DK still in need of a reliable gapcloser (class ability)

Yuke

Dear ZoS, im begging you, give us Dragonknights a gap closer that works. Fiery Grip doesnt work - no, its even totally messed up, due to the fact that it ignores Z-axis. Nothing happens when your target stands > 1 meter above or below you.

I know that you guys dont care rightnow, because of the imminent console release. But please consider a skill revamp when you are finally done with the console release.

We DKs cant use weapon ability gap closer in the 1.6. meta, because they are too expensive. Our defense is blocking, which costs stamina as well, we cant waste stamina for gapclosing and we shouldnt be forced to waste our champion points in the cost reduction tree for stamina abilities, only because there is no class ability gap closer that actually works (since beta btw).

Please help us. We suffered enough (or at least give us a statement about that issue).

VincentBlanquin

agreed completely. i come to game with an idea dragonknight with sword and shield setup for pvp and really dont know how to make it works against all that huge damage dealers. I think its normal plan sword and shield as main weapon and bow as secondary, but how to make it works? in reality, all dragonknights are forced to 2handed weapon, unless they have no chance. sad

Valymer

How about one with a GCD like the one templars get?

After all, fair is fair.

Yuke

Still would be the better alternative to Fiery Grip.

BuggeX

dk Need a lot of rework imho

Valymer

Yuke wrote: »

Still would be the better alternative to Fiery Grip.

Would it, though?

Well, maybe in PvE.

For my templar though, Shielded Assault > Critical Rush > Toppling Charge...which means I don't use Toppling Charge.

Yuke

Dude, at least your gap closer is closing the gap :P

But i agree that the templar gap closer could need a revamp too.

Armitas

BuggeX wrote: »

dk Need a lot of rework imho

Yep,

• They took fiery grip and made it a gamble that it works, and a gamble that it will work in the right direction
• They took flames of oblivion which no one slotted and replaced it with a skill that is like mage light, only mage light is better so now it's still not slotted. (FYI the 20% crit is a bug, it's actually 10%)
• Sea of flames... what the heck is this, I don't even?
• They added 50 ultimate to banner cause of PvP...and yet...meteor...
• They screwed up igneous weapons by making it better and then giving it an intolerable maintenance attached to a class with an already high dot maintenance.
• They screwed up molten weapons by giving us a decent execute, that requires the activation of the skill and then the full charge of a heavy attack before it does anything. Meanwhile everyone else has automatic and instant executes.
• Then they removed the miss chance on cinderstorm because they wanted to do away with miss, even though they could have replaced it with dodge.

The only thing I'm really happy with is the change to razor armor, dragon leap, and if I were stamina corrosive armor. The major changes were major flops, they just completely missed the mark and left us with the changes for months.

BuggeX

i liked the old Flames of oblivions

Bashev

Armitas wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

dk Need a lot of rework imho

Yep,

• They took fiery grip and made it a gamble that it works, and a gamble that it will work in the right direction
• They took flames of oblivion which no one slotted and replaced it with a skill that is like mage light, only mage light is better so now it's still not slotted.
• Sea of flames... what the heck is this, I don't even?
• They added 50 ultimate to banner making meteor a clear choice
• They screwed up igneous weapons by making it better and then putting an intolerable maintenance on it.
• They screwed up molten weapons by giving us a decent execute, that requires the activation of the skill and, then the full charge of a heavy attack before it does anything. Meanwhile everyone else has automatic and instant executes.
• Then they removed the miss chance on cinderstorm because they wanted to do away with miss, even though they could have replaced it with dodge.

The only thing I'm really happy with is the change to razor armor, dragon leap, and if I were stamina corrosive armor. The major changes were major flops.

I agree with all points.
I want to add that talons as a root are no longer useful with the current meta. All stamina classes can rolldodge more than 20 times in a row, the rest magicka classes except DK have a counter skill (BE, teleport strike, cleanse).

AhPook_Is_Here

Yuke wrote: »

Dear ZoS, im begging you, give us Dragonknights a gap closer that works. Fiery Grip doesnt work - no, its even totally messed up, due to the fact that it ignores Z-axis. Nothing happens when your target stands > 1 meter above or below you.

I know that you guys dont care rightnow, because of the imminent console release. But please consider a skill revamp when you are finally done with the console release.

We DKs cant use weapon ability gap closer in the 1.6. meta, because they are too expensive. Our defense is blocking, which costs stamina as well, we cant waste stamina for gapclosing and we shouldnt be forced to waste our champion points in the cost reduction tree for stamina abilities, only because there is no class ability gap closer that actually works (since beta btw).

Please help us. We suffered enough (or at least give us a statement about that issue).

We have a ton, dragon leap, chains which works poorly and randomly and is really messed up in PVE as even in flat places like sanctum it bugs out on the elevation calculation, also the same 2 everyone has from weapons. I'd rather have an escape button like ball lightning or dark cloak.

eliisra

Valymer wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

Still would be the better alternative to Fiery Grip.

Would it, though?

Well, maybe in PvE.

