Upcoming Combat and Effect API Changes

Apokh

"My dear mister singing club, [snip] the wall on!"
as we would say in Germany

Very cool news from my point of view, this also opens doors for much more complex boss/mob mechanics *wohoo*. Thank you guys

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Enodoc wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The official scrolling combat text and buff/debuff tracking options will come after these API changes land

Have they actually said they're going to do that? Because that would be great

Not sure, but since @ZOS_ChipHilseberg says :

ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote: »

In patch 1.7 we will be testing some changes to the rules that control which combat events and effects (buffs/debuffs) are communicated to addons.

So not sure about the ZOS development on the UI, but reading this I'll take it for granted the API change is implemented next patch, so addons can use it.

Well yes, absolutely, that's what this thread is about. But my question was specifically about ZOS' possible intentions to make it part of the base UI.

I actually spent some of my bosses money (aka work time) to find the source it's from the xb1 AMA on reddit a few days ago:

We have begun exploring ways to integrate floating combat text and buff/debuffs within the HUD in a way that still keeps the spirit of the UI minimal. There's several challenges with both of these. We'd like to make sure that the combat text feels satisfying and there's some effort involved there when it comes to the aesthetics of it, the accuracy/data setup, and overall iteration on it. With the buff/debuff feedback, many of our effects are not as long term as other games so we're looking into ways to give this feedback while also not making the HUD appear like a blinking casino machine. But both of these are things we have been exploring internally.

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/39gv5r/the_elder_scroll_online_tamriel_unlimited_team/cs384dr

Enodoc

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The official scrolling combat text and buff/debuff tracking options will come after these API changes land

Have they actually said they're going to do that? Because that would be great

Not sure, but since @ZOS_ChipHilseberg says :

ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote: »

In patch 1.7 we will be testing some changes to the rules that control which combat events and effects (buffs/debuffs) are communicated to addons.

So not sure about the ZOS development on the UI, but reading this I'll take it for granted the API change is implemented next patch, so addons can use it.

Well yes, absolutely, that's what this thread is about. But my question was specifically about ZOS' possible intentions to make it part of the base UI.

I actually spent some of my bosses money (aka work time) to find the source it's from the xb1 AMA on reddit a few days ago:

We have begun exploring ways to integrate floating combat text and buff/debuffs within the HUD in a way that still keeps the spirit of the UI minimal. There's several challenges with both of these. We'd like to make sure that the combat text feels satisfying and there's some effort involved there when it comes to the aesthetics of it, the accuracy/data setup, and overall iteration on it. With the buff/debuff feedback, many of our effects are not as long term as other games so we're looking into ways to give this feedback while also not making the HUD appear like a blinking casino machine. But both of these are things we have been exploring internally.

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/39gv5r/the_elder_scroll_online_tamriel_unlimited_team/cs384dr

Ah that's great, thanks!

Sacadon

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg how much does this increase client-server network traffic? Or was the data being passed already and now it's accessible. Just curious to know that this is not going to exacerbate existing AoE performance issues (namely Cyrodiil).

The changes sound great and hope that ZOS has fixed that shield bug too.

Elsonso

Enodoc wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The official scrolling combat text and buff/debuff tracking options will come after these API changes land

Have they actually said they're going to do that? Because that would be great

I have not seen anything that guarantees this, other than the standard "we would like to do it" statements. Perhaps @Attorneyatlawl can elaborate.

I think that this will set a very wide minimum bar for the game. Since this will provide more information than the stock UI provides, and it will be more widely applicable outside of the min/max and FTC users, my thought is that they should incorporate a similar function into both PC and console. Add-ons should be needed to customize this info, not display it.

ZOS_ChipHilseberg

Sacadon wrote: »

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg how much does this increase client-server network traffic? Or was the data being passed already and now it's accessible. Just curious to know that this is not going to exacerbate existing AoE performance issues (namely Cyrodiil).

The changes sound great and hope that ZOS has fixed that shield bug too.

