Siege IS how you FIX AvA

Chrlynsch

PVP is broken...
-Zergs stacking @ casting aoe is how you win. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as more organized and "higher skilled" players can defeat overwhelming numbers. -The problem is when you have 2 or more of the balls of death clashing and crashing a server. Blame game starts.

How do you break the balls?
-You simply can't change skills or tweek them for AvA without breaking Pve
-Current siege is useless against purge spamming zergs
-Solution is to change some siege

change siege how so?
-All siege attacks Health and some add a status effects. Health is the most buffed, most buffered, and easiest resource to replenish this is an issue. Let's change some of these siege work.
-Ice siege will now attack Stamina, a little health and speed.
-lightning will now attack Magicka, a little health and silences enemies for 3 sec

Ok what does that change to siege really do?
-A good pvp player doesn't die in pvp because he runs out of health (though obviously has to in order to die), a good player dies in pvp because he runs out of utility resources, and with CP, cost reduction, tri-pot using characters draining these resources has become nearly impossible.
- we now have a way to really hurt a lot of people with a little siege if they are all stacking Zerg style.

Share your thoughts and discuss!

@ZOS_PaulSage @ZOS_GinaBruno

vortexman11

This is actually a great idea, much better than all the people who simply think the only way to make siege better is by increasing their damage to insane amounts.

Garion

Prothwata wrote: »

PVP is broken...
-Zergs stacking @ casting aoe is how you win. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as more organized and "higher skilled" players can defeat overwhelming numbers. -The problem is when you have 2 or more of the balls of death clashing and crashing a server. Blame game starts.

How do you break the balls?
-You simply can't change skills or tweek them for AvA without breaking Pve
-Current siege is useless against purge spamming zergs
-Solution is to change some siege

change siege how so?
-All siege attacks Health and some add a status effects. Health is the most buffed, most buffered, and easiest resource to replenish this is an issue. Let's change some of these siege work.
-Ice siege will now attack Stamina, a little health and speed.
-lightning will now attack Magicka, a little health and silences enemies for 3 sec

Ok what does that change to siege really do?
-I good pvp player doesn't die in pvp because he runs out of health (though obviously has to in order to die), a good player dies in pvp because he runs out of utility resources, and with CP, cost reduction, tri-pot using characters draining these resources has become nearly impossible.
- we now have a way to really hurt a lot of people with a little siege if they are all stacking Zerg style.

Share your thoughts and discuss!

@ZOS_PaulSage @ZOS_GinaBruno

The bolded / italic point I have highlighted is exactly why your argument is flawed from the start. This shouldn't matter.

My opinions on buffing siege - in whatever way - are well documented. I disagree entirely because these changes will impact smaller groups more than larger groups, which will only encourage people to run in bigger numbers because they will be seeking safety in those numbers. That's the fundamental problem with increasing siege damage or giving them additional features that make them the popular choice for every man and his dog.

Changes instead should be made to gameplay mechanics, the environment and perhaps some skills (i.e. prox det scaling on number of players hit) rather than blindly increasing the viability of siege.

Chrlynsch

@Garion while I see where you might have misunderstood me

When I say one can't simply change skills for PVP I don't mean it is impossible and not a good way to help balance classes (not pvp as a whole)

I won't speak for you but here is how I see a healthy pvp.

A smaller force should have a heck of a time taking a keep that has overwhelming numbers. But players should be afraid at putting all of their eggs in one basket offense or defense.

Stacking is what is breaking the game. This would help fix that without having to create more game breaking abilities.

iseko

If you give weapons to small groups to kill zergs then the OP builds will run rampant.

If you buff siege then zergs will still run rampant.

Remove aoe attacks from pvp. All the lag and all the problems with trains come from aoe based attacks. Screw aoe.. Or reduce aoe dmg by 80% in cyrodiil or something. The server Im on was lag free for a month. It started lagging since 2aoe train guilds joined. In the lag free month there were huge conflicts with all 3 pop locked factions. Now my ping goes to 999+ at the friggin gate. Remove aoe

Chrlynsch

@iseko

The best thing about OP builds is that all sides can use them to bring balance to the war... I'm ok with being out skilled ,out flanked, out played. But when skills break to lag, and when strategy can't be used. There is where we all no longer have fun.

I do agree that aoe causes lag, but if you recall when siege was buffed to a point where it was ridiculous zergballs were shrinking.

I do not think buffing seige damage is the solution. I do think that attacking valuable resource that fuel OP builds is where we can change the game for the better.

If you look at blackwater, is there usually is less lag. Yes. Are there fewer players on the screen? No. Do they have access to aoe? Yes. Do they have the sustain to keep attacking in zero ball form? No.

This change would give us a way to attack sustain... This is what we need!

Hypertionb14_ESO

Prothwata wrote: »

@iseko

The best thing about OP builds is that all sides can use them to bring balance to the war... I'm ok with being out skilled ,out flanked, out played. But when skills break to lag, and when strategy can't be used. There is where we all no longer have fun.

