What is Zerging?

Ezareth

DezIsDead wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

DezIsDead wrote: »

To be fair "Zerg" is overused in eso, a lot of people call a 24 man group a Zerg due to the fact that 24 man groups tend to bring about lag. But IMO a Zerg is like 28+ . Group sizes are 24 for a reason, anything more should be construed as a Zerg. Due to whatever is causing lag (bad coding or particles, servers, whatever it is) people generalize anything over about 18 as a Zerg

To me a 24 man group is a zerg.

I saw a group of 12 EP the other day in a stealth gank group zerging down solo players as they ran to reinforce a battle.

I think Zerg a term relative to the numbers you're facing. If you're continually fighting numbers of players that number anything less than twice the size of your organized group, you're probably zerging.

Back in the days of Murder Thumbs we'd have 24-30 people taking on 200-300. These days it is 24 people taking on 24-48 and there is no competition.

touche. I can respect the relative term. i mean for a word that originated from video games the definition most certainly is going to be relative to ones own perspective.

Yeah the original definition almost certainly came from the "Zerg Rush" not the definition of the Zerg itself". Just a tactic of quickly overwhelming your opponent with vastly superior numbers of inferior units before an appropriate defense can be mounted against it. The Zerg are the best race in Starcraft at accomplishing this.

Heathenpride

Ezareth wrote: »

To me a 24 man group is a zerg.

I have led a few 24 person groups over the last week and I must disagree on that.

We had strategy and battle plans. We had everyone doing different tasks, we weren't just blobbing up and down the map all night.

Keeping a good 24 person group on-task is not easy, in fact it can be quite draining, so i was proud of our little army that we had going on, if that's what others call zerging then so be it but to me it was just common sense to get a bunch together and work together to smite the enemy with tactics and an actual plan that involved attack AND defense.

Ezareth wrote: »

I saw a group of 12 EP the other day in a stealth gank group zerging down solo players as they ran to reinforce a battle.

This just seems smart to me but I would use 6, not 12. I would also not just target solo troops I would target any group of 3 or less so that each enemy troop had 2 group members attacking them.

Lionxoft

Blobbing = Zerging in ESO. It's not really all about numbers but in my opinion when a group all sticks on top of one person spamming aoe, breath of life, prox det and purge etc mindlessly it becomes a zerg.

Lionxoft

Heathenpride wrote: »

We had strategy and battle plans. We had everyone doing different tasks, we weren't just blobbing up and down the map all night.

More often than not your strategy isn't as cool as you think it is and it falls under the same category as the blobz. I've played with these types of groups that try to make it seem like their strategies are intricate and well thought out but in reality it is just zerging.

Roselle

The better question is:

Are you turtling or are you zerging?

Ezareth

Heathenpride wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To me a 24 man group is a zerg.

I have led a few 24 person groups over the last week and I must disagree on that.

We had strategy and battle plans. We had everyone doing different tasks, we weren't just blobbing up and down the map all night.

Keeping a good 24 person group on-task is not easy, in fact it can be quite draining, so i was proud of our little army that we had going on, if that's what others call zerging then so be it but to me it was just common sense to get a bunch together and work together to smite the enemy with tactics and an actual plan that involved attack AND defense.

Ezareth wrote: »

I saw a group of 12 EP the other day in a stealth gank group zerging down solo players as they ran to reinforce a battle.

This just seems smart to me but I would use 6, not 12. I would also not just target solo troops I would target any group of 3 or less so that each enemy troop had 2 group members attacking them.

We're all entitled to our opinions. I've been on both sides of that equation. I agree that leading groups is draining and that tactics are involved, but only at the macro level.

The 12 man to me was excessive and even a 6 man gank group against individuals is boring as hell and not competitive or even fun. Just a sort of grinding that has personified what Cyrodiil has become for many.

Heathenpride

Lionxoft wrote: »

More often than not your strategy isn't as cool as you think it is and it falls under the same category as the blobz. I've played with these types of groups that try to make it seem like their strategies are intricate and well thought out but in reality it is just zerging.

I wasn't suggesting that it was cool but it was effective.

Honestly, if there's a group of 24 people out there and they have a leader that breaks them down to smaller groups that are responsible for certain aspects (of the overall plan) how can that be construed as being on the same level as mindless zerging?

If that is the case then what you are saying is that we should all run around in groups of one with no organisation?

I can't do that, if I am going to enter a PvP battlefield that requires group tactics and co-ordination to win (which it does, can't take or keep a castle with 1-4 people) then I will organise a group and do just that... If that's considered to be zerging then so be it, guilty as charged your honour.

Ezareth wrote: »

We're all entitled to our opinions. I've been on both sides of that equation. I agree that leading groups is draining and that tactics are involved, but only at the macro level.

The 12 man to me was excessive and even a 6 man gank group against individuals is boring as hell and not competitive or even fun. Just a sort of grinding that has personified what Cyrodiil has become for many.

I don't see that as boring at all. A single player can do a bit of damage and if I have a siege set up and can spare half a dozen players then I will absolutely instruct them to go stealth and specifically pick off any small groups or single players. To me it's not about running off and attacking anything that moves every second, it's about getting that ring of keeps and ensuring that the EP gets scrolls and emperorship and that can't happen without patience and tactics.

