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Pay To Win, or a Convenience?
-
I can grind day job and other responsibility as a family man. There, i've said it. Go figure.Dum Spiro Spero0 -
demendred✭✭✭✭It's not pay to win, its pay to whine.
Buy the game, complain about meaningless stuff. Everyone wins!All good Nords goto Sto'Vo'Kor.0 -
Squishs✭✭The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pay to win means you must pay to get said item. If you dont have to pay for it then its not pay to win. The pots are not only in game but so common they went from 50k each to less than 5k each in less than two weeks. I imagine they will become even cheaper as time progresses.0 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hey guys keep spending that money on it, I do NOT care if it P2W, P2Whatever keep spending the money. Buy a hundred, buy a thousand. Spend that money, we need to fix these bugs.Edited by BigM on June 20, 2015 2:41PM“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
Would vote you for next cyro thrones.
Dum Spiro Spero0 -
Soulharvester✭✭✭What's everyone's feeling about the new Crown Experience Scroll. Is an XP booster sold for real money pay-to-win, or is it just a convenience?
ESO Is Now Selling Experience Boosters In The Cash Shop
/rant
The second you take a digital item from the game, which is difficult in itself to produce. A new player is not going to pay 25k for a stupid single bottle of xp potion.
I know veteran players fishing and doing writs, trying to get the recipe or sell the xp potions. Thats fine with me, but keep it in game Zeni.
Another side exist in this debate, the players in game spending all that time to make those potions and put up for sale and then what happens? Crown store has em!? Its P2W and a nice slap in the face to the people making these potions.
A solution, simple, take the stupid out of making these potions so its not a impossible feat for most players. This way you have a balance.
Right now, it is not balanced and the average player is going to look at the meager gold they have, thanks to the unbalanced fees associated with armor repair, bank, inventory slots, the idiot respec costs, im sure I am missing more but you get the idea.
Its pretty simple concept, fluff items belong in the store. Quality content is what we want. Keep our recipe items in game please. Pretty sure most of us can think of at least a 1000 different things to go into that store that is fluff and people might actually buy.
/rant
0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.Edited by DDuke on June 20, 2015 3:37PM2 -
IrishRonD✭✭✭P2W? Really?!?! Leveling up quickly is P2W?!?!
I feel this game levels toons too quickly. My toons' levels have always been higher than the zones they were supposed to be in. Then again, I do not rush through a zone to get to the other side.
Anyway, what is one "winning" when one levels more quickly? It would seem to me that they would be losing the opportunity for a challenging game.1 -
RobDaCool✭✭✭I looked for the X boosters and cound't find 'em, I'm either blind or its not on the Xbox One yet lolPS4 NA -RobdacoolV20 -
Talcon✭✭✭PLEASE GO PAY TO WIN
Then I can just spend money and not have to actually do *** in the game, so much nicer that way.Edited by Talcon on June 20, 2015 4:56PM0 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭ZylnorWrath_ESO wrote: »i never understood how people can compare exp boost to p2w. with an exp boost you are not overpowered in any way shape or form, you still need to work in order to use the boost. its not something like an automatic level up/skill points, or an item that gives you godlike stats. those are definitions of p2w which i have yet to see in this game!
If it wasn't for CPs this would be true.Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%~
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.Edited by DDuke on June 21, 2015 12:17AM1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.
And that's just an argument from ignorance.
Go ahead and prove me wrong if you think I'm "making up" these numbers.
Go deal 20k single target DPS on Manticora with 200 CPs and report back (then do the same with 300 CPs), rather than trying to dismiss something as "lies" because they prove you wrong (once again).Edited by DDuke on June 21, 2015 12:40AM0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.
And that's just an argument from ignorance.
Go ahead and prove me wrong if you think I'm "making up" these numbers.
Go deal 20k single target DPS on Manticora with 200 CPs and report back (then do the same with 300 CPs), rather than trying to dismiss something as "lies" because they prove you wrong (once again).