I do agree that aoe causes lag, but if you recall when siege was buffed to a point where it was ridiculous zergballs were shrinking.

I do not think buffing seige damage is the solution. I do think that attacking valuable resource that fuel OP builds is where we can change the game for the better.

If you look at blackwater, is there usually is less lag. Yes. Are there fewer players on the screen? No. Do they have access to aoe? Yes. Do they have the sustain to keep attacking in zero ball form? No.

This change would give us a way to attack sustain... This is what we need!

this was a major change and it did brielfy cause groups to spread out... but then Purge was figured out and groups went right back to stacking...

its sad its reached this point... but im going to go ahead and just flat out say it...

We need to nerf purge.

even if it didnt effect seige it will be useful on a push to clear out stuns....

Chrlynsch

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

@iseko

The best thing about OP builds is that all sides can use them to bring balance to the war... I'm ok with being out skilled ,out flanked, out played. But when skills break to lag, and when strategy can't be used. There is where we all no longer have fun.

I do agree that aoe causes lag, but if you recall when siege was buffed to a point where it was ridiculous zergballs were shrinking.

I do not think buffing seige damage is the solution. I do think that attacking valuable resource that fuel OP builds is where we can change the game for the better.

If you look at blackwater, is there usually is less lag. Yes. Are there fewer players on the screen? No. Do they have access to aoe? Yes. Do they have the sustain to keep attacking in zero ball form? No.

This change would give us a way to attack sustain... This is what we need!

this was a major change and it did brielfy cause groups to spread out... but then Purge was figured out and groups went right back to stacking...

its sad its reached this point... but im going to go ahead and just flat out say it...

We need to nerf purge.

even if it didnt effect seige it will be useful on a push to clear out stuns....

Purge is part of the issue. I think that a individual synergy is the key... including a cool down much like templar's spears may help.

Where adding a seige that can silence enemies/ destroy a magica pool could really shake things up for a blob

cjthibs

If siege impacts would stun those caught in it...and if purge was interruptable...those two things could make a difference.

Hypertionb14_ESO

Prothwata wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

@iseko

The best thing about OP builds is that all sides can use them to bring balance to the war... I'm ok with being out skilled ,out flanked, out played. But when skills break to lag, and when strategy can't be used. There is where we all no longer have fun.

I do agree that aoe causes lag, but if you recall when siege was buffed to a point where it was ridiculous zergballs were shrinking.

I do not think buffing seige damage is the solution. I do think that attacking valuable resource that fuel OP builds is where we can change the game for the better.

If you look at blackwater, is there usually is less lag. Yes. Are there fewer players on the screen? No. Do they have access to aoe? Yes. Do they have the sustain to keep attacking in zero ball form? No.

This change would give us a way to attack sustain... This is what we need!

this was a major change and it did brielfy cause groups to spread out... but then Purge was figured out and groups went right back to stacking...

its sad its reached this point... but im going to go ahead and just flat out say it...

We need to nerf purge.

even if it didnt effect seige it will be useful on a push to clear out stuns....

Purge is part of the issue. I think that a individual synergy is the key... including a cool down much like templar's spears may help.

Where adding a seige that can silence enemies/ destroy a magica pool could really shake things up for a blob

you can CC break Silence. fast enough with it and you can just purge any effect that reduces resources and unless that reduction is instant and enough to completly 0% the magicka reserves the average regen will get enough magicka back to go right back to infinitly spamming Impulse, Purge, Healing springs/illustrious and what have you..

unless the silence is unbreakable, unpurgable and the magicka reduction also prevents regen it will have no effect and thats way too much on any single or combination of seige, leat alone specifically lightning which already kicks ass but is rendered moot purely on the merits of purge against zergs.

its not a bad idea to alter purge and some is pretty lackluster. i personally think scattershot Catapults should cause a 2s Knockdown, which would be enough to severely hamper a zergball but not much danger against a single person or the more spread out groups. Ice Trebs need to have a DOT like the Lightning or just a straight immobilize on the inital hit in addition to the snare.

cjthibs wrote: »

If siege impacts would stun those caught in it...and if purge was interruptable...those two things could make a difference.

giving purge a cast time might actually be a viable change... the cast time would require zergs to move slow enough for purgers to keep up and would prevent them from blocking damage. i dont think oils should stun, but the others are fine.

Domander

I like it, I think we should also have attacks in game that attack resource pools directly. It's kinda needed at this point.

Chrlynsch

Domander wrote: »

I like it, I think we should also have attacks in game that attack resource pools directly. It's kinda needed at this point.

I agree, I've voiced cold attacks partially hurting stam and lighting attacks partially hurting magica for a while now... The way it's been in elder scrolls games for a while. Never really felt right in eso not having it. Hopefully though something will be implement via spell crafting. If it is even on the board any longer.