The Dark Brotherhood: I don't want to be a murderer

Dracane

Seems like the release of the Dark Brotherhood is coming closer. The Brotherhood is infamous for murder being the only thing, that the player can do in this faction.
But roleplayers like me, who refuse to become a murderer, thief or such things, are going to have a sad time.

So I wonder what you folks think. Will we be forced to murder ? Or can we decide to go against the Dark Brotherhood, or will we just stand there, watching the majority of players "enjoying" the new content, while we refuse to join ? I'm thinking about this, since the dark brotherhood was first mentioned for ESO. Same goes for the thieves guild. We're still waiting for them to add the enforcer "faction" to the crime system. But they haven't mentioned anything since months, so I highly doubt, that they will add it to the game.

Rev Rielle

I'm not forced in any way to take part in the in-justice system. My character in no way steals. Similarly I will not likely take part in the Dark Brotherhood if/when it becomes part of the game, because my character does not murder 'innocents'. They are both my personal decisions based on how I RP my character (and how I like to play). I'm certainly happy that the justice system is added to the game (and I hope they continue with plans to involve a PvP aspect in future). I'll also be very happy if they add the Dark Brotherhood to the game as well, as it is part of the Elder Scrolls world.

In no way does seeing someone else enjoying themselves in-game make me unhappy/jealous of them and what they're doing though. If anything, seeing others enjoy themselves makes me myself happier too.

I can only see these additions as a positive things for ESO. Even if I myself choose not to personal involve myself with them I can see the bigger picture.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Dracane wrote: »

But roleplayers like me, who refuse to become a murderer, thief or such things, are going to have a sad time.

So you've never killed another sentient for a quest?

All The Best

traigusb14_ESO2

If you can watch them doing it/enjoying it... they aren't doing Dark Brotherhood murdering.

You can choose not to murder if you want... choose not to steal... choose not to eat any foods requiring seaweed.


Some of my characters won't do DB, just as they don't steal stuff/ murder people now for Legerdemain.

Honestly though.. not sure how you play the game without murdering thousands of bandits and re-murdering thousands of undead.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

As a RPer since 1979, I can tell you that there is a difference between IC and OOC actions. I define the IC actions as what I do when actively RPing. If I am by myself, I am not RPing my characters so I am just playing the game itself. If I am with other people and RPing then I do what is in character. You don't have to stay in character 24/7. In fact, once you hit Cadwell's, that breaks the boundaries as there is no way that my character would logically help the other factions. I have a guildie who defines IC by wearing the guild tabbard. If he is IC, the tabbard is on. If you see him without the tabbard, then he is just playing the game itself. It is the same way that you can be an ooc vampire to get the achievement and not be one ICly.

Revenant_Spartan

Or maybe they intend to do what they did in Skyrim

*SKYRIM SPOILER AHEAD*

You could choose to shut down the DB's HQ and effectively pause their operations in the area.

Might be an option.

asteldian

Or maybe you can do quests that involve killing more sinister people. Contract killing doesn't only have to be about killing people over petit squabbles.

Trollwut

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

As a RPer since 1979, I can tell you that there is a difference between IC and OOC actions. I define the IC actions as what I do when actively RPing. If I am by myself, I am not RPing my characters so I am just playing the game itself. If I am with other people and RPing then I do what is in character. You don't have to stay in character 24/7. In fact, once you hit Cadwell's, that breaks the boundaries as there is no way that my character would logically help the other factions. I have a guildie who defines IC by wearing the guild tabbard. If he is IC, the tabbard is on. If you see him without the tabbard, then he is just playing the game itself. It is the same way that you can be an ooc vampire to get the achievement and not be one ICly.

That's what I wanted to say, just make it OOC.

Merlin13KAGL

asteldian wrote: »

Or maybe you can do quests that involve killing more sinister people. Contract killing doesn't only have to be about killing people over petit squabbles.

Indeed. Sometimes DB was about problems that needed solving in non traditional ways. I suspect there will be more quest type options available than just relieving people of their life force.

There are multiple ways to support your local underground, of course.

Also, have you considered that eliminating the DB itself may be an option? That would likely involve taking life, as they're generally not the lay-down-and-take-it variety. How would your character feel about that? Thwarting the 'hits' could be as much a daily as the hits themselves.

Govt. sanctioned executions? For the 'greater good?'

You'll have the option to pursue the content from either side, I suspect. If you choose to do neither, then you choose to remain oblivious to the fact that it happens & opt out of the content accordingly.

Of course, a well thought out expansion will ultimately direct you to have to make a choice, at some point.

The question is, what choice will that be?

EDIT: The other thing to bear in mind here, there is no fame or infamy rating at the moment (other than the kill or not meter as a result of the justice system.) Other than minor visuals, they have yet to have any (save one) in game decision truly have a long term effect on the world or your character.

Until they implement that, it's no different than any other quest/repeatable.

