Stealth Detection potions.

Korlac49

I will make this short, sweet, and simple.
1. You make a class, that is complete garbage without having the advantage to dip in and out of stealth.
2. You put a potion, in this mmo that completely breaks the Nightblade class.
3. You give a stealth detection potion a 40+ second duration, and give the global cool down for potion use 45.

Dark Age of Camelot
Age of Conan
Warhammer
World of Warcraft
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ None of those, have stealth detection potions.

By putting a stealth detection potion in this game, you have completely destroyed 1, of the 4 sad classes that you managed to have.

Lets give some example of other potions shall we?

Potion of remove shields.
Potion of Bypass shield mitigation.

Get the picture?

But you go right on ahead and put new, fluffy mounts in the game, so that what time we are riding for 20 minutes at 60% speed + Rapid, we can look all cute.

Mind you, once we get to our destination, we will undoubtedly face a zerg of some sort. This zerg consisting of 30-40 people at which the majority are packing these class breaking potions.

Honestly, you not being able to become hidden 2-5 minutes AFTER you enter combat is bad enough for NB players. Not to mention the mages guild ability to detect hidden players, plus the alliance war flare ability.

What are you people thinking? I would love to know the logic behind putting these potions in this game.

I am sure at some point someone will say *NBs are OP* take it from someone that doesn't play one, you're not op, you're weak and thanks to ZoS, I can see you pretty much all the time. Just by hitting Q. So you just keep spamming roll dodge, because that is all you have. Until they come out with a (Potion of hit player no matter what they do to avoid it.) This post isn't to bash NBs its to try and enlighten ZoS to take class breaking items out of this mmo.

ScruffyWhiskers

I play a Khajiiti Magicka NB. Cloak would simply be ridiculous if it were not for the availability of a hard counter in the form of detection potions available to all. It's also a nice design decision as it forces players to make trade offs....pop the tri pot or the detect potion. Good game design is always forcing "interesting" or "tough" decisions on players. The pvp system actually manages to do a lot of that really well. That's why the 5 skill slot bar is so key.

I practically live in cloak. You learn to adapt to the players who run detect potions. It adds to the challenge. My biggest gripe is that besides the initial visual cue of the white rings when popped, there is no visual cue i.e. glow or icon that a player has a detection potion running. It would really be helpful to be able to see who can see me. But I can live without it. It definitely keeps you on your toes.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Oh look a thread where a nb is crying about cloak...what a surprise...plz buff nb's they re so underpowered. Remove detection pots so they can just dissapear in front of you without a counter....plz cry me a river.

Darkeus

i am nb and i think stealh detection potions are ok, what i hate... is that cloak last few sec and thats to low... should be increased to 7-10 sec.

Resipsa131

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Oh look a thread where a nb is crying about cloak...what a surprise...plz buff nb's they re so underpowered. Remove detection pots so they can just dissapear in front of you without a counter....plz cry me a river.

You'd still have AoE and Mage light

Vizier

The primary beef with detection potions isn't that they reveal NB from stealth. It's that they do so for 40 seconds. So in essence well equipped players can pretty much have detection up 90% of the time. It's a pretty affordable counter to NB and anyone else in stealth. IMO Cloak should pretty much trump all detection methods for the 2.9 seconds it's active.

I think detection potions pretty much need to go back to their pre 1.6 specifications. At best they should give an initial boost to detection such as they do now with a 20 ft radius but then give a minimal buff like 5 feet after a few seconds.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

They should add the Eye Animation, when a player uses a detection potion, like Sentinel NPCs have when you are disguised and they start suspecting you.

Turelus

As I Magicka Nightblade I have to agree that the potions are pretty crazy right now.

Back when the duriation was shorter it wasn't an issue, now I am not asking for a complete nerf to the potions or removal but I do feel 40 seconds of the ability to negate a single classes unique skills is not really in the best interest of the game.

Even dropped to 10 or 20 seconds the constant detection can still be given by raids willing to work together and cut through potions in an order.

Additionally these potions overshadow the new skill added to PVP skill lines for the purpose of stealth detection.

Turelus

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

They should add the Eye Animation, when a player uses a detection potion, like Sentinel NPCs have when you are disguise and start to suspecting you.

This is an awesome idea, I would love to see this. Maybe just have this shown over the entities which are breaking your stealth. So you know which enemies to move away from/kill.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

They should add the Eye Animation, when a player uses a detection potion, like Sentinel NPCs have when you are disguise and start to suspecting you.

This is an awesome idea, I would love to see this. Maybe just have this shown over the entities which are breaking your stealth. So you know which enemies to move away from/kill.

Yes, and this way you can adjust your playstyle and position yourself accordingly.

Uberkull

Little necro here. But I totally agree. A simple potion eliminates a classes major abilities entirely. Many of the NB burst damage come from stealth. Once out of stealth, if you didn't get the jump, you're toast against any good pvper.

