40k damage shield - will it be fixed?

Baphomet

They have the best shields, the best dps, the best mobility and the best escape mechanism. Not even gonna mention the class but it is facepalm easymode right now.

Will it be addressed soon? @ZoS

Emma_Overload

Baphomet wrote: »

They have the best shields, the best dps, the best mobility and the best escape mechanism. Not even gonna mention the class but it is facepalm easymode right now.

Will it be addressed soon? @ZoS

How are Nightblades getting 40K shields?

Garion

ArvenAldmeri

You are talking about class that does not exist, dude.
DKs - no escape - out.
NBs - no shields - out.
Templars - no escape - out.
Sorcerers - one shield, yes, strong shield, but everyone can have light armor shield and healing ward and sorcs need something when light armor was nerfed so badly, without shield sorc would be dead after one second. They do have high damage but not the highest in the game. Ever fought as NB or were fighting a NB? No? Try it. Sorcs are very, very, VERY limited for stamina. 3 dodge rolls and end. 2 break free and end. Easy mode? TRY TO PLAY IT! Sorcs are NOT easy mode, [snip] -.-

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]

Cinnamon_Spider

First there were claims of 15k and then 20k. Now we're up to 40k? Did someone see a video with a bugged shield bar?

iseko

40k os possible but not sustainable. And a big chunk will be harness. Which does nothing to stamina builds. This discussion has been had to death already....

A sorc can shield stack but it is unmitigated.
A sorc cant do dps and defense at same time and since shields are unmitigated they go down fast.
Sorcs have mobility but at a high cost.

Basically: a sorc has too choose between high sustain+mobility or high dps/shields. Cant have both.

There you go: the conclusion to every sorc thread since 1.6

Addendum: weeeeeeeeiiiiiihhh nerf dzem bad sorcs cuz I wantz instagib all

rfennell_ESO

Meanwhile, anyone can go vampire and get a very useful and very effective escape that also gives you mobility.

Baphomet

Thanks for the bumps, guys - so @ZoS 40k shield stacking - a feature or oversight?

40k might not be sustainable, but you can easily get 28k by two clicks and practically zero magicka.

Cogo

Hi

The same buffs, which has a buff name, do not stack, but different name buffs does. The "Damage shield", like barrier, that isn't a buff, but pure damage absorb, does stack.

So, you have lots of different kinds of shields, from global skills and Class specific skills in all classes to choose from. Allies can use synergy abilities and then you only need to press the Synergy button. Add block, roll and evade to that. Your choice of type of armor, Light, medium, Heavy, is also a factor. Quite big.

As long as you have the buffs, they work as intended.

How much you can absorb, pretty much depends on your setup, teamwork, personal skill and your activity speed regarding when to act and what to do.

Buffs have a timer and wears off in time or when the absorb is used up. If someone stacks different shields, then they will more then likely run out of resources pretty fast. If someone keeps using defensive abilities, just wait a bit for them to wear off before you 1-man- zerg -smash -the -same -buttons - attack.

There is always ways to get to anyone, or defend against anything. You just can not use the same thing to everything. Here is where your player skill (not character), comes in the most. You have to adapt and do whats needed.

If someone don't take much damage. Stop...
Then adapt in a second and change your tactic.

Oh, most shield/absorb buffs do not protect against stuns. (Hint)

Good luck!

iseko

Baphomet wrote: »

Thanks for the bumps, guys - so @ZoS 40k shield stacking - a feature or oversight?

40k might not be sustainable, but you can easily get 28k by two clicks and practically zero magicka.

And only one of those clicks will work against stamina. Hardend, crit rush, streak, crit rush, hardened, wrecking blow. We can keeps this up for a while. Not to mention the shield bleed effect...

Kupoking

Whats the difference between sorc shield stacking and stam dps roll dodgers?

Stam build eventually runs out ressource to dodge and do damage.

Kupoking

Not to mention:.I seem to almost never crit on shields.

FriedEggSandwich

40k? You probably saw a Healing Ward at low hp. My hardened ward is 11k and my dampen is 16k. So that's 27k and 16k of that is magic only, so actually only an 11k physical shield, which is the only one unique to a sorc. Get good op.

Truewan

Lets stay on topic here.

In my experience, the survivability, mobility, damage and utility of sorcs are overpowered in SOME situations.

I don't mind though, because every class should have a nook to fulfill in pvp, nightblades have fear and single target dps, dk's have whip and reflect and templars have... umm really bad self-heals and an average execute unless they are magicka users.

Sorcs have bolt escape and shields. I've seen a sorc use bolt escape 10 times before he stopped, and he only stopped because I chased him so far from my teammates... at which point he easily 1v1'd me.