SantieClaws

Even though I may not choose to partake of murdering personally I can see that the return of the Dark Brotherhood will mean an increase in business for my orc, Sherlock Gro Bones, and that's a good thing.

Boy needs work to fund his .. habits ...

Kronosphere

er.. so what are u actually suggesting op? cuz all im hearin is "wah"

JD2013

So .... Don't pick up the quest line?

The whole point of DB is assassination and murder. That's what they do. For money. That's how they work.

Ulaidian

I like to put a wee bit of me into my characters.. and I like to taste a bit of everything (there are exceptions, but this is a family site), so I will be hoping along to join the brotherhood as and when I feel like doing something different.

Spottswoode

I had a Divine Crusader in Oblivion who was the Listener prior to his redemption. The Gods forgive.

Menelaos

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sometimes DB was about problems that needed solving in non traditional ways.

Well, killing others to achieve a goas IS a pretty traditional way of solving problems

In other news, there are quite some quests in the game already that let you decide if you kill the culprit, let him go, lie to the authorities and the like. Granted, a DB storyline where you grant mercy in each and every quest would be kind of absurd, becaue then the DB would kick you in the teeth pretty soon. But I highly doubt that 'killing stuff' will be the only quests available. Also, since we play in the times where the Dark Brotherhood splinters off from the Morag Tong there may well be other quests at all like 'secure a base' or 'spread false rumors'. I'd like that...

Dahkoht

Let's hope the Dark Brotherhood stays dark.

Last thing we need is a friendly and cuddly assassin guild that is forced to modify its practices because the HR department of the Brotherhood is afraid of lawsuits and makes sure a quota of nice folk is hired.

Pallmor

Just a reminder that this is a game. The people you're "killing" are just 1's and 0's. I know some people are really into RP, and that's fine. But let's not get too carried away here.

nastuug

Dracane wrote: »

Seems like the release of the Dark Brotherhood is coming closer. The Brotherhood is infamous for murder being the only thing, that the player can do in this faction.
But roleplayers like me, who refuse to become a murderer, thief or such things, are going to have a sad time.

So I wonder what you folks think. Will we be forced to murder ? Or can we decide to go against the Dark Brotherhood, or will we just stand there, watching the majority of players "enjoying" the new content, while we refuse to join ? I'm thinking about this, since the dark brotherhood was first mentioned for ESO. Same goes for the thieves guild. We're still waiting for them to add the enforcer "faction" to the crime system. But they haven't mentioned anything since months, so I highly doubt, that they will add it to the game.

Merlin13KAGL

Menelaos wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Sometimes DB was about problems that needed solving in non traditional ways.

Well, killing others to achieve a goas IS a pretty traditional way of solving problems

In other news, there are quite some quests in the game already that let you decide if you kill the culprit, let him go, lie to the authorities and the like. Granted, a DB storyline where you grant mercy in each and every quest would be kind of absurd, becaue then the DB would kick you in the teeth pretty soon. But I highly doubt that 'killing stuff' will be the only quests available. Also, since we play in the times where the Dark Brotherhood splinters off from the Morag Tong there may well be other quests at all like 'secure a base' or 'spread false rumors'. I'd like that...

@Menelaos I want badly to make a Meme for this, but cannot find the picture that I'm looking for, so:

Pic: "I'll let you live, this time." (Repeat in multiple frames, different individuals/backgrounds)
Titled: Dark Brotherhood
Subtitled: You're doing it wrong.



Regarding the non-traditional, I was referring to the creative aspect.The death, of course was always imminent. I was more referring to the fact that you had multiple ways to facilitate the impending demise, at least you did in Oblivion. The non-sanctioned aspect and the artistic license afforded was what made it different than the Morag Tong, for instance.

It didn't have to be an outright slitting of the throat...which was what I, personally, enjoyed.

And let's be honest, you've saved the world as we know it, is there a single one of you out there that doesn't feel your character is a bit beyond the everyday rules and regulations? (We tolerate the guards 'keeping peace' because the game affords them indestructibility and immunity to impression and persuasion. It's truly a rare soul that doesn't question his/her own demise when engaging someone such as ourselves, at least for a moment.)

DB is kind of one of those things you either have deep down in your nature, or you do not.

timidobserver

I would not be opposed to multiple paths of story progression and opposing/exclusive skill lines based on your story choices.

Ranique

A full pacifist in a game is impossible. You will always kill bad guys. The core of the dark brotherhood lessons is that good and right is not a clear path. Take Abnur Tharn. He is not good nor bad, but a bit in between. the philosophy behind the dark brotherhood is that one who is able to perform the dark ritual, has such a strong feeling that someone has to die, that person deserves to die anyways. I could really imagine that children in Tamriel has tried to perform the black ritual just for fun and the thrill with no effect at all, cause they didn't really mean to kill someone (obviously Aventus Aretino doesn't count for that, he really did want Grelod the Kind to be killed and for good reasons to be honest).

