[Brainstorming] Stealing from other players, how would it work?

HeroOfNone

Last night some folks in stream brought up the point of stealing from other players. While I'm for adding negative and positive interactions with other players, I can't see how it could work until the justice system had player guards, players on the same faction could attack one another, and without a system in place to prevent farming. So, let's talk about the latter, assuming that player guards and there are ways to player pvp.

What would you steal?
Stealing actual items off players might lead to a host of issues. Of course anything bound shouldn't transfer over, less we break the lock and allow a way to subvert the lock. So alternatively we only allow unbound items to be stolen. Unless fresh from a dungeon, most wouldn't even have items that are not bound to them outside of food and potions. Most would likely turtle items as well, leaving everything they can in banks or well hidden mule characters. Lets say you are coming back from a dungeon encounter, would you want a hard fought piece of the skirmisher or a ravager band that you just bought but didn't equip to be stolen? Not likely. Maybe I'm just too opinionated on such things.

What else can we offer stealing from other players
After some thought over a few months, why not give players loot tables similar to NPCs? You'd have a chance to steal white, green, blue, even purple items. The chance for something good though should go up or down though depending on the two player levels, otherwise it's extremely easy for a high level to steal off a low level. This would seem to integrate better with how we have the system now, without losing hard fought loot or letting players turtle their goods.

What are the negatives to being robbed?
If we allow full on item stealing, the effect is pretty obvious. If we allow NPC loot tables though, we'd have to organize a set of debuffs. The debuff would prevent or given less loot for the next player, but also annoy you as well. A few things this could include is reduced gold found, less chance to find good items, less chance to get mats from breaking things down, and possible stamina or magicka regen. This debuff could be cleared if your thief is captured and forced to return their items, over time, or if you pay a small fee to the gaurds.

What can you do if you've been robbed?
I feel most players should be a "advanced" level of pickpocketing, with a 20-40% chance until you raise skill level into pickpocketing. So your character will passively stop pickpocketing attempts on their own. If it succeeds however, you should have a limited time and attempts to accuse your pickpocketer. This will give them a bounty and let them be attack by you or by guards. If you use up your accusations though, let's say 2 to 3, the guards won't believe you and you'll have to pray other players or NPCS get them. I'd also be on the fence when a person is attack able if they could fight back. It would be pretty easy for a high level to pick on lowbie toons, even with reduced loot, and one shot them in a lot of builds. If the accuser could be the only one to fight them until guards or player guards got thrre, that would up some of the skill needed. Also not sure outside heals should necessarily apply

Where can you steal?
in the open world? In town? PVP? I'd argue if we're going with the system above the only viable area would be in a certain range of a town and gaurds. Allowing g to be done anywhere would distract from the adventuring and lead to other issues with phasing. Also, to make sure folks aren't just robbed while loading in, a certain time or a certain action (talking to an NPC, taking 5 steps) would have to be done before being stealable. This may or may not cause issues with Roleplay Era though. In PVP this might be interested against enemy players, but not sure how this wouldn't just be over abused by nightblades on players without detect pots.

What else can improve this?
There are a few things that could be put in place to help systems like this. Now I mentioned player guards should be in place, but a really well developed guard system would help this considerably. If towns could be shut out and instanced with gateways snd doors I think that could also help make towns more "arena" like for thieves, but that might be a bit much. Player housing would be another way to really add a layer of breaking and entering stealing in as well.



So, what are some other's thoughts with stealing from other players? Would you opt out? Take part? What do you want to see with a player based stealing system? Assume of course this may never be realized, but it's fun to talk about =3.

Rook_Master

This is a pure fantasy.

I'm afraid that stealing from other players and full-corpse looting died out with Ultimate Online back in the 90s.

Suru

Sounds like it would ber exploited and hell for merchants in ESO

Mordria

No thank you. Way too much opportunity for abuse/exploits.

HeroOfNone

@Rook_Master & @Suru you did read the alternative from player loot in the 2nd paragraph right doesn't necessarily have to be directly stealing from their inventory.

HeroOfNone

@Rook_Master & @Suru you did read the alternative from player loot in the 2nd paragraph right doesn't necessarily have to be directly stealing from their inventory.

HeroOfNone

@Rook_Master & @Suru you did read the alternative from player loot in the 2nd paragraph right doesn't necessarily have to be directly stealing from their inventory.

Nestor

The day the game system starts taking things out of my inventory for whatever reason is the day I quit playing the game. I don't care if it is stolen by another player or an NPC.

If there was a class of inventory made and acquired for this purpose, then maybe. Perhaps, if the only thing that could be stolen is Legerdemain flagged items that are already marked stolen, is about the only way I could tolerate this. Even then, it would irk me to no end to have it happen to me.

If they made it so there was this imaginary loot table that produced items for others to steal that had no effect on my inventory, still not sure if I want to go through the game getting felt up by every player looking to pick-pocket somebody.

HeroOfNone

Nestor wrote: »

The day the game system starts taking things out of my inventory for whatever reason is the day I quit playing the game. I don't care if it is stolen by another player or an NPC.

If there was a class of inventory made and acquired for this purpose, then maybe. Perhaps, if the only thing that could be stolen is Legerdemain flagged items that are already marked stolen, is about the only way I could tolerate this. Even then, it would irk me to no end to have it happen to me.