The issue with Sorcs is that they have too much power to survive and it's too easy for them to escape. Give them one or another in terms of use them to survive. Either you take the shields or the bolt escape. - my suggestion.

PS his shield was 20k, I don't know how as I don't play a sorc. He was fully geared VR14... so... there's that to take into consideration.

Kupoking

11k on your hardened ward is still a lot for a damage build. I get 7.4k on my stamplar with his radiant ward. 9k if he got his tank build.

FriedEggSandwich

I can't even believe some of the stuff here is actually being said. "Too easy for them to escape" - what does this even mean? Where are the guidelines on how easy it should be to escape? When were you ever killed by someone running away? These threads are always full of such BS. I can streak about 15 times in a row, why does it even matter unless I'm streaking through you 15 times in a row? If I streak 5 times in a row I no longer have enough magicka left to win a fight, that is reality. If I streak 15 times in a row I need to sit for nearly a minute to regen magicka. Go learn some counters people, there are plenty out there.

Edit: typos

jpalm1995

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

You are talking about class that does not exist, dude.
DKs - no escape - out.
NBs - no shields - out.
Templars - no escape - out.
Sorcerers - one shield, yes, strong shield, but everyone can have light armor shield and healing ward and sorcs need something when light armor was nerfed so badly, without shield sorc would be dead after one second. They do have high damage but not the highest in the game. Ever fought as NB or were fighting a NB? No? Try it. Sorcs are very, very, VERY limited for stamina. 3 dodge rolls and end. 2 break free and end. Easy mode? TRY TO PLAY IT! Sorcs are NOT easy mode, god damn it! -.-

Why can't sorcs wear heavy like templars and DKs? My templar needs magicka just as much as a sorc... Wheres my 20k damage shield?

Baragorath

I believe @Baphomet has in mind solo pvp.

Yes, actually sorcs for solo killing going full magicka from gear and from atributtes and they dont care fighting against few enemies.

Full magicka gives them stronger shields and they dont care about health bar having 13k health total, as it is better to invest into magicka and increase dps and shield strenght. (for exp. DK shield is based on health)

They dont care about stamina, in worst situation they bolt escape thanks to high amount of magicka. (They have stamina for 2 breaks free and enough time till next cc can be applied to bolt escape)

They will hit you as truck with max magicka/spell dmg spec using overload. (DK can not reflect this)

They will protect self against targeting them by having always two pets close to you. (Pets have owner buffs)

Sorceror is not scare solo pvp anymore.

Update 6 is for Sorcerer and destroyer of DK.

Thats the way how balance is improved by destroy DK class skills.

Kupoking

Well you escape a losing situation(got ganked, ate an ult, ressources r low), come back after regen try again(idealy with a burst opening). Rince n repeat until you win.

Thats the real problem with streak.

Kupoking

Sorcs, overall, have a kit that is way too complete which makes them successful regardless of changes in meta or slight nerfs they receive.

Its been called master class since beta, and there is a reason why.

I mean, people are stacking nirn right now in current meta and magika sorc still dominate the pvp fields.

FriedEggSandwich

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorcs, overall, have a kit that is way too complete which makes them successful regardless of changes in meta or slight nerfs they receive.

Its been called master class since beta, and there is a reason why.

I mean, people are stacking nirn right now in current meta and magika sorc still dominate the pvp fields.

Who called it the master class since beta? Sorcs have always been bad at end game pve thanks to sucky sustained dps, and up until 1.6 were fairly sucky in pvp. Well maybe not sucky but definitely mediocre. Sorcs didn't even get that many buffs in 1.6, I remember people trolling saying rip sorcs etc. cos 1.6 didn't seem to do much for them, we lost our beloved light armour spell res and they tried to buff pets. The only changes that made life easier for me as a sorc were removal of soft-caps, can stack curses from different players, frags got a tiny bit more damage, as did curse, hardened ward got buffed so the ward refreshed on re-cast (pre-1.6 a re-cast would refresh the duration but not the ward). That is literally the sum total of the changes that affected me in a positive way. I was stacking shields way before 1.6, it was just a bit harder back then.

If anything about a sorc needs a nerf I would say it was overload. And maybe healing ward/ward ally needs a look at. Streak is fine though, really, as is shield stacking. The champion system is distorting things a bit, but cp aside sorcs are really not that op.

Kupoking

Are you serious? Ever went on tamriel foundry forums? Lowest dps numbers ??? Never seen the batswarm impulse meta?

No now your are just being dishonnest about the suject. No point arguing with someone who does it in such bad faith.

ToRelax

Baphomet wrote: »

Thanks for the bumps, guys - so @ZoS 40k shield stacking - a feature or oversight?