It does not increase network traffic at all.

If you are talking about the shield bug where it would become stuck if you had two shields on you at the same time then yes, that is fixed, and it will be in the next patch.

Dagoth_Rac

lordrichter wrote: »

Very cool news from my point of view, this also opens doors for much more complex boss/mob mechanics *wohoo*. Thank you guys

Hmm. While I think it is great that they are making this info available in the API for those who want to use it, I am not sure having boss mechanics based around this info is a good idea. I use plenty of addons at all times so I am no purist, but I don't want that to be a requirement for all players, not even all serious endgame players. You can completely turn off the UI and still complete Sanctum Ophidia, based purely on visual and audio "tells" from the game. You will probably have wanted to run addons at some point to test DPS and HPS and things like that. You are simply not going to be competitive in endgame content without a good idea of your character's performance numbers. But once you use that to tweak your build, I have no problem with people disabling most or all of the UI and I think that should always be a workable option. So boss mechanics that require paying attention to a plethora of overlaid UI elements and indicators? No thanks.

Sacadon

ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg how much does this increase client-server network traffic? Or was the data being passed already and now it's accessible. Just curious to know that this is not going to exacerbate existing AoE performance issues (namely Cyrodiil).

The changes sound great and hope that ZOS has fixed that shield bug too.

It does not increase network traffic at all.

If you are talking about the shield bug where it would become stuck if you had two shields on you at the same time then yes, that is fixed, and it will be in the next patch.

Awesome thx

Attorneyatlawl

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The official scrolling combat text and buff/debuff tracking options will come after these API changes land

Have they actually said they're going to do that? Because that would be great

I have not seen anything that guarantees this, other than the standard "we would like to do it" statements. Perhaps @Attorneyatlawl can elaborate.

I think that this will set a very wide minimum bar for the game. Since this will provide more information than the stock UI provides, and it will be more widely applicable outside of the min/max and FTC users, my thought is that they should incorporate a similar function into both PC and console. Add-ons should be needed to customize this info, not display it.

I don't claim things were said in absolutes like that without it being true... what would be the point of that? Here's the link for you :
http://www.esoui.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21635&postcount=5
"Q: Is this [default buff and damage tracking] still a current development goal?
A: Yes. These API changes have been in testing for a while internally and do not reflect a change in the goals the Chris stated in the AMA."

"Q: Would such systems be shared between PC and Console? I ask because several other interface enhancements are thus-far console specific.
A: We would like to provide these features for both platforms."

The info's been readily available since this thread came up so I figured it was common knowledge, so I hadn't thought of even linking it originally. This should clear the air though. Luckily for him you replied, because I don't otherwise usually care enough to respond when someone's main statement is a random gif found on google from futurama.

Yes, I am a meme hater .

Attorneyatlawl

Sacadon wrote: »

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg how much does this increase client-server network traffic? Or was the data being passed already and now it's accessible. Just curious to know that this is not going to exacerbate existing AoE performance issues (namely Cyrodiil).

The changes sound great and hope that ZOS has fixed that shield bug too.

It already was being passed, but blocked off in game to addons, and not displayed by any ZOS created user interface widgets.

Sacadon

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg how much does this increase client-server network traffic? Or was the data being passed already and now it's accessible. Just curious to know that this is not going to exacerbate existing AoE performance issues (namely Cyrodiil).

The changes sound great and hope that ZOS has fixed that shield bug too.

It already was being passed, but blocked off in game to addons, and not displayed by any ZOS created user interface widgets.

Figured as much, but had to ask still... Was imagining endless threads on how ZOS introduced more lag and hoping to avoid more of that fun.

Attorneyatlawl

Sacadon wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sacadon wrote: »

@ZOS_ChipHilseberg how much does this increase client-server network traffic? Or was the data being passed already and now it's accessible. Just curious to know that this is not going to exacerbate existing AoE performance issues (namely Cyrodiil).

The changes sound great and hope that ZOS has fixed that shield bug too.

