Risk vs Reward “Vet DSA/Dungeons vs Farming”

Kallipsoe

I was ignorant in believing that running veteran content “DSA/Dungeons” and questing was the most efficient way to get gold, equipment and to level CP points. Man, was I wrong!

I decided to do some tests and started with Veteran DSA; it took us almost three hours to complete veteran DSA. During that time I lost 2k gold from what I started with and did not receive a V14 item until completing round 9! “I have not been able to sell a V13 anything in about a month now in my guild store; with guild trader in Craglorn and Wayrest”. In the end I received a master crafted restro staff that seemed subpar once I really looked at what I would lose by equipping it. In the end everything from the DSA run was nothing more than vendor trash. This was not my first run through Vet DSA and I have never walked away with anything other than an accomplished feeling for completing it. Also I received one CP point from the run.

Next I decided to farm in an undisclosed area for three hours “its undisclosed otherwise all Zos would see in this post is, we must nerf this area!” Without enlightenment I received two and a half champion points and made well over 15k in gold, not even counting all the material that actually sells in the guild trader. After all was said in done I made well over 30k gold with guild trader sells.

Farming is mind numbing and boring, but it is clearly the best option for advancing your character. I find little reason to do Vet DSA or vet Dungeons anymore. At first they were fun but now I realize I’m practically back peddling while I’m doing them.

Suggestions:

Increase the rewards from the Pledges! More Gold! More Experience! Add V14 versions of Armor and weapons that is not currently available at V14.

Add a daily quest for DSA that gives a large amount of gold and experience for completing the arena.

Instead of Master Crafted Weapons just give us the enchantment so we can apply it to the weapon of choice. Currently these weapons are as good as or worse than what we already have, it should be an upgrade!

Give V14 armor and equipment starting at round 6 of veteran DSA.

End game gear should not have Exploration, Sturdy, Training or Well-Fitted! When you finally get Valkyn Skoria's helm to drop it should be a clear upgrade, not "well if I equip this I'm trading spell damage for a meteor chance and loosing magic because I lost the Infused/divines trait for Sturdy". Jewelry that does not sell for anything should not have ornate on it, that’s right I’m talking about “The Charged Poop” from CoA.

Last, stop nerfing grind spots and instead buff challenging content! If it was more rewarding to run pledges, trials and DSA, players would choose this over farming.

SanderBuraas

Agree with every suggested solution you provide. The end game content is simply not rewarding enough.

sigsergv

Glyph with unique enchantment - is a really great idea!

Dymence

I guess it depends on your own group aswell. If you take 3 hours to complete veteran DSA, you're doing something seriously wrong. The average run takes around an hour and 15 mins, good runs around an hour. That's from my own experience, at least.

I think if you would improve yourself and the people you play with would do the same, the situation of vet dsa vs grinding would already change to look a lot better.

Psychobunni

I would only add instead of just a huge lump for completion, up rewards per level of DSA. Yes, as someone stated the best groups can do it fast. However there are boatloads of players that play how they want and not min/max and it is going to take them hours if they even complete it. I'm not saying raise rewards so high people just grind it, but make it more worth it for all who take part.

Dymence

Psychobunni wrote: »

I would only add instead of just a huge lump for completion, up rewards per level of DSA. Yes, as someone stated the best groups can do it fast. However there are boatloads of players that play how they want and not min/max and it is going to take them hours if they even complete it. I'm not saying raise rewards so high people just grind it, but make it more worth it for all who take part.

As many have said before me, you can play how you want but that doesn't mean you'll succeed at it. I don't think endgame content should be catered towards the RP part of the community.

Psychobunni

It's not "catering". If it takes them hours, then thats their choice of how they play. Oddly enough, even fantasy land not everyone wants to be the same snowflake. To some enjoying playing comes from doing it outside the box...The mere fact that they have to work harder to succeed and not simply face roll through should be punishment enough.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO

Vet mobs give complete crap exp.
Bosses aren't really that worth killing if they have above 100k health due to them giving "Marked mob" type of exp (700 - 1k)
THere's extra exp difference between humanoid mobs that are annoying to heal especially with archer + mage + mender/healer compared to beast mobs that just charge at you.

Why do dungeons boss not have special set based on their name? Like Jealous Husbando set for killing the husband in Crypt of Heart instead of just hoping for shoulder from pledge box.

Why can't boss be worth killing?

WHY CAN'T VET MOBS GIVE MORE THAN 150 EXP IN DUNGEONS?

Farming is usually 50-60% faster especially when multiple dungeon run can also be considered as farming but it's so crazy that 99% of the content, outside VR14 drops, this game minimum gain is like, 3x below compared to other MMO games.