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Revenant_Spartan wrote: »

Or maybe they intend to do what they did in Skyrim
You could choose to shut down the DB's HQ and effectively pause their operations in the area.

Which effectively shut you out from the entire DB questline for that character. It was more of a role playing option than a well considered quest choice. In ESO, I think we will have to settle for the options "no thanks, maybe later" and "sure, sounds fun". The choice "heck no, die evildoers die" probably won't make much sense in an MMO setting. But we'll see.

Xvorg

What if Sithis send you to kill an evil NPC who beats his wife?
Or if they send you to kill an enemy faction's member... let's say the Cammona Tong, for example?

In Oblivion you had the option to reject the invitation to the DB (Same as Morrrowind with the Morag Tong). I think here is going to be, if not the same, pretty similar. If you want the passives given by the DB, then you have to do what they ask you to do (remember, you can always use poisoned apples)

Now, things will be pretty interesting if Zen uses a guild system similar to the one used in Morrowind, when belonging to a faction immediately caused the rejection/sympathy of another faction

Heruthema

Am I playing a different game than everyone else. Every quest I do I have to kill, maim, slaughter someone. I am constantly asked to kill specific targets, get their heads, send them to oblivion. The Dark Brotherhood is a group of assassins and they do hide that fact.
How can you complete the game without killing, killing, killing? It is a game and like most it involves a lot of killing. Why is a quest assignment to kill a group of people different than a contract from the Dark Brotherhood?

AMadAussie

Dracane wrote: »

But roleplayers like me, who refuse to become a murderer, thief or such things, are going to have a sad time.

So I wonder what you folks think. Will we be forced to murder ? Or can we decide to go against the Dark Brotherhood, or will we just stand there, watching the majority of players "enjoying" the new content, while we refuse to join ?

While I appreciate what you're saying, I don't see how that's any different to the current guilds. You might be RPing as a 2h/heavy armour melee character, who refuses to touch magic with a 10ft pole [think skyrim college of winterhold stigma]. Do you join the mages guild, or do you miss out on the passives and the skills? On the other hand, you might be RPing as a vampire or werewolf, both of which are actively hunted down by the fighters guild. Do you join the fighters guild, or do you miss out on the passives and skills and put yourself at a disadvantage?

Same difference.

Squishs

How about a counter skill line, akin to a Guardsmen skill set, perfect for hunting thieves and murderers alike! with minigames involving incapacitating fleeing assassin and thieves, earning rewards for returning items and tossing people in jail!

Perhaps where the other theft and murder trees could focus on stealth an assassination the guardsmen tree could focus on countering that via shielding, ' life grips ', throwing people out of stealth, tracking individuals and even a quest to hunt people with high bounties for those noice (NOICE!) gold pieces.

We need more cops and robbers with appropriate old-timey music montages.

ShackledDreams

I don't plan on having more than one or two characters within the Dark Brotherhood. As such, I hope that DLC has increased random encounters with the DB for those who are not affiliated so that they can take part in the content on some level. Perhaps killing your first DB Assassin leads to a run in with more DB or opens up quest to foil Assassinations.

Yaillen

Dracane wrote: »

Seems like the release of the Dark Brotherhood is coming closer. The Brotherhood is infamous for murder being the only thing, that the player can do in this faction.
But roleplayers like me, who refuse to become a murderer, thief or such things, are going to have a sad time.

Dear Dracane,

I'm happy to inform you that together with the Dark Brotherhood (DB) I will offer a confession/redemption service. The nasty, guilty, dirty feeling from killing an innocent civillian will be cleansed.
For 10k gold (for level 1 of DB), I will remove your heavy hearth. I promise that atleast 5% of the gold will be spend in favor of the family of the victims. Ofcourse, they won't be informed that the gold came from you. But you are the 'unknown benefactor'.

Ravarx

There are actually people who play a right and just character? I'm practically jumping up and down at the thought of wreaking havoc on poor innocent pixelized souls and giving them a first class ride to the Void. Maybe it has something to do with some sort of internalised aggression on my part, but I could never play a good character. The benefits of being bad are greatly superior in most cases. It just seems like you miss out on some amazing things. To each his own though, I suppose. Maybe there will be a counter guild to join that will have a sort of justice along the lines of what your character enjoys. We'll just have to wait and see.

oXb3

I cannot wait for the Dark Brotherhood. Hail Sithis!!! I will send as many innocents into the void to be with the Night Mother and the Dread Father. I always play bad in video games...I think because I could never act in such a way in real life. I am the type of person where if a person came up to me on the street and asked for clothes or food I would just give him/her the clothes off my back and go buy them food with whatever money I had in my pocket.

Kazzy56

PS4 EU

Methinks a psychiatist would have a field day in this thread!

But yes, I will likely play one character within the Brotherhood. The content is sure to be fun.