40k might not be sustainable, but you can easily get 28k by two clicks and practically zero magicka.

If it's practically zero magicka you're spamming magicka damage on the Sorc, wich is simply stupid either way and the same for any Harness user. If you don't, you can forget the half shield.
Also, if it's indeed 28k, the Sorc used Dampen Magic instead of Harness Magicka most likely. That way it's cost is pretty high actually.

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Whats the difference between sorc shield stacking and stam dps roll dodgers?

Stam build eventually runs out ressource to dodge and do damage.

And the shield stacker runs out of resources by stacking shields and not doing damage.

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Not to mention:.I seem to almost never crit on shields.

That blew away my expectations.

Truewan wrote: »

Lets stay on topic here.

In my experience, the survivability, mobility, damage and utility of sorcs are overpowered in SOME situations.

I don't mind though, because every class should have a nook to fulfill in pvp, nightblades have fear and single target dps, dk's have whip and reflect and templars have... umm really bad self-heals and an average execute unless they are magicka users.

Sorcs have bolt escape and shields. I've seen a sorc use bolt escape 10 times before he stopped, and he only stopped because I chased him so far from my teammates... at which point he easily 1v1'd me.

The issue with Sorcs is that they have too much power to survive and it's too easy for them to escape. Give them one or another in terms of use them to survive. Either you take the shields or the bolt escape. - my suggestion.

PS his shield was 20k, I don't know how as I don't play a sorc. He was fully geared VR14... so... there's that to take into consideration.

Do you have any idea how much magicka 10 Bolt Escapes in a row will cost you?
And he surely didn't have a Hardened Ward of 20k unles he was emp.
Taking away either Bolt Escape or Conjured Ward will make the Sorc both unable to escape and unable to sustain himself in a fight. Please, play a Sorc yourself and you'll see.

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

11k on your hardened ward is still a lot for a damage build. I get 7.4k on my stamplar with his radiant ward. 9k if he got his tank build.

Hardened Ward gives you a 33% stronger shield.
You got a stronger shield for enemies around you and a lower cost.
Further your shield deals damage and the classes have different passives connected to their shield.
That is, you have a chance to deal extra damage when you hit someone with the shield while the sorc has 20% health regen when it's slotted.

Try again.

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Well you escape a losing situation(got ganked, ate an ult, ressources r low), come back after regen try again(idealy with a burst opening). Rince n repeat until you win.

Thats the real problem with streak.

If you got ganked by a competent player you are dead now.
You can not escape with Bolt Escape when your resources are low.

Also getting away and regen is pretty much the point of escaping, isn't it?
Tbh, the only skill I see that allows to get away with low resources is Shadow Image + Cloak.

Baragorath

I see many Sorcerers join debate.

Only miss one thing which was already used in other topic.

"If sorc can not kill you and he bolt escape means you should be happy and not follow him".

@ToRelax and @FriedEggSandwich I understand you defend your class against nerf, what was not done by Sypher which was adding every month some clips on youtube and begging @ZOS for DKs nerf and when it happened no more clips of Sypher DK on youtube.

Please allow other classes to show they point of view regarding class you play.

Eejit1331

I'll trade you my shield for reflect or green dragons blood or cloak or breath of life or radiant oppression. Who's willing trade what OP power for another OP power. I love the fact that every class has a unique power . Which of those listed would you trade for harden ward? Mine would be refelct for harden ward.

Baphomet

I appreciate the efforts, guys, but the 40k stacking mark has been reached, and the sustain to keep 28k+ shields up at all times is easy enough - you might not be able to do this personally, but many can.

There's no "talking your way out of this one", no matter how valiantly one tries ;-)

FriedEggSandwich

Baragorath wrote: »

I see many Sorcerers join debate.

Only miss one thing which was already used in other topic.

"If sorc can not kill you and he bolt escape means you should be happy and not follow him".

@ToRelax and @FriedEggSandwich I understand you defend your class against nerf, what was not done by Sypher which was adding every month some clips on youtube and begging @ZOS for DKs nerf and when it happened no more clips of Sypher DK on youtube.

Please allow other classes to show they point of view regarding class you play.

I will admit to being biased, how can I not be? But I pvp every day and see it how it is. I pvp'd a lot before 1.6 and remember how it was. PvP is imbalanced, I would have to be an idiot to deny that. Sorcs are strong in pvp, definitely stronger than they were, maybe too strong, but not the strongest. They weren't considered op in pvp pre-1.6. Lots changed globally about pvp in 1.6, but not much actually changed for the sorc class. This implies that what made sorcs strong were the global changes more than anything zos did to their class; things like removal of soft caps, removal of aoe caps, the re-introduction of crit damage into cyrodiil etc. But we also got nerfed during these global changes; spell resistance was taken away from light armour so that now all that light armour really offers are the passives, which are strong and make LA just about still worth wearing, thankfully.

