for Destro staff, but I do honestly think DK will always be better. As for PvP, well, Sorc is definitely the strongest as a caster.

While Mage's Wrath is spammable, it's not viable for PvE as a spammable filler. I'd like some sort of attack that could be used like Molten Whip or Funnel Health that would allow Sorcs to break from the Crushing Shock/Force pulse meta ):

Agreed. I don't pve cos nobody wants my 13k dps, and on the rare occasion I do a pledge I will equip crushing shock as my filler. You're right that dks are the best end game pve casters, they have all the dots. DKs are much better at sustain but suck at burst. For pve you need sustain. My sorc walks all over DKs in pvp land though.

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

show previous quotes

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Sorcerers have some class passives that give them an edge in casting imo. Unholy Knowledge reduces the stamina/magicka costs of all abilities, Capacitor to boost your magicka regen, and Expert Mage will boost spell damage by 2% for every sorc skill you slot (max 12%, realistically 10%). This means that sorcerers should be able to attain a higher magicka regen than any other class, and higher spell damage than any other class, especially if you add in the altmer racial passives.

Unfortunately, Sorcerers do not have a spammable class skill for DPS, and must rely on destruction staves for Crushing Shock/Force Pulse for most of their DPS until it is a viable point to pop Overload. If we're talking end-game here, in my opinion and in my testing on all Trials and on all Vet dungeon, Sorcerer pulls the least amount of DPS. It's still insanely fun to play, and I do DPS on my Sorc often, but compare her 16k sustain to my DK's 20+k sustain...and, well, there's your answer.

The OP opened with "So I want to hear opinions on what everyone thinks of destruction staff wielding mages by class". The sorcerer passives that I mentioned would indeed help with wielding a destro staff, probably more than any other class.

Edit: Mages wrath is my spammable dps filler in pvp (I don't pve).

I see your point, and I'm just putting in my input that while Sorcerer does arguably benefit the most from destruction staff, it is probably the weakest of all of them in terms of damage that it can do total with a Destro staff equipped. I'm not sure if the OP is going to be more focused on PvE or PvP, but if it's PvE, then, yes, Sorc is always a valid choice for Destro staff, but I do honestly think DK will always be better. As for PvP, well, Sorc is definitely the strongest as a caster.

While Mage's Wrath is spammable, it's not viable for PvE as a spammable filler. I'd like some sort of attack that could be used like Molten Whip or Funnel Health that would allow Sorcs to break from the Crushing Shock/Force pulse meta ):

Agreed. I don't pve cos nobody wants my 13k dps, and on the rare occasion I do a pledge I will equip crushing shock as my filler. You're right that dks are the best end game pve casters, they have all the dots. DKs are much better at sustain but suck at burst. For pve you need sustain. My sorc walks all over DKs in pvp land though.

I find Sorcs better for sustain in PvE, and DKs better for the initial minute of burst damage. It gets rough without a very min/maxed build to keep a DK sustained for, say, over 3 minutes, while my Sorc always has to option to toggle Overload, restore a bit of magicka, and then go back to a Force Pulse weave xD

But yes, Sorc is definitely way better in PvP than a DK. Sorc may be weak in PvE to an extent, but in PvP the class is amazing. It's a viable class overall, but it definitely has its strengths and weaknesses.

WyldfireWyrm · July 2015

I'm definitely more PVE focused. I like PVP when I can use the catapult, but when it comes down to face-to-face combat, I'm sub par. I joined a bunch of people doing PVP a few months ago while I was on my fire mage DK and it was really the first time I'd ever PVPed. We were suppose to be a ganking group that was ambushing smaller numbers of people between keeps, but we ended up as part of a large attack force. I died a lot and was very frustrated with the experience because of all the travelling back and forth through long load screens and short lived bursts of combat before I would die again. I was wearing 5 light armor, which probably attributed to most of my deaths unfortunately. I ended up getting so irrationally frustrated that I deleted my DK fire mage because I want a character that can do both PVP and PVE well.

I keep hearing people say that fire mage DKs do well in PVP. Can anyone link a build or explain how they make it successful?

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

I'm definitely more PVE focused. I like PVP when I can use the catapult, but when it comes down to face-to-face combat, I'm sub par. I joined a bunch of people doing PVP a few months ago while I was on my fire mage DK and it was really the first time I'd ever PVPed. We were suppose to be a ganking group that was ambushing smaller numbers of people between keeps, but we ended up as part of a large attack force. I died a lot and was very frustrated with the experience because of all the travelling back and forth through long load screens and short lived bursts of combat before I would die again. I was wearing 5 light armor, which probably attributed to most of my deaths unfortunately. I ended up getting so irrationally frustrated that I deleted my DK fire mage because I want a character that can do both PVP and PVE well.

I keep hearing people say that fire mage DKs do well in PVP. Can anyone link a build or explain how they make it successful?

If you want a character than can do PvE and PvP relatively well then Sorc is a good option. You really don't have to switch around much in CPs or attributes, and can efficiently switch between PvE and PvP gear without any problems.

For a DK fire mage in PvP, it's played with a combination of reflect, shields, and casting, but also being able to be in somewhat melee range. When I go into PvP on me DK, however, I tend to just slot a whole new armor setup and sword and shield and use a different build.

Dracane · July 2015

Sorcerer's DPS is the lowest DPS of all classes. Dragonknight and Templar are better mages when it comes to damage.

