Sooo If I like Magicka Skills I HAVE to use a Staff?

Vaerth

I like the class skills for my NightBlade such as Dark Path, Swallow Soul, Sap Essence, etc but I am told if I go this route that I will have to use a staff, and that I can not use a 2H on both bars effectively...

Is this true? Do I really need to use a staff if I want to simply wield a 2H for basic / heavy strikes?

Let me also be sure to add that this is a build that would us ALL class skills, no weapon skills.

DschiPeunt

If you only use the weapon for light/heavy attacks and don't want to use any weapon skill, you can use any weapon you like.

Vaerth

DschiPeunt wrote: »

If you only use the weapon for light/heavy attacks and don't want to use any weapon skill, you can use any weapon you like.

That would be my desired style, because a few of my skills would be melee range. My goal was to make a Shadow Knight style character. I currently us a full medium armor Stamina NightBlade but I miss skills like Sap Essence, Swallow Soul, Crippling Grasp, etc. I wanted to do 5 Heavy and 2 Light. All attribute points in Magicka and all glyphs for Magicka.

Shunravi

no, I'd say goo for it. 2h grants spell damage too. You just won't be able to regen magica from heavy attacks. But you are a nightblade, so just get siphoning attacks and regen from all attacks.

UPrime

If you use ALL class skills then no, you technically don't need a staff, but you're not able to use destruction and healing staff abilities which of course synergies with magicka build.

Of the top of my head I don't remember if weapon or staff basic attacks stack off stam/magicka or if they're still separate.

So in generally if the above is true you're still viable, just not optimal, and you have less options since you're forgoing to magicka weapon skill lines.

If you plan to mix in non staff abilities, then you're decreasing total dmg output and you'll lag behind others. Not a big deal if you're soloing, but in PvP or Vet Dungeons you're be struggling to the point of not being fun.

BuggeX

This is Teso, do wath you want and like you want. If you dont mind to lose min/max w/e?

edit: I play sometimes my alt. Mele Sorcerer "battlemage" heavy armor with a big 2h hammer with both Stamina and Magica Focus. Using Weapon Skills and Class Skills. Ist not effektiv but its much fun.

technohic

Everything we told you in the Templar thread you started applies here. If you are not using the spells specifically for destro or resto staff and don't need the range of their light and heavy attacks; you actually are better off with 2 handers or dual wield. Even 1h and shield due to the extra item. Bow I think winds up being about the same.

Vaerth

UPrime wrote: »

If you use ALL class skills then no, you technically don't need a staff, but you're not able to use destruction and healing staff abilities which of course synergies with magicka build.

Of the top of my head I don't remember if weapon or staff basic attacks stack off stam/magicka or if they're still separate.

So in generally if the above is true you're still viable, just not optimal, and you have less options since you're forgoing to magicka weapon skill lines.

If you plan to mix in non staff abilities, then you're decreasing total dmg output and you'll lag behind others. Not a big deal if you're soloing, but in PvP or Vet Dungeons you're be struggling to the point of not being fun.

So you say I am not able to be optimal because i use class skills and not weapon skills? How so? Please explain so I can figure out if it is worth playing how I like or if I should stay with the cookie cutters...

Araxleon

for PVP no you do not.
for PVE yes you will prob need a staff.

Main issue is spell power/max magicka increase you staff attack power
weapon power/max stamina increase you weapons attack power.

so if your magicka using any melee type weapon you loose ALOT of dps with animation canceling.

in PVP this doesnt always matter depending on the build you make since your using it as utility but in PVE if your DPS while... you want the most DPS.

I have used magicka builds with sword/shield and duel wield and it works good using the pasives, utility and the fact that you can get a 2 piece torugs for spell power.

but like I said that 2 piece wont matter in PVE as much.

just to give a numbers example. If your magicka using melee your weapon will hit for like 300-400 compared to the staff being 700-900 vice versa (probably more) works the same vice versa.

Vaerth

technohic wrote: »

Everything we told you in the Templar thread you started applies here. If you are not using the spells specifically for destro or resto staff and don't need the range of their light and heavy attacks; you actually are better off with 2 handers or dual wield. Even 1h and shield due to the extra item. Bow I think winds up being about the same.

But here again one or two people have stated that I can not be more than barely viable. Is that true? Can you not do well in this game without using a staff? If I have all class skills on both bars, will that not work?

Vaerth

Araxleon wrote: »

for PVP no you do not.
for PVE yes you will prob need a staff.

Main issue is spell power/max magicka increase you staff attack power
weapon power/max stamina increase you weapons attack power.

so if your magicka using any melee type weapon you loose ALOT of dps with animation canceling.

in PVP this doesnt always matter depending on the build you make since your using it as utility but in PVE if your DPS while... you want the most DPS.

I have used magicka builds with sword/shield and duel wield and it works good using the pasives, utility and the fact that you can get a 2 piece torugs for spell power.

but like I said that 2 piece wont matter in PVE as much.

just to give a numbers example. If your magicka using melee your weapon will hit for like 300-400 compared to the staff being 700-900 vice versa (probably more) works the same vice versa.