I dont have to prove you wrong. You made the claim. Yet you have absolutely nothing to backup said claim. You cant make a claim and say "prove me wrong". You have to prove your claim. You just saying it doesnt make it fact. Especially since you show a great bias and would do anything to "prove" your point. Even make up numbers.0 -
Dru1076✭✭✭✭they have been very careful bringing these in. By making it far easier for established players to obtain these recipe fragments and next to impossible for new or casual players they keep the hardcore player base happy, so it is only th minority of players I guess that see this as an issue. Anyone playing since launch probably has several high level characters turning in four or more writs every day. How could anyone in that position see anything wrong with this? We truly must look like whiners to someone who already has three or four recipe fragments learned, or someone who has made a million selling them.
For the main player base this is not play to win. For new arrivals and people like myself who can't play often enough to have a small army of alts, this is "pay to slow the gap growth", because by the time I gather all fragments with one character (I can't afford to buy one fragment let alone all of them) it will much too late for it to matter.
But then....this has made me realise that I am a casual player. And I still have plenty to do without PvP. And seeing that I am not playing PvP I no longer need to build a character for that, as I have been trying to do, so not only do I not these boosters I don't need a 10% boost either. My 80 something champion points will serve me well enough in PVE, and it will make little difference how slowly they come from now on.Ask not what your sweetroll can do for you....0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.
And that's just an argument from ignorance.
Go ahead and prove me wrong if you think I'm "making up" these numbers.
Go deal 20k single target DPS on Manticora with 200 CPs and report back (then do the same with 300 CPs), rather than trying to dismiss something as "lies" because they prove you wrong (once again).
I dont have to prove you wrong. You made the claim. Yet you have absolutely nothing to backup said claim. You cant make a claim and say "prove me wrong". You have to prove your claim. You just saying it doesnt make it fact. Especially since you show a great bias and would do anything to "prove" your point. Even make up numbers.
Well, if you can't take my word for it, go ahead and ask any of the top players whom you find on leaderboards.
Ask them how their DPS was with 200 CPs, and how it is now (as most are between 300-400).
Or you know, just keep being ignorant, it's up to you.
Of course when you get your answer, you will claim they are lying as well, so I don't really see the point of any of this.
I'm sorry I can't find (fabricated of course
) screenshots of dmg meters back from 1-2 months ago to compare them with present ones. Edited by DDuke on June 21, 2015 1:02AM0 -
Alp2760✭✭Well they use the excuse they work too much, don't have time to play with RL issues, so they open the wallets and rush to end. Tell people they beat the game when in reality they did nothing and have no clue how game works. Others that ask them about the game end up not buying it because he says it was super easy.
Weird but unfortunately all true!
I've played a lot of games and paid for extras/conveniences etc in a fair amount plus know and played with a lot of people who have done the same. It's never once meant I've skipped the game.
I have never experienced, or known anyone to do what you have described. Yes I work, yes I have a family and so do many of the people I know.
This leads me to believe that you are fabricatimg the example in your post, only to stress/enhance your statement. This I'm turn makes your statement absolute nonsense.
Please give examples of people doing as you describe because otherwise, you have just wanted to make a point and created make belief examples to try and validate what you said.
I could just as easily say that all the people who have beat the game only did so using YouTube videos and guides, whilst having hours and hours to play because they don't have jobs. They don't understand the game, they have just used every guide/tutorial to find where everything is and the best way to grind.
But that would be nonsense as well. Really wish people would use common sense and rational thought to discuss things instead of exaggerating or making things up that suit their own agenda, it is really tiresome.
Your last sentence in particular is absurd, I have never in all my years of playing and interacting with others heard someone so they aren't buying a game because it is too easy, as a result of someone else literally paying to skip everything.. Stop making stuff up. If you have such an issue with a game model, play a different game. Simple.
1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.
And that's just an argument from ignorance.
Go ahead and prove me wrong if you think I'm "making up" these numbers.
Go deal 20k single target DPS on Manticora with 200 CPs and report back (then do the same with 300 CPs), rather than trying to dismiss something as "lies" because they prove you wrong (once again).
I dont have to prove you wrong. You made the claim. Yet you have absolutely nothing to backup said claim. You cant make a claim and say "prove me wrong". You have to prove your claim. You just saying it doesnt make it fact. Especially since you show a great bias and would do anything to "prove" your point. Even make up numbers.
Well, if you can't take my word for it, go ahead and ask any of the top players whom you find on leaderboards.