In WoW, the Rogue had unlimited stealth, that's right...stay in stealth forever. Along with 'sap' which could incapacitate a enemy for up to 1 minute. The target couldn't do anything, you could totally take them out of the battle. Damage done would break Sap. Not to mention the major burst dos the class had attacking while stealth and the ability to Vanish which allows them to go back into perma stealth right in combat.
Following applies to Sap attack
Cannot be dodged, parried or blocked
Does not break stealth
The target cannot be in combat
Generates no threat
Does not engage target

Seem totally OP right? Well it wasn't. No detect pots, instead you simply countered this by using low cost aoe spells to reveal stealthed Rogues. Spam Aoe spells with a decent radius and you could break a rogue out of stealth and dot him, then attack.

Point here is, NB don't have 1/4 of the burst damage abilities of other classes in ESO if not in stealth. And still NB can be mitigated simply by a cheap potion.

Of course, we all know what we get into rolling a stam or mag NB, but a class shouldn't be gimped by a potion.

Malanor

40 seconds of det pots? Are you crazy? Learn about the det potions before creating stupid threads. They last abot 15 sec now due to you underpowered NBs were crying so hard.

So det pots are trash now if you are not faced with zerg. The last thing that det pot user loses possibility to use tri-pots when NBs can use it.

The others counter even worse. RMG - I am not gonna sacrifice 2 ability slots for that garbage. RF - is hard to grind in pvp for new char and still this ability is garbage. So we have to pray on the rng aoe detection that could be unfortunate.

Geez i hope either NBs will become less OP or counters will become valuable.

uberkull wrote: »

Seem totally OP right? Well it wasn't. No detect pots, instead you simply countered this by using low cost aoe spells to reveal stealthed Rogues. Spam Aoe spells with a decent radius and you could break a rogue out of stealth and dot him, then attack.

Point here is, NB don't have 1/4 of the burst damage abilities of other classes in ESO if not in stealth. And still NB can be mitigated simply by a cheap potion.

Of course, we all know what we get into rolling a stam or mag NB, but a class shouldn't be gimped by a potion.

Do you even know that now Rogues aint revealed by taking damage during Vanish?

Uberkull

Malanor wrote: »

Do you even know that now Rogues aint revealed by taking damage during Vanish?

Was always that way, not new.

Malanor

uberkull wrote: »

Was always that way, not new.

It actualy wasn't until MoP came out.

Winterpsy

I have no NB, but encountered dozens.
Most of the time they pop cloak I have no stealth detection ready, because of the cooldown.

Most of the time NBs can get away easily with their cloak. Most of the frustration that's voiced by guildies in the voice chat are about: a) NBs getting into stealth constantly, getting away b) Sorceres bolting left and right, getting away

NB going hidden is still a threat that works very often. Sometimes someone can pop a detect pot and you are screwed. But even during this, many NBs just use trees and rocks to break LOS and still can get away.

5 out of 10 detect pots are wasted away, because of skillfully stealth manouvering NBs.

Uberkull

Malanor wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Was always that way, not new.

It actualy wasn't until MoP came out.

Lol. Wrong. Vanish was like this since BC. Vanilla you had to use flash powder and it was breakable by damage.


Allows you to vanish from sight, entering an improved stealth mode for 3 sec. For the first 3 sec after vanishing, damage and harmful effects received will not break stealth. Also breaks movement impairing effects

Uberkull

Winterpsy wrote: »

I have no NB, but encountered dozens.
Most of the time they pop cloak I have no stealth detection ready, because of the cooldown.

Most of the time NBs can get away easily with their cloak. Most of the frustration that's voiced by guildies in the voice chat are about: a) NBs getting into stealth constantly, getting away b) Sorceres bolting left and right, getting away

NB going hidden is still a threat that works very often. Sometimes someone can pop a detect pot and you are screwed. But even during this, many NBs just use trees and rocks to break LOS and still can get away.

5 out of 10 detect pots are wasted away, because of skillfully stealth manouvering NBs.

Running away isn't killing you. If you are wasting your pots on a NB running away, well....

Bashev

uberkull wrote: »

Point here is, NB don't have 1/4 of the burst damage abilities of other classes in ESO if not in stealth. And still NB can be mitigated simply by a cheap potion.

Really? Give me a better spam class attack than surprise attack/concealed weapons?

Malanor

uberkull wrote: »

Lol. Wrong. Vanish was like this since BC. Vanilla you had to use flash powder and it was breakable by damage.


Allows you to vanish from sight, entering an improved stealth mode for 3 sec. For the first 3 sec after vanishing, damage and harmful effects received will not break stealth. Also breaks movement impairing effects

Nope, you are wrong; i carried out reserch so vanish doesn't by damage break only since cata exactly, not MoP since i clearly remeber that pro rogues had to use vanish between dot's ticks to stab cheapshot during LK.

bowmanz607

Malanor wrote: »

40 seconds of det pots? Are you crazy? Learn about the det potions before creating stupid threads. They last abot 15 sec now due to you underpowered NBs were crying so hard.

So det pots are trash now if you are not faced with zerg. The last thing that det pot user loses possibility to use tri-pots when NBs can use it.

The others counter even worse. RMG - I am not gonna sacrifice 2 ability slots for that garbage. RF - is hard to grind in pvp for new char and still this ability is garbage. So we have to pray on the rng aoe detection that could be unfortunate.

