Alternative to ground oil

saintmurray

Ground oil was amazing. It let small groups defend keeps and now that we don't have dk vampires generating batts every 2 seconds I don't see why we can't have it back. However in the spirit of making the oil more believable, why cant we have a directional oil? Say and oil bucket that can be tipped only forwards in a cone. It would make keep breach defence excellent. Not to mention it would be "realistic" for all the people who like "immersion" and play in "first person".

SoulScream

I would like to squish em with a ram and drive it in first person view.

Agrippa_Invisus

I still think ground oils was a flawed mechanic.

I think it's time to strengthen guards again so that they're an actual threat and can be useful for smaller forces to defend themselves in a keep. Up their HPs, damage, and attack speed.

There were just waaaaaaay too many abuses for ground oil. Do you /really/ want Crystalized invisibat oiling again?

saintmurray

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I still think ground oils was a flawed mechanic.

I think it's time to strengthen guards again so that they're an actual threat and can be useful for smaller forces to defend themselves in a keep. Up their HPs, damage, and attack speed.

There were just waaaaaaay too many abuses for ground oil. Do you /really/ want Crystalized invisibat oiling again?

That's what I'm saying. "Infinite" batts isn't a thing anymore so why is it a problem? There were plenty of people who were able to do it. Myself included. But with ulti gen handy capped everyone has a chance. Plus with this idea you would just simply walk behind said player on oil to attack them?

Agrippa_Invisus

saintmurray wrote: »

show previous quotes

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I still think ground oils was a flawed mechanic.

I think it's time to strengthen guards again so that they're an actual threat and can be useful for smaller forces to defend themselves in a keep. Up their HPs, damage, and attack speed.

There were just waaaaaaay too many abuses for ground oil. Do you /really/ want Crystalized invisibat oiling again?

That's what I'm saying. "Infinite" batts isn't a thing anymore so why is it a problem? There were plenty of people who were able to do it. Myself included. But with ulti gen handy capped everyone has a chance. Plus with this idea you would just simply walk behind said player on oil to attack them?

There's just other ways to go about it.

The oil around every corner got old fast.

For keeps, outposts, and resources -- more and better guards. Put archer guards on the third floor of large keeps and add more patrols to the courtyards of all keeps. Make the guards hit much harder and give them better survivability. Suddenly you'll be able to defend more with less.

Weaken Purge. Make it remove only one effect at a time or increase its cost greatly to prevent the purge spamming from negating other forms of siege.

You could create a new siege type - a Rolling Bale. It could run forward in a line, causing large amounts of fire damage (cuz it's a giant bale of tinder you cover in pitch and set on fire - classic tactic in keep defense). These could be allowed to roll down steps and would fill the role ground oil did without being a point blank AOE like oil, allowing people to get behind the operator and kill him without getting oiled.

And so on.

saintmurray

I totally agree with the nerf purge statement. That skill is a flawed mechanic.

Flawlless

Nerf purge and make the game mindless siege vs siege even more than it already is? No thanks.

vortexman11

In my opinion nerfing purge is not the answer to anything, it would hurt small groups just as much as it would hurt large groups if not more.

ThyIronFist

The ground oil fix and purgable oil catapult all caters towards the zerg, an outnumbered group defending a choke point will eventually get overrun my little nabs with no skill - all they have to do is PURGEPURGEPURGEhealPURGEheallPURGEPURGEhealhealPURGEPURGEPURGE.

You're playing a game with magic fireballs, people zapping through the fields, people with spiked razer armour, vampire argonians wearing a dress - and people dare to complain about ground oil "because hur dur it's not realistic".

Revert oil catapult changes, bring meatbag healing reduction back to where it was. Then we'll see the meaning of a "choke point".

The whole bloody point is that if an enemy is holding a choke point, either make more holes in a keep or get counter siege up. But we don't need that boys, all we need is a large group and purge spammers.

RIP ground oil, was fun when it lasted

Draxys

I think ground oils can come back with a couple changes: they take up as much "siege space" as a ballista so that you can't have 50 of them in a tower, and the directional idea isn't bad. Still effective for keep defense and could help resist the zergen.

Hektlk

Stronger guards would literally just make the zerging worse, since smaller groups would no longer be able to handle keep takes.

Agrippa_Invisus

Hektlk wrote: »

Stronger guards would literally just make the zerging worse, since smaller groups would no longer be able to handle keep takes.

The guards are pathetic at the moment. Less than useless.