Ask them how their DPS was with 200 CPs, and how it is now (as most are between 300-400).
Or you know, just keep being ignorant, it's up to you.
Of course when you get your answer, you will claim they are lying as well, so I don't really see the point of any of this.
I'm sorry I can't find (fabricated of course ) screenshots of dmg meters back from 1-2 months ago to compare them with present ones.
The fact is what you are saying simply isnt true. There is nothing you can get with CP that will up your dps 20-30% over someone the same level with the same equipment, same skill level, same rotation etc.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.
And that's just an argument from ignorance.
Go ahead and prove me wrong if you think I'm "making up" these numbers.
Go deal 20k single target DPS on Manticora with 200 CPs and report back (then do the same with 300 CPs), rather than trying to dismiss something as "lies" because they prove you wrong (once again).
I dont have to prove you wrong. You made the claim. Yet you have absolutely nothing to backup said claim. You cant make a claim and say "prove me wrong". You have to prove your claim. You just saying it doesnt make it fact. Especially since you show a great bias and would do anything to "prove" your point. Even make up numbers.
Well, if you can't take my word for it, go ahead and ask any of the top players whom you find on leaderboards.
Ask them how their DPS was with 200 CPs, and how it is now (as most are between 300-400).
Or you know, just keep being ignorant, it's up to you.
Of course when you get your answer, you will claim they are lying as well, so I don't really see the point of any of this.
I'm sorry I can't find (fabricated of course ) screenshots of dmg meters back from 1-2 months ago to compare them with present ones.
The fact is what you are saying simply isnt true. There is nothing you can get with CP that will up your dps 20-30% over someone the same level with the same equipment, same skill level, same rotation etc.
Difference between 200 & 300 CPs in numbers:
24.5% (300) - 17.9% (200) = 6.6% Physical Damage (Mighty)
Exploiter Passive - +10% Damage on Off Balanced targets
11.7% (300) - 7.1% (200) = 4.6% Cost Reduction (Warlord)
8.4% (300) - 5.6% (200) = 2.8% less DoT Damage taken (Thick Skinned)
9.2% (300) - 5.7% (200) = 3.5% less Magick/Poison/Disease Damage taken (Hardy)
9.2% (300) - 5.7% (200) = 3.5% less Fire/Frost/Lightning Damage taken (Elemental Defender)
+
Between 800-1k Health, Magicka & Stamina
It all adds up, especially passives like Warlord which allow you to change Cost Reduction enchants to Weapon Damage ones.
So scream all you want, but it's true and you are once again wrong (per usual).
Oh, and just to make it clear, the difference grows bigger & bigger the more Champion Points you get. Here's another 50% difference, this time 750 vs 500:
25% (750) - 14.5% (500) = 10.5% Light/Heavy Attack Damage (Any of the Atronach passives)
Butcher Passive - +5% Light/Heavy Attack damage on low health targets
Tactician Passive - Enemies set Off Balance when you roll dodge their attack
+5% (750) Healing Initiated
25% (750) - 12.2% (500) = 12.8% Stamina Recovery (Mooncalf)
+6% Resources from Heavy Attacks (750) (Tenacity)
Windrunning Passive - +2% Movement Speed & +10% magicka & health regeneration while sprinting
25% (750) - 9.7% (500) = 15.3% Spell Resistance (Spell Shield)
Reinforced Passive - Around 1-2k Damage Shield every time you block (every 10 seconds)
4% More Healing Received (750) (Quick Recovery)
Field Physician Passive - 15% Less Damage Taken while resurrecting someoneEdited by DDuke on June 21, 2015 2:44AM1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.
And that's just an argument from ignorance.
Go ahead and prove me wrong if you think I'm "making up" these numbers.
Go deal 20k single target DPS on Manticora with 200 CPs and report back (then do the same with 300 CPs), rather than trying to dismiss something as "lies" because they prove you wrong (once again).
I dont have to prove you wrong. You made the claim. Yet you have absolutely nothing to backup said claim. You cant make a claim and say "prove me wrong". You have to prove your claim. You just saying it doesnt make it fact. Especially since you show a great bias and would do anything to "prove" your point. Even make up numbers.
Well, if you can't take my word for it, go ahead and ask any of the top players whom you find on leaderboards.