All of these nerf sorc threads miss the point completely; sorcs don't need nerfing, they weren't actually buffed very much to begin with, rather the whole system needs rebalancing and fixing. There are still so many stupid bugs in the game that if were fixed people might feel a bit happier about all the classes. Changes I would make to balance the sorc class include; make crits go through wards, fix the cc immunity hardened ward gives against destructive clench, fix the stupid overload bug that allows for toggled buffs to remain, nerf overload damage/cost or make it cheap to block, reduce frags proc rate to something like 25-30%, make balls of lightening only absorb 1-2 projectiles, give everybody more hp, re-balance the champion system to make the diminishing returns harsher etc. There are so many changes that, in most cases, could be made without actually nerfing individual skills or whole classes.

I might be a sorc in a nerf sorc thread but if you were to look back at my previous posts on this forum (I don't suggest you do) you would see that I also defend NBs in the nerf NB threads, because I don't believe they're op either. People get annoyed when they die a lot, I get that, but people should put more effort into understanding how the whole system works and why that makes sorcs strong before they call for nerfs.

Tankqull

Baphomet wrote: »

I appreciate the efforts, guys, but the 40k stacking mark has been reached, and the sustain to keep 28k+ shields up at all times is easy enough - you might not be able to do this personally, but many can.

There's no "talking your way out of this one", no matter how valiantly one tries ;-)

and? the 25k+ wreckingblow mark has been reached too. blame the blody CP system not skills and classes them self.

eliisra

Baphomet wrote: »

I appreciate the efforts, guys, but the 40k stacking mark has been reached, and the sustain to keep 28k+ shields up at all times is easy enough - you might not be able to do this personally, but many can.

There's no "talking your way out of this one", no matter how valiantly one tries ;-)

You cant get a 40k shield unless you're in a group or raid. Need Barrier ultimate and stuff like Bone Shield or Magma Shell synergy and than your class shield on top.

Your average sorc only has Healing ward + Hardened Ward as shields absorbing all dmg. At best that gives them around 20k shield.

Annulment only protects against magicka dmg (while more than half the PvP population uses stamina builds).
Bone Shield self cast only protects against stamina dmg (find me a sorc with enough stamina to use it).

So half the time those 2 skills aren't actually shielding or absorbing anything. Cant really count them when measuring the shield size of a bunny-jumping blink spammer.

I'm not disagreeing that sorcs have to many advantages in PvP atm, but 40k shield, that's just ridiculous lol.

Lady_Mephala

Complain about sorcs and shields but nothing is never said about night blades because everybody and their brother is one. So here's my formal complaint on the cowardblades their ability to cloak while in combat and run like a coward from battle. The fact that they can snipe while remain hidden, also they have a move that drains ur magic and Stam in one shot,which, leaves you with your thumb you know where. Point blank nerf night blades and nerf the gd bow!!!

Francescolg

eliisra wrote: »

[Your average sorc only has Healing ward + Hardened Ward as shields absorbing all dmg. At best that gives them around 20k shield.
(...)
I'm not disagreeing that sorcs have to many advantages in PvP atm, but 40k shield, that's just ridiculous lol.

If the player is at very low life (~30%) Healing Ward goes up to 28k absorb/heal. You can simply test this and everybody knows this. Hardened Ward is up to 13k absorb (with an average ~200CP and the respective talent for shields maxed, average 2k spell dmg and 33k magicka, in easily obtainable gear).

That together is more than 40k absorb in a certain situation for a very short time. Since most (skilled) sorcerers use Healing Ward exactly because of it's very good battle usability, it is a problem for everybody who has no Money to afford the 'top dmg gear', otherwise Bow > Sorc, good NB > Sorc, etc..

Nonetheless a sorcerer can spam healing/hardened ward and each time he pops a shield he has a ~30% chance for an instant 'mucho dmg' Crystal Frag. If you combine that with (the old) Immovable and "speed song", you can not be CC'd. So when entering battle you always have 20k shields and 40k shields if in troubles, while beaming left and right and waiting for the Crystal Frag proc. Beside that, the list of goodies is much longer but you can read this in the numerous threads about the topic.

And, of course, who claims sorcerers were not powerful before 1.6, does not really play a sorc. No more words from me, because I don't want to get an admonition, which I would get otherwise. Next week, err, next month, or next year, we'll see the Patch 2.1 and everything will change again.