Keeps were designed to be 8-12 man encounters and currently can be handled by four pretty easily.*


*Assuming no outside interference.

krim

Again... Theres is possibly nothing you can change that will not strengthen zergs. 100 people beats 90 people, 80 beats 70, 60 beats 50 assuming = skill. What you can do is change(revert) ultimate gain to give the smaller groups a fighting chance again. Then say you have a group of 30 regular players vs a group of 8-10 solid players they might even be able to win and hold their own again. And we are not talking about open field but choke points like keeps outpost bridges mile gates.

vortexman11

krim wrote: »

Again... Theres is possibly nothing you can change that will not strengthen zergs. 100 people beats 90 people, 80 beats 70, 60 beats 50 assuming = skill. What you can do is change(revert) ultimate gain to give the smaller groups a fighting chance again. Then say you have a group of 30 regular players vs a group of 8-10 solid players they might even be able to win and hold their own again. And we are not talking about open field but choke points like keeps outpost bridges mile gates.

Just like the amazing post I made a few weeks ago said

But of course I got shot down for supporting the people that used to chain spam batswarm over and over and over and over and over because of the silly players that loved clumping up on them giving them endless heals and ultimate

People seem to enjoy this new stale way of ultimate gain, where everyone gets the same amount simply by using a light attack. Its unrewarding and just plain boring. The fact that each person in a group of 40 people can gain ultimate just as quickly as each person in a group of 10 people is stupid. Sure it'll bring back unkillable vampire batswarm spammers (no it wont because that skills been nerfed to the ground and with siege damage now...) but the counter to them would be TO SPREAD THE **** OUT

Cody

ground oil was ridiculous. I hated it. I thought it was a cheap way to get cheap kills, I was glad to see it removed.

do what Agrippa said and make the keep guards stronger. Idk about nerfing purge... but definitely improve keep guards.

vortexman11

Cody wrote: »

ground oil was ridiculous. I hated it. I thought it was a cheap way to get cheap kills, I was glad to see it removed.

do what Agrippa said and make the keep guards stronger. Idk about nerfing purge... but definitely improve keep guards.

Maybe they should buff that nice Mage AoE and make it unblockable as it used to be

Huntler

People wanting to nerf purge.... SMH, I just don't understand your line of logic.

vortexman11

Huntler wrote: »

People wanting to nerf purge.... SMH, I just don't understand your line of logic.

I'd rather have them keep purge how it is, but put that bug with ground AoEs back in the game...just another unpopular opinion I guess...

Lesspa

I think the obvious course of action here is to allow mounted combat.

But seriously, this would be a bad idea. It would be used by large groups to make THEM even stronger.

There are plenty of spots currently to use siege in a keep defense.

Sanct16

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

show previous quotes

saintmurray wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I still think ground oils was a flawed mechanic.

I think it's time to strengthen guards again so that they're an actual threat and can be useful for smaller forces to defend themselves in a keep. Up their HPs, damage, and attack speed.

There were just waaaaaaay too many abuses for ground oil. Do you /really/ want Crystalized invisibat oiling again?

That's what I'm saying. "Infinite" batts isn't a thing anymore so why is it a problem? There were plenty of people who were able to do it. Myself included. But with ulti gen handy capped everyone has a chance. Plus with this idea you would just simply walk behind said player on oil to attack them?

There's just other ways to go about it.

The oil around every corner got old fast.

For keeps, outposts, and resources -- more and better guards. Put archer guards on the third floor of large keeps and add more patrols to the courtyards of all keeps. Make the guards hit much harder and give them better survivability. Suddenly you'll be able to defend more with less.

Weaken Purge. Make it remove only one effect at a time or increase its cost greatly to prevent the purge spamming from negating other forms of siege.

You could create a new siege type - a Rolling Bale. It could run forward in a line, causing large amounts of fire damage (cuz it's a giant bale of tinder you cover in pitch and set on fire - classic tactic in keep defense). These could be allowed to roll down steps and would fill the role ground oil did without being a point blank AOE like oil, allowing people to get behind the operator and kill him without getting oiled.

And so on.

Could bring back npc merchants. they could be used as a strategic tool to offer better defense.

Dositheus

To fight the whole zerg thing, one of the ideas I'd thought of before would be to give the lightning balista a "static charge" effect. Where basically each person hit by it, would produce an aoe around them damaging friendly players with X amount of damage. And they would all stack. So if 30 of them were all balled up, they'd be taking a *** ton of ticks of damage. And make it unpurgable. If it hits 1 person... meh. 2 people, they may feel it and move apart. 3 people, and it starts getting a little annoying. But it keeps getting worse the more people you have stacked together. Even something as low as.. say 300 damage/tick. 1 player would just auto heal it. 4 players, would be taking 1200 a tick, and probably think about moving apart. But wouldn't really have to. 10 players? 3k a tick would get old fast, and they'd move. 20 players would be taking 6k ticks, and would spread out. And just make it a 10 meter aura around each player for the duration. Say, 6 seconds or 8 seconds. You wouldn't even need a heavy initial damage.