And I would say 10k gold and 350k exp per hour isn't really a nerf-worthy. There's a lot of location for that unless you're an unlucky Ebonheart player(like me) who stuck with "Crappy Grind March" as the V10 map where you have no real location to pull and a bunch of boring humanoid mobs.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Welcome to real world op

Kallipsoe

Dymence wrote: »

I guess it depends on your own group aswell. If you take 3 hours to complete veteran DSA, you're doing something seriously wrong. The average run takes around an hour and 15 mins, good runs around an hour. That's from my own experience, at least.

I think if you would improve yourself and the people you play with would do the same, the situation of vet dsa vs grinding would already change to look a lot better.

@Dymence If you can complete veteran DSA in one hour and thirty minutes than it simply is not challenging content to you anymore. Its not because you and your group or super star players or have the best gear in the game. It is simply because you know the fights and everyone knows how to react instinctively. Just like Vet CoA was challenging to me the first few times I ran it, my group can now clear it in less than 30 minutes without a death. Its a cakewalk because we know the tricks to all the fights. I imagine once we get the last boss's mechanics figured out in Vet DSA this will be the same.

However, even if it only took one and a half hours to complete I would still only make less than 5k and have two crappy armor/weapon sets that I would have nothing to do with. I would also loose the since of accomplishment, because if its not a challenge anymore. In no situation in this game is vet DSA or any veteran content more rewarding than grinding!

Kallipsoe

Psychobunni wrote: »

I would only add instead of just a huge lump for completion, up rewards per level of DSA. Yes, as someone stated the best groups can do it fast. However there are boatloads of players that play how they want and not min/max and it is going to take them hours if they even complete it. I'm not saying raise rewards so high people just grind it, but make it more worth it for all who take part.

@Psychobunni I agree and that is exactly the reason I suggested that there be a daily DSA quest. You would only get the reward once per day in order to prevent it from being farmed from elitist.

Yinmaigao

Dymence wrote: »

I guess it depends on your own group aswell. If you take 3 hours to complete veteran DSA, you're doing something seriously wrong. The average run takes around an hour and 15 mins, good runs around an hour. That's from my own experience, at least.

I think if you would improve yourself and the people you play with would do the same, the situation of vet dsa vs grinding would already change to look a lot better.

I think you are missing the point... Even with "subpar skills and equipment" the balance falls heavily in favor of farming vs. dungeon running in terms of gold per hr.

"Up the ante" by having an optimized skillset, and the pendulum swings even further in favor of grinding mobs for trash drops/leather scraps (wax!) and the incidental drops.

With a lack of effective "sanctioned" activities at Vet14, people will tend to gravitate towards higher risk-vs-reward activities.

Bouvin

Don't expect any fixes until Console players are V14 and complaining.

So at least a few months for the majority of them.

Yinmaigao

Bouvin wrote: »

Don't expect any fixes until Console players are V14 and complaining.

So at least a few months for the majority of them.

Ugh, why do people just keep saying this?

While it may be true, what does mentioning it solve?

As long as people are constructive and respectful in their threads, I think it speaks volumes to ZoS that the community has issues with the direction the game is (or, is not) going.

Drazhar14

I prefer "undisclosed area" too

Faugaun

A real example ...yesterday on my vr1 I was killing mobs 10xp per mob...(they were level 46 mobs)...but I needed the so from the content....anyways yeah so I level to 50 then my characters stop progressing. VR is too slow and tedious (more so than in January). There are no instanced exp that I have found that provide effective advancement. My friends and I have been doing the dungeons lately to get those sp and with enlightenment and a fresh character that has not done the quest you can get about 80% of a cp per dungeon run but the bulk of that is from the quest ...this is scaled to vr1-3 with toons vr 1-5. I might clear all mobs in a dungeon and only get 30k exp.

I keep hoping vr will be removed because I am not finding the motivation to put a second toon through the vr ranks. I still have a blast with other aspects of the game but there is zero incentive to level beyond vr1....as best we know vr will be removed, the trip from vr1-vr14 is at the slowest pace it has ever been in this game.

zeitzbachrwb17_ESO

Problem with this game scaling is that mobs scale after a certain mark (Vet 1 and Vet 11) and instead of focusing on making them stronger to keep up with the players or using new mechanics, the game decide to reduce the reward instead.

You start at 1.5k per kill
THen you go in vet and it becomes 150. Okay. *4 health too.
Then you get to vet 11 and it becomes *7 health. Same exp.
And vet 12 mobs drops to 400 exp per kills instead of the usual 500 exp per kill from vet 1 to vet 10.

:v

golfer.dub17_ESO

Dungeons give a lot of purple items, and some have a chance at getting valuable, unbound drops like neck of adroitness.