At the end of the day I am not here to concern myself with providing mercy to someone because they are outnumbered, I sure as hell don't get afforded the same courtesy! Mindless mobs with no strategy can go and eat a bag of Richards but I will still continue to organise groups with the aim to lay waste to AD and DC and I will keep applying tactics to do so.

eliisra

Heathenpride wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To me a 24 man group is a zerg.

I have led a few 24 person groups over the last week and I must disagree on that.

We had strategy and battle plans. We had everyone doing different tasks, we weren't just blobbing up and down the map all night.

My opinion. It depends what the 24-man group is doing. Being a zerg, is really about who you're fighting.

Full 24-man raids camping a resource, hiding in a tower, Meteor bombing, tea bagging and tryharding some small group and a solo'er in sneak. That's zergy and pathetic.

But when a 24-man raid is the only thing standing between the scroll and 60+ enemies + the emperor, than you're really not being much of a zerg. You're in a large raid, but also outnumbered while the task is important. Getting a full raid together, when the situation requires it, why the hell should that be defined as zerging?

Deep inside, I think we all know when we're zerging and when our numbers are reasonable. All these ridiculous defence speeches "but it's only 7 of us here blah-blah small scale!" while conveniently not counting the other raid, the emperor and the horde of randoms backing you up against a low population enemy being gate camped. Yeah, you're definitely doing some quality small scale right there

aldiablo

Haha it's a zerg of answers to my question

Heathenpride

aldiablo wrote: »

Haha it's a zerg of answers to my question

Haha, you opened the floodgates Al so take your zerging like a man and get ready for some Dilmah magic!

Ezareth

Heathenpride wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

More often than not your strategy isn't as cool as you think it is and it falls under the same category as the blobz. I've played with these types of groups that try to make it seem like their strategies are intricate and well thought out but in reality it is just zerging.

I wasn't suggesting that it was cool but it was effective.

Honestly, if there's a group of 24 people out there and they have a leader that breaks them down to smaller groups that are responsible for certain aspects (of the overall plan) how can that be construed as being on the same level as mindless zerging?

If that is the case then what you are saying is that we should all run around in groups of one with no organisation?

I can't do that, if I am going to enter a PvP battlefield that requires group tactics and co-ordination to win (which it does, can't take or keep a castle with 1-4 people) then I will organise a group and do just that... If that's considered to be zerging then so be it, guilty as charged your honour.

Ezareth wrote: »

We're all entitled to our opinions. I've been on both sides of that equation. I agree that leading groups is draining and that tactics are involved, but only at the macro level.

The 12 man to me was excessive and even a 6 man gank group against individuals is boring as hell and not competitive or even fun. Just a sort of grinding that has personified what Cyrodiil has become for many.

I don't see that as boring at all. A single player can do a bit of damage and if I have a siege set up and can spare half a dozen players then I will absolutely instruct them to go stealth and specifically pick off any small groups or single players. To me it's not about running off and attacking anything that moves every second, it's about getting that ring of keeps and ensuring that the EP gets scrolls and emperorship and that can't happen without patience and tactics.

At the end of the day I am not here to concern myself with providing mercy to someone because they are outnumbered, I sure as hell don't get afforded the same courtesy! Mindless mobs with no strategy can go and eat a bag of Richards but I will still continue to organise groups with the aim to lay waste to AD and DC and I will keep applying tactics to do so.

I used to run a 16-24 man and take keeps against far larger groups just fine. I sure as hell never sent half a dozen players mid zone to kill reinforcements, I usually kept a couple people guarding the entrances with oil/meatbags( I often handled this myself as well). This allowed me to reinforce the final push with them if necessary or kept my force close enough to them to be able to provide them reinforcements in the even a large party arrived.

12 men stealthed in a field between keeps is a gank group and yes that is pretty boring in such large numbers. 2-4 man gank groups are ok as small group combat often happens in those situations and that is when the game is most fun to me. I think most of the annoying/frustrating things in this game other than the obvious bug/lag are the "Farming CP" groups and mindset that ZoS has created with this game. It's just one ball of people who have no interest in a campaign or objectives or anything other than killing as many people as easily and quickly as possible.

Lionxoft

Heathenpride wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

More often than not your strategy isn't as cool as you think it is and it falls under the same category as the blobz. I've played with these types of groups that try to make it seem like their strategies are intricate and well thought out but in reality it is just zerging.

I wasn't suggesting that it was cool but it was effective.

Honestly, if there's a group of 24 people out there and they have a leader that breaks them down to smaller groups that are responsible for certain aspects (of the overall plan) how can that be construed as being on the same level as mindless zerging?

If that is the case then what you are saying is that we should all run around in groups of one with no organisation?

I can't do that, if I am going to enter a PvP battlefield that requires group tactics and co-ordination to win (which it does, can't take or keep a castle with 1-4 people) then I will organise a group and do just that... If that's considered to be zerging then so be it, guilty as charged your honour.

@Heathenpride

HUGE difference between blaming the player and blaming the game. It's not the player's fault that the game was so horrendously designed that cleanses, heals, aoe dmg spam and blobbing are so insanely available or effective.

Don't take it personal. Blobbing and zerging is most definitely effective in this game. It's the game's fault for not having game logic in place to deter that behavior. That said your strategies are nothing new and even my dog can follow the leader.