No, I would not be using any WEAPON skills just holding the weapon in my hands lol. I have tested the base damage of weapons from light and heavy attacks, and they do NOT scale off primary attribute.

Shunravi

Vaerth wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Everything we told you in the Templar thread you started applies here. If you are not using the spells specifically for destro or resto staff and don't need the range of their light and heavy attacks; you actually are better off with 2 handers or dual wield. Even 1h and shield due to the extra item. Bow I think winds up being about the same.

But here again one or two people have stated that I can not be more than barely viable. Is that true? Can you not do well in this game without using a staff? If I have all class skills on both bars, will that not work?

If you use all class spells, you will be fine. Maybe not optimal, but fine. And what @technohic said is true. If you use all class skills you are actually better off with 2h or dw.

RazzPitazz

The reasoning behind the suggestion is that the skills in the staff lines use and scale off of magika, while the skills in the other weapon lines use and scale off of stamina.
I think stalf damage now scales with magika as well but not sure (there was a time when they did not?)
The whole idea is effectiveness; to maximize damage and return with the Syphon abilities, you need magika. TO maximize damage with regular weapons and their abilities you need stamina.

UPrime

Vaerth wrote: »

UPrime wrote: »

If you use ALL class skills then no, you technically don't need a staff, but you're not able to use destruction and healing staff abilities which of course synergies with magicka build.

Of the top of my head I don't remember if weapon or staff basic attacks stack off stam/magicka or if they're still separate.

So in generally if the above is true you're still viable, just not optimal, and you have less options since you're forgoing to magicka weapon skill lines.

If you plan to mix in non staff abilities, then you're decreasing total dmg output and you'll lag behind others. Not a big deal if you're soloing, but in PvP or Vet Dungeons you're be struggling to the point of not being fun.

So you say I am not able to be optimal because i use class skills and not weapon skills? How so? Please explain so I can figure out if it is worth playing how I like or if I should stay with the cookie cutters...

it depends on the particular need of the build at the time. For instance for longer fights where you need to regen more Magicka, especially not having 5 light armor you have to use siphoning and in melee. Staff could do it at range without an extra slotted ability.

Force Strike does a great deal of dmg with a range interrupt morph.
Pulsar is still a very good AoE that debuffs max health.
Weakness to Elements reduces a targets spell resistance. Great for boss fights. And morph can return magicka from elemental dmg, but that would mean that most class abilities wouldn't apply though.

It's also easier to weave range normal attacks then melee attacks.

Now that being said, those are minor things. So we're talking about being only a few % from "best". In fact, just going 5 light and 2 heavy armor wise will give you a much bigger impact to DPS then going staff. But if you do that, you might consider going healing staff.

Also nothing says you can't do both, or all 3.

Araxleon

Vaerth wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

for PVP no you do not.
for PVE yes you will prob need a staff.

Main issue is spell power/max magicka increase you staff attack power
weapon power/max stamina increase you weapons attack power.

so if your magicka using any melee type weapon you loose ALOT of dps with animation canceling.

in PVP this doesnt always matter depending on the build you make since your using it as utility but in PVE if your DPS while... you want the most DPS.

I have used magicka builds with sword/shield and duel wield and it works good using the pasives, utility and the fact that you can get a 2 piece torugs for spell power.

but like I said that 2 piece wont matter in PVE as much.

just to give a numbers example. If your magicka using melee your weapon will hit for like 300-400 compared to the staff being 700-900 vice versa (probably more) works the same vice versa.

No, I would not be using any WEAPON skills just holding the weapon in my hands lol. I have tested the base damage of weapons from light and heavy attacks, and they do NOT scale off primary attribute.

idk whats your testing... cuz they do scale... I have a 2H weapon and a staff... my staff hits harder on my magicka build but my 2H weapon hits low. Where on my stamina one my staff hits less.

Araxleon

Araxleon wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

for PVP no you do not.
for PVE yes you will prob need a staff.

Main issue is spell power/max magicka increase you staff attack power
weapon power/max stamina increase you weapons attack power.

so if your magicka using any melee type weapon you loose ALOT of dps with animation canceling.

in PVP this doesnt always matter depending on the build you make since your using it as utility but in PVE if your DPS while... you want the most DPS.

I have used magicka builds with sword/shield and duel wield and it works good using the pasives, utility and the fact that you can get a 2 piece torugs for spell power.

but like I said that 2 piece wont matter in PVE as much.

just to give a numbers example. If your magicka using melee your weapon will hit for like 300-400 compared to the staff being 700-900 vice versa (probably more) works the same vice versa.

No, I would not be using any WEAPON skills just holding the weapon in my hands lol. I have tested the base damage of weapons from light and heavy attacks, and they do NOT scale off primary attribute.

idk whats your testing... cuz they do scale... I have a 2H weapon and a staff... my staff hits harder on my magicka build but my 2H weapon hits low. Where on my stamina one my staff hits less.

its either max magicka or spell power i dont remember but they do scale now xD its not like 1.5 where it was pretty even

technohic

weapon skills and light/heavy attacks do scale off your primary stat, but if you are not going to be doing more than weaving a light attack between spells; you get far more benefit from a 2 hander or dual wield since they give you more spell damage than a staff. Dueal wield also gives you the extra trait and piece toward a set. But keep in mind that you lose the ability to restore your primary pool with heavy attacks as melee heavy restores some stam and staffs restore some magicka.