It already was being passed, but blocked off in game to addons, and not displayed by any ZOS created user interface widgets.

Figured as much, but had to ask still... Was imagining endless threads on how ZOS introduced more lag and hoping to avoid more of that fun.

Fair enough question . Just figured I'd drop a bit of extra info on it.

danno8

Do any of you authors out there think it will be possible to have localized floaters over the heads of multiple mobs with these changes?

Blackhorne

lordrichter wrote: »

So, does this mean that addons are now required to win?

No, it doesn't.

Attorneyatlawl

danno8 wrote: »

Do any of you authors out there think it will be possible to have localized floaters over the heads of multiple mobs with these changes?

No, it won't be, pending other further changes. Assigning UI widgets to 3d world space instead of just on-screen as a flat surface (to put it in plain English) isn't currently allowed, and is the same functionality domain that nameplates/guildtags/etc. would need/use should they be implemented officially at some point (hopefully!). Even if/when they do implement those, however, they may very likely not allow for addons to hook into those functions for good reason (painting targets, drawing circles on the ground for groupmates, and keeping track of targets automatically by type of thing they're doing with nice round hit markers that aren't blocked by terrain or objects visually, among other issues that can arise with that level of openness allowed... World of Wombats ran into that issue at one point I believe with their addons , triggering enough of a backlash that it was removed and prohibited).

infraction2008b16_ESO

glak wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

But guys, you can't have on-screen buff timers because immersion and elder scrolls tradition and stuff!

If you want immersion, play on console.

I wouldn't feel as immersed being locked to 1080p and 30 fps with worse overall graphics as well with the inability to use tools such as sweetfx.

Sasky

danno8 wrote: »

Do any of you authors out there think it will be possible to have localized floaters over the heads of multiple mobs with these changes?

The closest that could happen would be essentially a compass for which direction the players are. If you remember back near launch when they didn't have anything to differentiate group leader, there was a (rather popular) addon that would put the crown on your compass. I think there was a request to do something like that on the ESOUI forums, but don't think it went anywhere.

---

As far as if this is coming to the standard game, my impression is the API is being opened up specifically because they are adding buff trackers to the base UI. It might be some time after, since opening up information on the API is quite a bit easier than designing, coding, and testing onscreen UI elements. They had been messing with it internally, but it seems the console launch significantly boosted its priority. Which to some degree makes sense, as addons could mask a lot of UI problems, but consoles don't have that. I'd venture most authors at least start making addons because of some lack they see in the base UI.

Attorneyatlawl

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

glak wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

But guys, you can't have on-screen buff timers because immersion and elder scrolls tradition and stuff!

If you want immersion, play on console.

I wouldn't feel as immersed being locked to 1080p and 30 fps with worse overall graphics as well with the inability to use tools such as sweetfx.

And then you try a 3840x2160 (4K native) G-Sync enabled monitor with the video cards to keep it at 50-59 FPS full-time with zero input lag or tearing, highly responsive motion, and no tearing when it does dip to 40 occasionally during massive Cyrodiil fights or keep sieges... and shed a tear of joy at how far tech has come as you marvel in the eye candy at max settings in-game + one notch above in the usersettings file for textures .

Not that I did that recently or anything..... wink wink.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

I think that waste majority of players basically cant comprehend ( me included ) practical applications of these changes.
So i will take simplistic approach - can someone give several examples - what we could expect to see in the game ( including addons ) and how that might improve our game experience ofc besides more precise reading of buffs and debuffs on targets .

helediron

With addons, after the change, you should see:
- who damages you with what. Currently you only see "You were hit 2000".
- When you make e.g. a DoT attack or cast a shield you see when it starts, stops and what it actually does. Currently Addons have to guess the times DoTs last from tooltips.

Alcast

PC Players: "We need propper Bufftracking n stuff"
ZOS: no response for 1year+

First Console Player in the game that logged in: "Whoooo whot? Why cant I track my buffs etc?"
ZOS: its done