You only have force shock and crystal shard procs. Lightning splash pushes our DPS a bit, so that it doesn't look that poor. But lightning splash is not useable against almost all bosses. The lightning splash buff was an important step, but it's by far not enough, to make Sorcerer equal to other classes' DPS. And no, the upcoming mage's fury buff will not fix this.

Dracane · July 2015

It's very depressing. I deal 6-9 DPS, while other classes deal 16k or so.
And I don't even know, what I'm doing wrong. I have spell damage everywhere and on the paper, I should be dealing 16k or more. But this is not the case in reality (don't know what's wrong)

I must put so much efforts in dealing damage and need to use several abilities, while other classes simply spam 1 ability to deal high damage.

DisgracefulMind · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

It's very depressing. I deal 6-9 DPS, while other classes deal 16k or so.
And I don't even know, what I'm doing wrong. I have spell damage everywhere and on the paper, I should be dealing 16k or more. But this is not the case in reality (don't know what's wrong)

I must put so much efforts in dealing damage and need to use several abilities, while other classes simply spam 1 ability to deal high damage.

Are you using Overload at all? Overload is really good for the last 40% of a boss fight (:

I can pull 14-16k on my Sorc, sustained.

Morvul · July 2015

for PvE:

if you want to play a purely ranged caster, nothing does it better then a sorc.
That said, even sorcs are not terribly impressive in that role...
If you are willing to partially play in melee range, nothing beats a DK caster

for PvP:
the meta will probably change to favour nightblades even more then it does already,
but in general terms - the ability to reposition or run away is highly valuable in cyrodiil, so naturally sorcs are strong caster option there

BurtFreeman · July 2015

to be or not to be a sorc? this is the problem.
i think is much better to be a sorc!

since the very first levels, you have the best skills of the game: ranged stun, immobilizing, mobility; pets, best ultimate, and at the high class you have the best ward of the game.
in the begin could be lack in healing, so the way my mage is a nord.
dps
damage come for different way, a sorc have access at the very best skill to obtain a wanderfull dps, with dot set up and the best passives of the game. in calculating damage you may be keep in mind that a powerfull spell like cfrag has a stun of it, that make almost your pve enemy cheap flash.
there is really nothing a sorc can't do soloing, it has the best ranged crowd control skills of the game; you can approch different way to fight, alone or with pets.
hardened ward + unstable cleanfear + twilight matriarch + the atronach: well, you are going to fight with your personal healer, a taunting distracting pets, and the destructive power of the great atronach plus the ward, the best of the game. then put cfrag and crushing shock on top of them. there are lot of things in here.
i am not playing pvp to much, but the sorc is very strong in it, becouse of his mobility, and a large range of skills that cover all around what you are going to needs. you may have a great build just using the class skill.

sorc need to be nerfed, if we like balance.

Dracane · July 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dracane wrote: »

It's very depressing. I deal 6-9 DPS, while other classes deal 16k or so.
And I don't even know, what I'm doing wrong. I have spell damage everywhere and on the paper, I should be dealing 16k or more. But this is not the case in reality (don't know what's wrong)

I must put so much efforts in dealing damage and need to use several abilities, while other classes simply spam 1 ability to deal high damage.

Are you using Overload at all? Overload is really good for the last 40% of a boss fight (:

I can pull 14-16k on my Sorc, sustained.

Yea I wonder, why you only use it for 40% of the boss fight

It's enough for an entire bossfight usually. I safe my Ultimate until a boss is there.I'm happy, Overload is finally usefull and deals some reasonable damage. It's a really unique and interesting Ultimate now.

But you have to take into account, that you can't use force shock weaving and crystal shard procs when in Overload mode. So the question is, if normal force shock spam+ Atronach (or another Ultimate) might not beat Overload. I think the main benefit of Overload is, that it offers some sustained DPS in dungeons, when you safe your Ultimate.

Sigh89 · July 2015

I play a pretty unoriginal/cookie cutter Breton/Vamp/Sorc with Frags and Impulse. I enjoy min/maxing though, and the gameplay is super satisfying for me. That feeling when you cancel animations into frag procs like 6x in a row and mow things down with a machine gun of magic is glorious!

eliisra · July 2015

DK mage: Best PvE dps. Average in PvP. Lack of escapes and mobility makes a glass house DK nuker, pretty hard to play.

Sorc mage: Best PvP hands down. Can also pull some crazy numbers for short burst fights in PvE.

NB mage: Has the advantage of doing great healing while still in a dps spec, pulling half-decent numbers. Great fun in PvP, both solo and grouped.

Templar mage: Can do even greater healing, while still in a dps spec pulling decent numbers. Sadly needs a group and be willing to heal some, to shine in Cyrodiil or PvP.

Generally speaking, NB, sorc and templar have pretty similar sustained magicka dps, from what I'm noticing. Neither is all that impressive and all lacking behind stamina builds. This especially the case when it comes to AoE. Sorc also lacks good synergy with a stamina build, so that's a bit annoying for them.

BurtFreeman · July 2015

Sigh89 wrote: »

when you cancel animations into frag procs...

what does it mean? (i am not so good with english)

Sigh89 · July 2015

BurtFreeman wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sigh89 wrote: »

when you cancel animations into frag procs...

what does it mean? (i am not so good with english)

that is quite alright my friend, here you go, this is how i learned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb0O9zjMDN4

BurtFreeman · July 2015

Sigh89 wrote: »

... that is quite alright my friend, here you go ...

thank you very much, seems to be a nice help, is like setting up a jab before an havy ko punch.