Dragonstar Arena on the other hand...mobs only drop gold and you get a small chance at a few decent blue sets that no one wants to buy and a smaller chance at a master weapon. What's the point?

vladimilianoub17_ESO1

Awesome post.Agree with all.The master glyph ,awesome idea and yeah boost end content xp for F. sake.Is stupid that you want to progress your character at end game and the most reliable way to do it is the most boring of all activities.

DDuke

Why is Hunding's Rage (crafted in 5 minutes by anyone) better for DPS than Vicious Ophidian (takes countless of hours to put together a full set, dealing with highest difficulty content or being in top 2% of PvP leaderboard)?

Why is everything else that drops in Trials simply abysmal, when compared to crafted gear or BoE PvP rewards that you can buy with gold that can be grinded in a few hours (or worse, bought from a gold seller)?


There is a serious lack of incentive for doing end game raiding, make no mistake about it.

Dymence

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I guess it depends on your own group aswell. If you take 3 hours to complete veteran DSA, you're doing something seriously wrong. The average run takes around an hour and 15 mins, good runs around an hour. That's from my own experience, at least.

I think if you would improve yourself and the people you play with would do the same, the situation of vet dsa vs grinding would already change to look a lot better.

I think you are missing the point... Even with "subpar skills and equipment" the balance falls heavily in favor of farming vs. dungeon running in terms of gold per hr.

"Up the ante" by having an optimized skillset, and the pendulum swings even further in favor of grinding mobs for trash drops/leather scraps (wax!) and the incidental drops.

With a lack of effective "sanctioned" activities at Vet14, people will tend to gravitate towards higher risk-vs-reward activities.

It's not all about gold per hour though. You can have as much gold as you want, but you'll never be able to buy that master weapon that you want. It gives people a time sink with something to do. While I wouldn't mind having these 'master enchantments', it would quickly make the content as obsolete as the OP already claims it is.

Right now vet DSA is worth running. You get decent XP, chances at a good master weapon and most importantly:

it's fun to do.

Kallipsoe

Dymence wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I guess it depends on your own group aswell. If you take 3 hours to complete veteran DSA, you're doing something seriously wrong. The average run takes around an hour and 15 mins, good runs around an hour. That's from my own experience, at least.

I think if you would improve yourself and the people you play with would do the same, the situation of vet dsa vs grinding would already change to look a lot better.

I think you are missing the point... Even with "subpar skills and equipment" the balance falls heavily in favor of farming vs. dungeon running in terms of gold per hr.

"Up the ante" by having an optimized skillset, and the pendulum swings even further in favor of grinding mobs for trash drops/leather scraps (wax!) and the incidental drops.

With a lack of effective "sanctioned" activities at Vet14, people will tend to gravitate towards higher risk-vs-reward activities.

It's not all about gold per hour though. You can have as much gold as you want, but you'll never be able to buy that master weapon that you want. It gives people a time sink with something to do. While I wouldn't mind having these 'master enchantments', it would quickly make the content as obsolete as the OP already claims it is.

Right now vet DSA is worth running. You get decent XP, chances at a good master weapon and most importantly:

it's fun to do.

The only thing Vet DSA has going for it is that it is fun to do. But what is not fun is running it and not receiving anything rewarding from it. The "master weapons" are lack luster at best, they are by no means an upgrade to most builds. In most cases players will loose a set buff and weapon enchantment to get an enchant buff that in the end most likely is not an upgrade. For example, I loose 179 spell power from my set bonus and its enchantment of causing X Damage and return X magica for an increase in magica and having one spell give players some extra stamina on the first tick. This is just changing my build a little, it is by no means an upgrade to my build.

I want the game to be challenging, I enjoy the challenge I just want better rewards for the time I and other players put into it. If the master weapons were true upgrades I would not of made this post. I would be running Vet DSA right now trying to get one, but they are not. Challenging content should have great reward, and if you do not get the great reward on the first one or twenty times at least make it worth or time until we get the item we seek.

Dymence

Kallipsoe wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I guess it depends on your own group aswell. If you take 3 hours to complete veteran DSA, you're doing something seriously wrong. The average run takes around an hour and 15 mins, good runs around an hour. That's from my own experience, at least.

I think if you would improve yourself and the people you play with would do the same, the situation of vet dsa vs grinding would already change to look a lot better.

I think you are missing the point... Even with "subpar skills and equipment" the balance falls heavily in favor of farming vs. dungeon running in terms of gold per hr.

"Up the ante" by having an optimized skillset, and the pendulum swings even further in favor of grinding mobs for trash drops/leather scraps (wax!) and the incidental drops.

