NB fear should be blockable

Attorneyatlawl

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

Soulac

Every class got a block / dodge ignoring stun, the mechanic is not unique or only available for nightblades.

If you run in an opponent with not enough Stamina to break the next stun, you deserve to die anyway. Any other stun will you kill as well or do you plan to perma block?

NBs mostly rely on burst (If they not run around as a 0815 sap tank) to kill their enemys.. ever tried to burst a perm block player? Doesn't work until he leaves his block.. he'd be immortal against the Nb, at least if he's not that bad.
Nb don't got dmg shields or insta heals, they need to be able to deal their dmg.


But in the case you want the Rise of the perma blocker, go on.. It will be even worse than it is already.

Divad Zarn

Yeah, lets delete NB class completely.

ginoboehm

hasn't streak and fossilize the same mechanic that it will stun you even if blocked? the fossilize uppercut combo is especially brutal. of course fear should be unblockable. The real problem is in the stupid TTK combine that with the latency and fear can often mean death. A stun with a similar mechanic as fear is shield charge

Morvul

ginoboehm wrote: »

hasn't streak and fossilize the same mechanic that it will stun you even if blocked? the fossilize uppercut combo is especially brutal. of course fear should be unblockable. The real problem is in the stupid TTK combine that with the latency and fear can often mean death. A stun with a similar mechanic as fear is shield charge

Streak was changed from a "disorient" to a "stun" in 1.6, which made it both blockable and provide CC immunity.

DK Fossilize, NB agony, Sorc Rune prison and Templar shards should also provide a "block bypassing" CC, by my understanding of gamemechanics.
(Personal experience with rune prison is a low success rate to CC blockers - I assume it's a L2P issue though and I'm not seeing those last swirvels of their CC imunity... needs more testing)

Principally I like the idea of certain CC bypassing block, as it offers an alternative to stamina drain strategies to deal with perma-blockers. That said: fear being unavoidable, 3 target, relatively long duration CC makes it very, very strong. I'm not entirely sure though if NBs would be still viable if fear would be nerfed...

jelliedsoup

meh fix frag, jesus beam, fossilise talons combo.

I agree that fear is op, but all classes have their op skills. Jesus beam kills me from full health in a second, coupled with lag of course.

i dislike shield stacking and cast blocking...whatareyagoingtodo?

skillastat

I must say that on my Tank this is the only skill I "fear"

Honfold

NBs do not have a class specific shield or reliable class heal as stated many many times before. NBs "escape" is very unreliable and can be broken by AOEs or potions. NBs need fear to go through block and people need to stop playing the game as if it is still summer 2014.

Bursting down a target that is permablocking can be impossible at times. Fear needs to go through block considering every other class either has a reliable self heal or damage shield that they can cast while blocking.

However I think it would be fine, but still an unnecessary nerf, if fear was broken when the target was damaged. I think a lot of people are misplacing their hate on fear when it should be on the buggy CC mechanics that have appeared sporadically since launch. I have died more than once tonight from CC break not working.

olsborg

Rune cage also goes through block, it has a ghastly cast time of 1.5 seconds tho.

Attorneyatlawl

Morvul wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

hasn't streak and fossilize the same mechanic that it will stun you even if blocked? the fossilize uppercut combo is especially brutal. of course fear should be unblockable. The real problem is in the stupid TTK combine that with the latency and fear can often mean death. A stun with a similar mechanic as fear is shield charge

Streak was changed from a "disorient" to a "stun" in 1.6, which made it both blockable and provide CC immunity.

DK Fossilize, NB agony, Sorc Rune prison and Templar shards should also provide a "block bypassing" CC, by my understanding of gamemechanics.
(Personal experience with rune prison is a low success rate to CC blockers - I assume it's a L2P issue though and I'm not seeing those last swirvels of their CC imunity... needs more testing)

Principally I like the idea of certain CC bypassing block, as it offers an alternative to stamina drain strategies to deal with perma-blockers. That said: fear being unavoidable, 3 target, relatively long duration CC makes it very, very strong. I'm not entirely sure though if NBs would be still viable if fear would be nerfed...