For my templar though, Shielded Assault > Critical Rush > Toppling Charge...which means I don't use Toppling Charge.

Rather the other way around. Fiery Grip is one of the best skills out there in PvE, at least for a tank. Makes dungeons, trials and DSA/VDSA hell of a lot easier. In PvP tho, that skill is a joke. It's actually worse than Toppling Charge (if that's possible).

Only weapon/stamina based gap closers are instant in ESO, because ZoS. Toppling has GCD and gets you stuck, Teleport Strike has cast time, Fiery Grip will not close a gap instantly either, it mostly does nothing in PvP. Guess Bolt Escape is pretty instant, but can we call it a gap closer?

Would be cool if DK's got a class based gap closer sure. But I'm pretty sure it will be a disappointment and all the DK's will go back to Invasion. Will be cursed by channelling, cast time or a GCD that locks you out of abilities

BuggeX

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Yuke wrote: »

Dear ZoS, im begging you, give us Dragonknights a gap closer that works. Fiery Grip doesnt work - no, its even totally messed up, due to the fact that it ignores Z-axis. Nothing happens when your target stands > 1 meter above or below you.

I know that you guys dont care rightnow, because of the imminent console release. But please consider a skill revamp when you are finally done with the console release.

We DKs cant use weapon ability gap closer in the 1.6. meta, because they are too expensive. Our defense is blocking, which costs stamina as well, we cant waste stamina for gapclosing and we shouldnt be forced to waste our champion points in the cost reduction tree for stamina abilities, only because there is no class ability gap closer that actually works (since beta btw).

Please help us. We suffered enough (or at least give us a statement about that issue).

We have a ton, dragon leap, chains which works poorly and randomly and is really messed up in PVE as even in flat places like sanctum it bugs out on the elevation calculation, also the same 2 everyone has from weapons. I'd rather have an escape button like ball lightning or dark cloak.

No to escape skill, we have a lot survive skills, a escape skill would make dk to op.
But Dk Need rly other Stamina Morphs, we have 2 Stamina Morph and both are just dots, witch get purged everytime.
my choice would be molten wipe as stamina moprh or Stone fist

Bfish22090

Extended chains is a great gap closer

TheSunAlsoRises

am i the only one who is ok with not every class have an easy gap closer? i mean on my DK i do have to resort to charge on 2h or 1h/shield but i'm ok with it.

EDIT: also maybe they should just fix the chain so it doesn't bug out.

TheSunAlsoRises

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Extended chains is a great gap closer

i remember during beta/release being pulled from walls by sieging DKs and that was a much deadlier tool than any other class's "gap closer" because now you had their entire raid beating on you. this doesn't happen now? i have not really seen this in the limited PvP i've done since coming back..

BuggeX

TheSunAlsoRises wrote: »

am i the only one who is ok with not every class have an easy gap closer? i mean on my DK i do have to resort to charge on 2h or 1h/shield but i'm ok with it.

EDIT: also maybe they should just fix the chain so it doesn't bug out.

the Problem on dk is, he doesnt have range skills, all skills are under 10m. We rly Need a charge

Varicite

Hrm, are we making all the classes the same now?

Sorcs need heals, then. NBs need shields, heals and roots. Templar needs roots, an escape, and CC. DKs will also be needing an escape move on top of this gap closer you want.

Make it happen.

Bashev

Varicite wrote: »

Hrm, are we making all the classes the same now?

Sorcs need heals, then. NBs need shields, heals and roots. Templar needs roots, an escape, and CC. DKs will also be needing an escape move on top of this gap closer you want.

Make it happen.

Our gap closer was really unique and nice skill in pvp and pve before the nerf. Now so many players stay on the wall without a risk. This wasn't the case in the launch. Everybody was afraid that he will be pulled down.
The worst part is that if there is only a small difference in the Z axis the skill doesn't work.

BuggeX

Wy does NB Need a root if he has a fear?

Bfish22090

I use crit rush and invasion, take flight and extended chains. Those all work well.

BuggeX

Bashev wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Hrm, are we making all the classes the same now?

Sorcs need heals, then. NBs need shields, heals and roots. Templar needs roots, an escape, and CC. DKs will also be needing an escape move on top of this gap closer you want.

Make it happen.

Our gap closer was really unique and nice skill in pvp and pve before the nerf. Now so many players stay on the wall without a risk. This wasn't the case in the launch. Everybody was afraid that he will be pulled down.
The worst part is that if there is only a small difference in the Z axis the skill doesn't work.

agree, just a empty Animation like he is jerking off....

Varicite

BuggeX wrote: »

Wy does NB Need a root if he has a fear?

Fear is like the exact opposite of a root... Root is soft CC that stops players from moving and never gives CC immunity.

Fear is a hard CC that makes players run away and gives CC immunity.

But you know that, of coruse. You're just trying to turn this into another NB whine thread like every other thread you post in.

