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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Do the crafted experience potions require bervez juice?
Best Answer
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MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They said they will release what ingredients are needed next patch notes...
Although there was some data mined info that I believe said it would use 1 of each purple ingredient, plus a new rare ingredient.. but that could have changed.
[EDIT] Because I like to add sources.We’ll detail exactly how you can craft Psijic Ambrosia in next week’s patch notes.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/176211/experience-point-boostersEdited by MissBizz on June 12, 2015 6:51PMLone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord6
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pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.End the tedious inventory management game.1 -
Exstazik✭✭✭✭
well if perfect roe will be getting throw refine fish....it's really p2wpecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
*PM me if someone know interesting MMO
Edited by Exstazik on June 12, 2015 7:16PM0 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭this is the million dollar question. If making these potions becomes an ultra rare thing, then it's a p2w. If making them is no different then making any other purple receipt, then kudos Zos. It's a pay for convenience model.Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.0 -
Exstazik✭✭✭✭
i'm prepare and keep 1000 each for thisGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
1 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2wReften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
i'm prepare and keep 1000 each for thisGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
Exactly. And it's not that rare. I get 30 to 40 a week easily. It makes me laugh seeing he many try to paint almost anything as P2W.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »
i'm prepare and keep 1000 each for thisGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
Exactly. And it's not that rare. I get 30 to 40 a week easily. It makes me laugh seeing he many try to paint almost anything as P2W.
1) Details haven't been released and 2) they aren't going to make the mats that plentiful.0 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not if you have 8 characters with provisioning at level 50 and 3 points in hirelings.pecheckler wrote: »Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
I got stacks of that stuff ...
Edited by SirAndy on June 12, 2015 8:22PM1 -
WebBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players.
You means the loyal players they have already alienated with 4+ months of no content? You mean the loyal players they have already alienated by paying to beta test for console for a year? Nah, anyone who would be alienated is already alienated.
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Just as you are labeling it P2W without knowledge. Seriously.0 -
pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Edited by pecheckler on June 12, 2015 8:24PMEnd the tedious inventory management game.1 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.0 -
pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
End the tedious inventory management game.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.0 -
pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A competitive game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
Edited by pecheckler on June 12, 2015 8:54PMEnd the tedious inventory management game.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A competitive game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
I fail to see how your question is germain to the subject at hand or even anything pertaining to ESO.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
First off, it's a 'Yes or No' question. Secondly, ofc it's not P2W since it can be acquired with in-game playtime.
Is your above scenario fair? No way. Not by any means. Should it be considered P2W? In my opinion, no. This whole P2W thing originated from being able/forced to purchase additional advances in a given game with real money when there was no way to obtain them in-game.0 -
Exstazik✭✭✭✭
17k for 4 potion?it's not p2w.Can easily pay 35k for 4Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
0 -
pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A competitive game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
I fail to see how your question is germain to the subject at hand or even anything pertaining to ESO.
I did not use ESO as the example because the thread police should just remove my post and suspend me again for "slander".pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
First off, it's a 'Yes or No' question. Secondly, ofc it's not P2W since it can be acquired with in-game playtime.
Is your above scenario fair? No way. Not by any means. Should it be considered P2W? In my opinion, no. This whole P2W thing originated from being able/forced to purchase additional advances in a given game with real money when there was no way to obtain them in-game.
Okay than myself and many other players disagree with you. Also we're arguing semantics which is a sign to stop.End the tedious inventory management game.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A competitive game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
I fail to see how your question is germain to the subject at hand or even anything pertaining to ESO.
I did not use ESO as the example because the thread police should just remove my post and suspend me again for "slander".pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
First off, it's a 'Yes or No' question. Secondly, ofc it's not P2W since it can be acquired with in-game playtime.
Is your above scenario fair? No way. Not by any means. Should it be considered P2W? In my opinion, no. This whole P2W thing originated from being able/forced to purchase additional advances in a given game with real money when there was no way to obtain them in-game.
Okay than myself and many other players disagree with you. Also we're arguing semantics which is a sign to stop.