Geez i hope either NBs will become less OP or counters will become valuable.

uberkull wrote: »

Seem totally OP right? Well it wasn't. No detect pots, instead you simply countered this by using low cost aoe spells to reveal stealthed Rogues. Spam Aoe spells with a decent radius and you could break a rogue out of stealth and dot him, then attack.

Point here is, NB don't have 1/4 of the burst damage abilities of other classes in ESO if not in stealth. And still NB can be mitigated simply by a cheap potion.

Of course, we all know what we get into rolling a stam or mag NB, but a class shouldn't be gimped by a potion.

Do you even know that now Rogues aint revealed by taking damage during Vanish?

look at the date of thread. it was before nerf to potions. this thread was brought back for some odd reason. at the time it was created the numbers were right.

imredneckson

Korlac49 wrote: »

I will make this short, sweet, and simple.
1. You make a class, that is complete garbage without having the advantage to dip in and out of stealth.
2. You put a potion, in this mmo that completely breaks the Nightblade class.
3. You give a stealth detection potion a 40+ second duration, and give the global cool down for potion use 45.

Dark Age of Camelot
Age of Conan
Warhammer
World of Warcraft
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ None of those, have stealth detection potions.

By putting a stealth detection potion in this game, you have completely destroyed 1, of the 4 sad classes that you managed to have.

Lets give some example of other potions shall we?

Potion of remove shields.
Potion of Bypass shield mitigation.

Get the picture?

But you go right on ahead and put new, fluffy mounts in the game, so that what time we are riding for 20 minutes at 60% speed + Rapid, we can look all cute.

Mind you, once we get to our destination, we will undoubtedly face a zerg of some sort. This zerg consisting of 30-40 people at which the majority are packing these class breaking potions.

Honestly, you not being able to become hidden 2-5 minutes AFTER you enter combat is bad enough for NB players. Not to mention the mages guild ability to detect hidden players, plus the alliance war flare ability.

What are you people thinking? I would love to know the logic behind putting these potions in this game.

I am sure at some point someone will say *NBs are OP* take it from someone that doesn't play one, you're not op, you're weak and thanks to ZoS, I can see you pretty much all the time. Just by hitting Q. So you just keep spamming roll dodge, because that is all you have. Until they come out with a (Potion of hit player no matter what they do to avoid it.) This post isn't to bash NBs its to try and enlighten ZoS to take class breaking items out of this mmo.

Detect pots are great for also finding players who are hidden not just NBs. I like them and yes I play NB on occasion I say keep them in

Tholian1

imredneckson wrote: »

Korlac49 wrote: »

I will make this short, sweet, and simple.
1. You make a class, that is complete garbage without having the advantage to dip in and out of stealth.
2. You put a potion, in this mmo that completely breaks the Nightblade class.
3. You give a stealth detection potion a 40+ second duration, and give the global cool down for potion use 45.

Dark Age of Camelot
Age of Conan
Warhammer
World of Warcraft
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ None of those, have stealth detection potions.

By putting a stealth detection potion in this game, you have completely destroyed 1, of the 4 sad classes that you managed to have.

Lets give some example of other potions shall we?

Potion of remove shields.
Potion of Bypass shield mitigation.

Get the picture?

But you go right on ahead and put new, fluffy mounts in the game, so that what time we are riding for 20 minutes at 60% speed + Rapid, we can look all cute.

Mind you, once we get to our destination, we will undoubtedly face a zerg of some sort. This zerg consisting of 30-40 people at which the majority are packing these class breaking potions.

Honestly, you not being able to become hidden 2-5 minutes AFTER you enter combat is bad enough for NB players. Not to mention the mages guild ability to detect hidden players, plus the alliance war flare ability.

What are you people thinking? I would love to know the logic behind putting these potions in this game.

I am sure at some point someone will say *NBs are OP* take it from someone that doesn't play one, you're not op, you're weak and thanks to ZoS, I can see you pretty much all the time. Just by hitting Q. So you just keep spamming roll dodge, because that is all you have. Until they come out with a (Potion of hit player no matter what they do to avoid it.) This post isn't to bash NBs its to try and enlighten ZoS to take class breaking items out of this mmo.

Detect pots are great for also finding players who are hidden not just NBs. I like them and yes I play NB on occasion I say keep them in

I'm a NB that keeps a supply of detect pots on hand as well.

Uberkull

Malanor wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Lol. Wrong. Vanish was like this since BC. Vanilla you had to use flash powder and it was breakable by damage.


Allows you to vanish from sight, entering an improved stealth mode for 3 sec. For the first 3 sec after vanishing, damage and harmful effects received will not break stealth. Also breaks movement impairing effects

Nope, you are wrong; i carried out reserch so vanish doesn't by damage break only since cata exactly, not MoP since i clearly remeber that pro rogues had to use vanish between dot's ticks to stab cheapshot during LK.

You didn't do your research well then...lol. First you said MOP, now you went back to the third xpac, Cata. Keep trying though. It was in BC, 2006.