Shunravi

technohic wrote: »

weapon skills and light/heavy attacks do scale off your primary stat, but if you are not going to be doing more than weaving a light attack between spells; you get far more benefit from a 2 hander or dual wield since they give you more spell damage than a staff. Dueal wield also gives you the extra trait and piece toward a set. But keep in mind that you lose the ability to restore your primary pool with heavy attacks as melee heavy restores some stam and staffs restore some magicka.

Yup. But for the low low price of -16% damage on a toggle, you can easily regen on a Nightblade! (Restrictions apply, check your local listings)

Vaerth

Araxleon wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

for PVP no you do not.
for PVE yes you will prob need a staff.

Main issue is spell power/max magicka increase you staff attack power
weapon power/max stamina increase you weapons attack power.

so if your magicka using any melee type weapon you loose ALOT of dps with animation canceling.

in PVP this doesnt always matter depending on the build you make since your using it as utility but in PVE if your DPS while... you want the most DPS.

I have used magicka builds with sword/shield and duel wield and it works good using the pasives, utility and the fact that you can get a 2 piece torugs for spell power.

but like I said that 2 piece wont matter in PVE as much.

just to give a numbers example. If your magicka using melee your weapon will hit for like 300-400 compared to the staff being 700-900 vice versa (probably more) works the same vice versa.

No, I would not be using any WEAPON skills just holding the weapon in my hands lol. I have tested the base damage of weapons from light and heavy attacks, and they do NOT scale off primary attribute.

idk whats your testing... cuz they do scale... I have a 2H weapon and a staff... my staff hits harder on my magicka build but my 2H weapon hits low. Where on my stamina one my staff hits less.

The light and heavy attacks do the same amount no matter what you focus on. The damage is dependent on weapon level, upgraded level, and enchantment applied.

Vaerth

DschiPeunt wrote: »

If you only use the weapon for light/heavy attacks and don't want to use any weapon skill, you can use any weapon you like.

Is this true or false?

DOES the weapon damage of LIGHT and HEAVY attacks (left clicks) damage apply to Stamina/Magicka or does it not?

Shunravi

Vaerth wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

If you only use the weapon for light/heavy attacks and don't want to use any weapon skill, you can use any weapon you like.

Is this true or false?

DOES the weapon damage of LIGHT and HEAVY attacks (left clicks) damage apply to Stamina/Magicka or does it not?

Yes, more or less. He is speaking in the context of attack weaving, where the damage differences would likely balance out, because while your light and heavies may not hit quite so hard as if you were truly specked in, the spell damage increase relative to staff would make up for it.

miklawceb17_ESO

While you can use a 2-hander or dual wield and actually have higher spell damage from it, you will miss out on magicka regen from staff heavy attack + all the passives. So even if you use a dual-wield or 2-hander for example on your bar with executes and stuff, i'd still recommend having a staff on at least your off-bar.

Vaerth

miklawceb17_ESO wrote: »

While you can use a 2-hander or dual wield and actually have higher spell damage from it, you will miss out on magicka regen from staff heavy attack + all the passives. So even if you use a dual-wield or 2-hander for example on your bar with executes and stuff, i'd still recommend having a staff on at least your off-bar.

I have never had any issues with magicka management with my 2H build though thanks to the champion system. Infact i usually only use light attacks to build ultimate faster lol.

Vaerth

Shunravi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

If you only use the weapon for light/heavy attacks and don't want to use any weapon skill, you can use any weapon you like.

Is this true or false?

DOES the weapon damage of LIGHT and HEAVY attacks (left clicks) damage apply to Stamina/Magicka or does it not?

Yes, more or less. He is speaking in the context of attack weaving, where the damage differences would likely balance out, because while your light and heavies may not hit quite so hard as if you were truly specked in, the spell damage increase relative to staff would make up for it.

So a staff does not generate more damage in the attack itself, rather it helps to maintain magicka where a 2H does not?

I think I get it now. However thansk to the Champion system I have had no issues with Magicka management.

AlnilamE

Vaerth wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

If you only use the weapon for light/heavy attacks and don't want to use any weapon skill, you can use any weapon you like.

Is this true or false?

DOES the weapon damage of LIGHT and HEAVY attacks (left clicks) damage apply to Stamina/Magicka or does it not?

Yes, more or less. He is speaking in the context of attack weaving, where the damage differences would likely balance out, because while your light and heavies may not hit quite so hard as if you were truly specked in, the spell damage increase relative to staff would make up for it.

So a staff does not generate more damage in the attack itself, rather it helps to maintain magicka where a 2H does not?

I think I get it now. However thansk to the Champion system I have had no issues with Magicka management.

Yeah. Because a heavy attack with a 2H will restore stamina, while a heavy attack with a staff will restore Magicka. So if you are not having mana management issues, you should be find (and you can always put an absorb magicka enchant on your weapon).