Sort of my feelings as well, but others might call me a care bear for not wanting an expert gank er stealing the stuff I ground out in a dungeon with a proper build. Others though seem to long for that hardcore approach.

I'd be irked with being pickpocketer as well, but would be kind of fun trying to run through a crowd catching the thief too though.

Sausage

What if players start to steal from each other as a hobby? People just steal and dont do or care anything. Too big risk guilds start to make events where they just steal from each other.

If they ever are going to improve Thieving I hope they add Heists. Heists are kind of cool thing now, as GTA5 has them too. It was suggested here a while back, like Caravan, or Bank robbery.

PBpsy

It would not work.

KerinKor

HeroOfNone wrote: »

So, what are some other's thoughts with stealing from other players?

/sigh

Why do people insist on wanting to infest this PVE game with yet more PVP only a minority take part in or are interested in?

Justice is a fatuous system in the first place, it's nothing like it exists in real TES games and in a a game where multi-factions are present to provide a lame excuse for PVP at the very least you should be murdering other factions' NPCs not your own.

So my thoughts: NO, we don't need ANY open-world PVP, sadly we'll have Justice rammed down our throats like it or not, we don't need this extension.

Nestor

Sausage wrote: »

If they ever are going to improve Thieving I hope they add Heists. Heists are kind of cool thing now, as GTA5 has them too. It was suggested here a while back, like Caravan, or Bank robbery.

Yes, I will gladly abuse NPCs all day long. These would be easy to set up. Maybe we wade through guards to get to the loot. Or, maybe we get better loot if we successfully sneak in and sneak out with the prize. There are many possibilities with this that appeal to me.

Cry_Wolfe

I think it would break the game.

Should i be able to walk up to a player, face to face and just steal from them? If yes, then you'll find that people would just farm happily all day.

If no, then how do you work the stealth mechanic? Does only the player you are stealing from need to detect you, or can other players detect you and break stealth?

On the one hand you have players amassing easy wealth, on the other you have a new rule set to define where and when same faction players can break each others stealth. With the Latter you would essentially ruin the entire "thief" experience of the Justice system whereby a player trying to break into houses or pickpocket could get griefed by another player who only has to break the first players stealth.

Cross faction(PvP) pickpocketing with an alternate loot table could be a thing, as the risk vs reward structure is already there, but good luck with getting people to stand still in a PvP zone.

(thought about this a bit early on, and unless you have an EvE style "legal" system of being able to attack someone for commiting a crime against you (and being able to put bounties on your head that allows ANY player to attack you on sight for an amount of time), then its just a gimmicky system that really is better off not being in the game... )
oh and suicide ganking.... is a total exploit

HeroOfNone

Sausage wrote: »

What if players start to steal from each other as a hobby? People just steal and dont do or care anything. Too big risk guilds start to make events where they just steal from each other.

If they ever are going to improve Thieving I hope they add Heists. Heists are kind of cool thing now, as GTA5 has them too. It was suggested here a while back, like Caravan, or Bank robbery.

Might be interesting as a group event, but given that when folks are stolen from get a debuff, repetitive or steal swapping would be pretty poor to do as a group event. Player A gets robbed and player b gets the items and gold. Player a robs player be back, but because they were robbed they get less loot and possibly less exp. Player c robs from player a when they still have a debuff and player c gets less loot and exp since they were recently robbed.

Not saying there wouldn't be swapping but it would be better to solo most times.

KerinKor wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

So, what are some other's thoughts with stealing from other players?

/sigh

Why do people insist on wanting to infest this PVE game with yet more PVP only a minority take part in or are interested in?

Justice is a fatuous system in the first place, it's nothing like it exists in real TES games and in a a game where multi-factions are present to provide a lame excuse for PVP at the very least you should be murdering other factions' NPCs not your own.

So my thoughts: NO, we don't need ANY open-world PVP, sadly we'll have Justice rammed down our throats like it or not, we don't need this extension.

This is less of a true "open world" PVP system than others. It's a minigame, withsome combat elements but mostly stealth and escape. I know not everyone likes PVP, which is why I'd like to find an easy way to opt in and out as well, but given this is just a brain storming thread, I figured some might help contribute

Sausage

Nestor wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

If they ever are going to improve Thieving I hope they add Heists. Heists are kind of cool thing now, as GTA5 has them too. It was suggested here a while back, like Caravan, or Bank robbery.

Yes, I will gladly abuse NPCs all day long. These would be easy to set up. Maybe we wade through guards to get to the loot. Or, maybe we get better loot if we successfully sneak in and sneak out with the prize. There are many possibilities with this that appeal to me.

It actually deserves own damn game. That kind of stuff Fantasy needs nowadays, something utterly out of the box. Fantasy version of GTA5! Gimme. I would pay anything for such a game, I could charge in bank with my mates, and chop off guard's head and steal the gold.

Shadesofkin

It's always cool in theory, it's terrible in practice. No thank you.

NewBlacksmurf

It would break down the whole point of playing with others.
It's not a single player game

Lenikus

This could be done
a) Stealing actual items from inventory.
or
b) Stealing fantasy items like those you get frm npcs, only from players.

Either it's the most exploitable feature, or it'll be full of people in zone "Pickpocket me for 6hours, 100k gold"

It can't be done.