Ask them how their DPS was with 200 CPs, and how it is now (as most are between 300-400).
Or you know, just keep being ignorant, it's up to you.
Of course when you get your answer, you will claim they are lying as well, so I don't really see the point of any of this.
I'm sorry I can't find (fabricated of course ) screenshots of dmg meters back from 1-2 months ago to compare them with present ones.
The fact is what you are saying simply isnt true. There is nothing you can get with CP that will up your dps 20-30% over someone the same level with the same equipment, same skill level, same rotation etc.
Difference between 200 & 300 CPs in numbers:
24.5% (300) - 17.9% (200) = 6.6% Physical Damage (Mighty)
Exploiter Passive - +10% Damage on Off Balanced targets
11.7% (300) - 7.1% (200) = 4.6% Cost Reduction (Warlord)
8.4% (300) - 5.6% (200) = 2.8% less DoT Damage taken (Thick Skinned)
9.2% (300) - 5.7% (200) = 3.5% less Magick/Poison/Disease Damage taken (Hardy)
9.2% (300) - 5.7% (200) = 3.5% less Fire/Frost/Lightning Damage taken (Elemental Defender)
+
Between 800-1k Health, Magicka & Stamina
It all adds up, especially passives like Warlord which allow you to change Cost Reduction enchants to Weapon Damage ones.
So scream all you want, but it's true and you are once again wrong (per usual).
lol ya 2 and 3% is game breaking. Then you wonder why noone takes you seriously.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »
As it stands now, @DDuke is better at presenting his arguments than you are.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »The Champion system needs to be resolved, as mentioned in the podcast from the last ESO weekly, if this experience bonus is gonna cover champion points.
What's gonna stop people from getting ridiculously high stat advantages, what would even be the point of attempting to join the game as a newcomer or a returning player? make it seasonal.
Champion points are like leveling. The stuff you REALLY need like gear, skill points and the ability to play your character cannot be purchased. Skills must be leveled. Also champ points do not give any kind of massive advantage anyways. 90% of the stuff you put points into doesnt do a thing to make you more powerful. More loot in chests? Ability to pick locks faster? How do those make you more powerful in pvp or competitive pve? Answer is they dont.
Champ points mean little to nothing without skills. Skills you need to earn and learn. So all this chicken littling is for naught. Every game there is the period where you level up and learn. There will ALWAYS be a gap between people who play all the time and casuals.
As usual, a certain person with no idea how the game works pops in and feels like sharing his thoughts.
The difference between 200 & 300 Champion Points alone is about 20-30% in DPS, along with passives such as Exploiter (+10% dmg on off-balance targets) for added burst damage.
Later on, you've got things such as Retaliation for +30% nuke after blocking a heavy attack, or Riposte for 15% chance of dealing 5k dmg when blocking, which are huge boosts in PvP.
These, along with all the passives where you put points into which increase your DPS significantly (up to 25% with Mighty, Precise Strikes & Piercing increasing it by another average of 30%~), after which you can still increase your burst damage with Weapon Expert passives in Ritual (making a Dual Wield heavy attack deal more damage than a Wrecking Blow for instance).
This all, without even accounting for the health/stamina/magicka granted by each point you spend (I think it was +20/stat for each point spent).
Are you still going to say Champion Points dont give a massive advantage? They actually give more of an advantage than any gear I've seen in other MMOs could grant.
The only thing you've said which makes sense is that there will always be a gap between casuals & hardcore gamers.
But is there a need to make this gap even wider, by giving around XP boosts to people with tons of gold or $$$ (hardcore gamers) and forcing casuals to pay $$$ for them in order to even stay relevant?
These are obviously not for "catching up", every competitive gamer I know in game is using the crafted ones (or in some cases the Cash Shop version). If anything, "catching up" just became even more difficult for casual gamer.
That sounds very much like a concept that's going to backfire, badly.
You are wrong. There is no 20-30% dps difference. I have been playing this game as you can see by my name before it even came out. Champ points do not give any kind of "massive" advantage. You are just making up numbers with no actual facts behind your statements.
Well if you arent worried about pesky little things like fact then yes I guess you are right.
The average DPS with 200 points was 15k. The average DPS with 300-400 points is 19-20k.