Davadin

Armitas wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

dk Need a lot of rework imho

Yep,

• They took fiery grip and made it a gamble that it works, and a gamble that it will work in the right direction
• They took flames of oblivion which no one slotted and replaced it with a skill that is like mage light, only mage light is better so now it's still not slotted. (FYI the 20% crit is a bug, it's actually 10%)
• Sea of flames... what the heck is this, I don't even?
• They added 50 ultimate to banner cause of PvP...and yet...meteor...
• They screwed up igneous weapons by making it better and then giving it an intolerable maintenance attached to a class with an already high dot maintenance.
• They screwed up molten weapons by giving us a decent execute, that requires the activation of the skill and then the full charge of a heavy attack before it does anything. Meanwhile everyone else has automatic and instant executes.
• Then they removed the miss chance on cinderstorm because they wanted to do away with miss, even though they could have replaced it with dodge.

The only thing I'm really happy with is the change to razor armor, dragon leap, and if I were stamina corrosive armor. The major changes were major flops, they just completely missed the mark and left us with the changes for months.

QFT.

But hey, I'm done complaining with my 2H setup.....

Yuke

Wow, seems no1 is even reading the first post.

Take Flight is an Ultimate, so not a reliable gapcloser.

Crit Rush and Invasion cost over 3k Stamina -> not reliable gap closer considering having only 11k stamina with regfood.

Extended *** chains DONT WORK.

Whats wrong with you people?!

BuggeX

Varicite wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Wy does NB Need a root if he has a fear?

Fear is like the exact opposite of a root... Root is soft CC that stops players from moving and never gives CC immunity.

Fear is a hard CC that makes players run away and gives CC immunity.

But you know that, of coruse. You're just trying to turn this into another NB whine thread like every other thread you post in.

Ofc i know,

and you try to buff the nb in every thread you post in...but w/e we arent here for nb

Davadin

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I use crit rush and invasion, take flight and extended chains. Those all work well.

stamina, stamina, ultimate, and magicka.

oh and the 2 stamina is from 2 different weapon skill tree.


it works, but it doesn't work well.

we need a solid gap-closer, preferably magicka since stam build have their weapons closer.

and re-tweak those stuff they tweaked last time. talons is worthless now unless ur in a zerg. same goes with banner who got a ridicolous cost now. and they screwed my igneous weapon and molten is limited for folks who got heavy-attack on their rotation.

and what happend to the escape skill? do we even have one?

no we don't. we only have tanking capabilities.


not sure if ZOS knows the difference between defensive skills vs escape skills.

(granted, 1 is geared toward pve and the other toward pvp)

BuggeX

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I use crit rush and invasion, take flight and extended chains. Those all work well.

crit rush works fine

Invasion is sometimes Bugy and you get stuck and cant move anymore

take flight is sometimes bugy and he take a looong dump

chain is rly tricky,
1) you can dogge the chain
2) you can block the chain
3) you can even reflect the chain
4) its bugy


edit

Davadin wrote: »

and what happend to the escape skill? do we even have one?

no we don't. we only have tanking capabilities.

I rly hope dk doesnt get a escape like boltescape or somthing. We have reflect/shild/heal/root/and slow
if we get also a escape the flame would be strong. But we Need a working Charge

Davadin

BuggeX wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

I use crit rush and invasion, take flight and extended chains. Those all work well.

crit rush works fine

Invasion is sometimes Bugy and you get stuck and cant move anymore

take flight is sometimes bugy and he take a looong dump

chain is rly tricky,
1) you can dogge the chain
2) you can block the chain
3) you can even reflect the chain
4) its bugy

off-topic. i'm using stampede now. really good as the snare is always the same value, while crit rush sometimes i dont get such a bonus since im fightin closer range.

Varicite

BuggeX wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Wy does NB Need a root if he has a fear?

Fear is like the exact opposite of a root... Root is soft CC that stops players from moving and never gives CC immunity.

Fear is a hard CC that makes players run away and gives CC immunity.

But you know that, of coruse. You're just trying to turn this into another NB whine thread like every other thread you post in.

Ofc i know,

and you try to buff the nb in every thread you post in...but w/e we arent here for nb

Would love to see you quote me doing that in ANY thread I've posted in post 1.6, because that just hasn't happened. Ever.

But back on topic...

Yuke wrote: »

Crit Rush and Invasion cost over 3k Stamina

My Crit Rush costs 1700 stamina, I'm not sure what you're basing your numbers off of. Are you talking about using the ability w/out even taking the 20% cost reduction passive in that weapon line or anything else?

Sensesfail13

Im alright with no gap close, no execute, and no ranged abilities as long as they rehash our survivability and cc skills BACK to what they were pre nerf dk's into oblivion era.
A lot of the balance was just tossed into the air with tamriel unlimited ( I picture a kid stomping through a lego castle tossing pieces every which way for unwary travelers to step on at a later date ) and need to be addressed as we move forward... even before the console release or it will be another release like the PC release, an awesome game, not adjusted correctly, fails to impress consumers, consumers move on to bigger and better things. ( and on a side note, it is a LOT easier for console players to move on to other games, that is what consoles were meant for at least imho )