Because there is no P2W example on ESO. It would have to be slander to come up with a P2W example within this game.1 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A competitive game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
I fail to see how your question is germain to the subject at hand or even anything pertaining to ESO.
I did not use ESO as the example because the thread police should just remove my post and suspend me again for "slander".pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
You don't know this. How do you know a mat won't be added to the game with the similar scarcity as nirm? Think about that for a minute. 1 nirm, a 17k value item, makes four potions.
p2w
Well they sure as hell won't make the mats plentiful. Quite stupid if they ever plan to make real money off them in the Crown Store.
quite stupid will be going to a p2w model alienating all their loyals players. I'm keeping up with the power gamers decently right now. As soon as you allow power gamers to easily spend more money to run around with 50% more CPs then me, well, it's on to the next game.
It's pretty standard, actually. They won't allow it to be created so easily if they plan to make money off it in the Crown Store...
There are tons of ways to make money off the crown store and other services without even touching on pay2win.
Race changes.
Name changes.
Appearance changes.
Unique weapon skins.
Werewolf/vampire shortcuts.
Guild services such as private guild taverns.
Platform character transfers Xbox <--> PS4 or throw in PC too.
Or ya know... new content!
Don't try to change the subject. That doesn't make any bit of difference in the here and now. Point is, if everyone has access to endless amounts of it through the Guild Traders, it won't be worth selling on the Crown Store.
Yes. Exactly.
I'm trying to point out that Zenimax has created a new problem which is deciding how much to limit the creation of the experience boost crafted items. Every game with microtransactions has the same issue. It boils down to a time to dollar ratio. For example: Player A has 25 champion points and wants to calculate how many hours or dollars+hours it will take to hit 200 points and compare the two methods investment requirements. As soon as a game reaches a point where that is necessary or even possible to do that, then you've entered the pay2win grey area between respectable and disrespectful business models.
This whole P2W designation has gotten way out of hand. Originally, it was applied to something that could only be obtained with real money. If something was able to be obtained in-game, then it wasn't considered P2W. In today's world, it seems anything that provides any in-game boost, whether it is actually obtainable or not in-game, is labeled as P2W.
So I understand how you feel on the topic i'll ask you a yes or no question.
1.) A game has powerful weapons you can buy and use immediately for $15 and $20. You can also unlock these same weapons for free after playing (with inferior weapons) for an average of 75 and 100 hours respectively. Is this pay to win?
First off, it's a 'Yes or No' question. Secondly, ofc it's not P2W since it can be acquired with in-game playtime.
Is your above scenario fair? No way. Not by any means. Should it be considered P2W? In my opinion, no. This whole P2W thing originated from being able/forced to purchase additional advances in a given game with real money when there was no way to obtain them in-game.
Okay than myself and many other players disagree with you. Also we're arguing semantics which is a sign to stop.
No, we're not. You created an idiotic thread in the first place asking if an unreleased crafting item uses a certain material or not.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »pecheckler wrote: »This seems like one of those topics where there will be a great deal of scrutiny over any daily/weekly limits or rarity of obtaining the ingredients when compared to buying with cash. Players who drop a lot of cash are going to have a huge stats advantage in PvP. How are we not supposed to see this as directly selling power? Especially if bervez juice is required which is extremely limited.
The purple matts are not all that limited. I have more than 200 of each stack. Besides, crafters will sell this in game for gold so anyone can obtain it without spending cash.
The main problem here is the legendary ingredient said to be required for crafting the drinks, as well as the recipe.
It comes down to the rarity of these. If each of these legendary ingredients is going to cost you a fortune, it's not going to be something most players can afford (and no one has them stored up at the moment for obvious reasons).
Though, even with those 200 you have stored up, you'll have only 666 hours or 40 000 minutes worth of XP boost, a couple of months at most (in a system that will take years to maximize).
200*4(amount of drinks created)*50 : 60
Bottom line: if at any point players are forced into the Cash Shop to stay competitive, it will quite clearly be considered P2W.Edited by DDuke on June 12, 2015 9:46PM0 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭SinfulSoul wrote: »
still doesn't answer any of the questions...how rare is perfect roe? I'm betting as rare as nirm.Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0