Difference: 25%+
Fact.
Source: personal experience, doing trials in one of the top guilds in the world & observing.
So you make up some numbers and they must be accepted as fact. Even tho you show a great bias. I got it.
And that's just an argument from ignorance.
Go ahead and prove me wrong if you think I'm "making up" these numbers.
Go deal 20k single target DPS on Manticora with 200 CPs and report back (then do the same with 300 CPs), rather than trying to dismiss something as "lies" because they prove you wrong (once again).
I dont have to prove you wrong. You made the claim. Yet you have absolutely nothing to backup said claim. You cant make a claim and say "prove me wrong". You have to prove your claim. You just saying it doesnt make it fact. Especially since you show a great bias and would do anything to "prove" your point. Even make up numbers.
Well, if you can't take my word for it, go ahead and ask any of the top players whom you find on leaderboards.
Ask them how their DPS was with 200 CPs, and how it is now (as most are between 300-400).
Or you know, just keep being ignorant, it's up to you.
Of course when you get your answer, you will claim they are lying as well, so I don't really see the point of any of this.
I'm sorry I can't find (fabricated of course ) screenshots of dmg meters back from 1-2 months ago to compare them with present ones.
The fact is what you are saying simply isnt true. There is nothing you can get with CP that will up your dps 20-30% over someone the same level with the same equipment, same skill level, same rotation etc.
Difference between 200 & 300 CPs in numbers:
24.5% (300) - 17.9% (200) = 6.6% Physical Damage (Mighty)
Exploiter Passive - +10% Damage on Off Balanced targets
11.7% (300) - 7.1% (200) = 4.6% Cost Reduction (Warlord)
8.4% (300) - 5.6% (200) = 2.8% less DoT Damage taken (Thick Skinned)
9.2% (300) - 5.7% (200) = 3.5% less Magick/Poison/Disease Damage taken (Hardy)
9.2% (300) - 5.7% (200) = 3.5% less Fire/Frost/Lightning Damage taken (Elemental Defender)
+
Between 800-1k Health, Magicka & Stamina
It all adds up, especially passives like Warlord which allow you to change Cost Reduction enchants to Weapon Damage ones.
So scream all you want, but it's true and you are once again wrong (per usual).
lol ya 2 and 3% is game breaking. Then you wonder why noone takes you seriously.
6.6% flat damage from Mighty (already more than "2 and 3%"), 10% on Off Balance targets (everyone in PvP), 4.6% Cost Reduction = one or two weapon damage jewelry enchantments in value, meaning another 10-12% damage, 1k stamina for another 3%...
You should really research the game you're playing more before arguing.
Oh, and added another 50% comparison (this time 750 vs 500), which is going to be around 40-50% difference in DPS by my estimations.Edited by DDuke on June 21, 2015 2:50AM1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lol none of that is going to give you no 50% dps increase. Im done man you keep fighting the good fight tho
You will convince them! 0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So many different opinions on pay to win. Should I be able to buy a v14 of any class, faction, and race that would be pay to win in my opinion.
Allowing to buy time saving features opens the door to hell. Almost everybody would agree that directly buying a fully decked out character would be wrong, but there is no difference in quality compared to other time saving features, it's merely the scale.
If you are, in principle, fine with circumventing gameplay for cash to reach the same goal as somebody who actually played the game, there is no logical argument why something like riding lessons should be allowed but instant level-ups for my character or even specific gear should not. It becomes a matter of personal taste and sensibilities where to draw the line, but there is no logic in it.
People often understand P2W as having to pay to win, when that is not how most F2P games operate. A game is already compromised when you can pay to win.
In its essence, this is what I understand as winning in games: Overcoming obstacles in advancement in accordance with the rules of the game. Without an obstacle, there is no gameplay. When I complete a row in Tetris by butting my pieces in order, I can advance. When I shoot an enemy in the head in an FPS, I can advance. When I level my character to get stronger in an RPG, I can advance. Anything that circumvents the obstacle for cash is paying to win. And that's what cash shops for MMOs do.
The reason this does not upset most modern gamers is because they see MMOs like some type of multiplayer FPS where progression is merely a nuisance to get to the "endgame". Well, in my opinion, they should **** off to those games and leave our genre alone.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0