With a lack of effective "sanctioned" activities at Vet14, people will tend to gravitate towards higher risk-vs-reward activities.

It's not all about gold per hour though. You can have as much gold as you want, but you'll never be able to buy that master weapon that you want. It gives people a time sink with something to do. While I wouldn't mind having these 'master enchantments', it would quickly make the content as obsolete as the OP already claims it is.

Right now vet DSA is worth running. You get decent XP, chances at a good master weapon and most importantly:

it's fun to do.

The only thing Vet DSA has going for it is that it is fun to do. But what is not fun is running it and not receiving anything rewarding from it. The "master weapons" are lack luster at best, they are by no means an upgrade to most builds. In most cases players will loose a set buff and weapon enchantment to get an enchant buff that in the end most likely is not an upgrade. For example, I loose 179 spell power from my set bonus and its enchantment of causing X Damage and return X magica for an increase in magica and having one spell give players some extra stamina on the first tick. This is just changing my build a little, it is by no means an upgrade to my build.

I want the game to be challenging, I enjoy the challenge I just want better rewards for the time I and other players put into it. If the master weapons were true upgrades I would not of made this post. I would be running Vet DSA right now trying to get one, but they are not. Challenging content should have great reward, and if you do not get the great reward on the first one or twenty times at least make it worth or time until we get the item we seek.

That depends very strongly on your role and class. If master weapons were truly so poor and not an upgrade, I would not still be chasing the ever eluding master inferno staff in sharpened. My build has a weapon slot open and the extra 1k magicka the staff gives is just amazing.

PBpsy

So apparently the rewards in endgame pve suck and ZOS usually tries to make them suck even more.and that's is a new development.
In other news guar farts taste like chicken.

Kerioko

I find I don't have any problem making decent gold and xp from VDSA. I run it 3-5 times a week, and it takes about an hour and a half at most. I usually will get 2 CP after a run if I am enlightened, and I guess RNG likes me because I am always getting v14 healer items that still sell for a decent amount. On good weeks (5-6 runs where I get a healer jewelry piece each run) I can make around 150K gold and around 10-12 CP in 6-8 hours of actual play time.

Aside from this, I will agree that running trials is a huge waste of time being that all gear is bound and is mediocre compared to most other armor sets. Farming chests and grinding AP is cyrodiil is a far better use of time than wasting it on running daily trials. As far as daily vet dungeons, they are meaningful to get the 6% passive unlocked, and to get a set of each dungeon armor in good traits....but after about 50 runs, they become quite stale and pointless.

idk

It may be hard to believe, but ESO has improved the risk v reward of end game content from what it was previously, including DSA. With that DSA has the best RvR being that it has usable set bonuses and a chance at a master weapon. DSA is the only one they got right.

Ivalice

Go into Vet DSA or even Reg DSA with enlightenment and see how many champion points you get. and you can't run vet dsa without expecting to pay for a little repairing.

Kallipsoe

Ivalice wrote: »

Go into Vet DSA or even Reg DSA with enlightenment and see how many champion points you get. and you can't run vet dsa without expecting to pay for a little repairing.

Yes, if I am fully enlightened I would come out of DSA with 2 champion points. However if I was fully enlightened while farming I would come out with even more champion points. I have no problem coming out of DSA or any other vet content with a little repairing, the point is the players should come out with something more than just a repair bill and vendor trash. End game content should be hard and it should also be rewarding. There should be an epic reward you only have a small chance at getting "master weapons, but they need to be a little better to stand out" and then consolation prizes for the 20x you run it with no reward in order to provide an incentive to keep running it even after you get that epic item you want.

Farorin

I completely agree, if they don't want people to continue to try and farm and grind areas, then they need to change the endgame content, and repeatale content to something more worthwhile. It is sincerely terrible. i am at the stage now wheer I log on and kinda go.... well, what the hell can I do now? So I just grind out a few repeatable quests, maybe play some broken PVP, then cry a little bit after dying inside.

King Bozo

Sounds to me you guys are bored with a lot of the pve content like me. I just started pvp about 3 months ago and rarely do PvE only when needed to help someone out. Join a good pvp guild that runs a lot you just might like it.

Artemiisia

thats not really the problem, the problem is now we have not seen new content in 8 months, that means everyone have had 8 months to get their gear, that means end-game gear slowly becomes obsolete more and more each day.

and the prices of those gear goes either down each day, or just sits in guild traders because people still think they can sell erm for those prices even though they aint rare anymore.

Just check a few of these

footman vr14 ring
ring of the healer v14 ring

the traders have 100s of them.

If you really wanna make real gold, you will have to wait for the new map, and hope there really are something worth farming and go for it.