DK Fossilize breaks on damage. Sorc rune prison breaks on damage. Templar shards break on damage. Nightblade fear does not break on damage. See the issue? Rune prison also is a 1.5s cast, while the Templar's shards take about 2 seconds to land and are able to be proactively avoided as a result. NB fear is instant while affecting 3 targets and unblockable. The rest all are single-target CC.

1h Shield charge is blockable. 2h Critical charge is blockable. 2h Wrecking Blow is blockable. Streak is/was blockable (may have changed now in 2.0?). Templar Binding Javelin is blockable. Sorc Crystal Fragments are blockable. Fear is not blockable. Again, see the issue?

I play a sorc, dk, and nb with a long length of time having played them from beta through now, including v14 live characters that are well-geared of those three. NB's have sap essence and swallow soul as their "heals"/lifetaps, but that's not really related honestly to the topic. Each of the four classes has some extra bits they're stronger at, but inside of all of the weapon skill lines and class skill lines, the nightblade fear has no equal.

Spangla

um no.

Spangla

in exchange ill take a class based self heal or hardened ward.

Tonnopesce

YES so much this... or at least rebalance it somehow, you know right now the meta skills for a nightblade are fear -fear - fear - fear - fear- ambush - fear - fear - fear.

Spangla

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

hasn't streak and fossilize the same mechanic that it will stun you even if blocked? the fossilize uppercut combo is especially brutal. of course fear should be unblockable. The real problem is in the stupid TTK combine that with the latency and fear can often mean death. A stun with a similar mechanic as fear is shield charge

Streak was changed from a "disorient" to a "stun" in 1.6, which made it both blockable and provide CC immunity.

DK Fossilize, NB agony, Sorc Rune prison and Templar shards should also provide a "block bypassing" CC, by my understanding of gamemechanics.
(Personal experience with rune prison is a low success rate to CC blockers - I assume it's a L2P issue though and I'm not seeing those last swirvels of their CC imunity... needs more testing)

Principally I like the idea of certain CC bypassing block, as it offers an alternative to stamina drain strategies to deal with perma-blockers. That said: fear being unavoidable, 3 target, relatively long duration CC makes it very, very strong. I'm not entirely sure though if NBs would be still viable if fear would be nerfed...

Fossilize breaks on damage. Rune prison breaks on damage. Templar shards break on damage. Nightblade fear does not break on damage. See the issue? Rune prison also is a 1.5s cast, while the Templar's shards take about 2 seconds to land and are able to be proactively avoided as a result. NB fear is instant while affecting 3 targets and unblockable.

Shield charge is blockable. Critical charge is blockable. Wrecking Blow is blockable. Streak is/was blockable (may have changed now in 2.0?). Binding Javelin is blockable. Fear is not blockable. Again, see the issue?

I play a sorc, dk, and nb with a long length of time having played them from beta through now, including v14 live characters that are well-geared of those three. NB's have sap essence and swallow soul as their "heals"/lifetaps, but that's not really related honestly to the topic. Each of the four classes has some extra bits they're stronger at, but inside of all of the weapon skill lines and class skill lines, the nightblade fear has no equal.

Rune prison is ranged plus the caster has a ridiculously op ward and bol. DK have self heal plus reflect and talons which is also unblockable....

Op you are talking [snip]. Probably a sorc pro whiner. The only reason nb's can be powerful in this patch is because of dodge roll and two hander. Has nothing to do with fear on it's own. It is the ability to complete avoid damage inbwetween casts. This is dodgeroll problem.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Soulac

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

hasn't streak and fossilize the same mechanic that it will stun you even if blocked? the fossilize uppercut combo is especially brutal. of course fear should be unblockable. The real problem is in the stupid TTK combine that with the latency and fear can often mean death. A stun with a similar mechanic as fear is shield charge

Streak was changed from a "disorient" to a "stun" in 1.6, which made it both blockable and provide CC immunity.

DK Fossilize, NB agony, Sorc Rune prison and Templar shards should also provide a "block bypassing" CC, by my understanding of gamemechanics.
(Personal experience with rune prison is a low success rate to CC blockers - I assume it's a L2P issue though and I'm not seeing those last swirvels of their CC imunity... needs more testing)

Principally I like the idea of certain CC bypassing block, as it offers an alternative to stamina drain strategies to deal with perma-blockers. That said: fear being unavoidable, 3 target, relatively long duration CC makes it very, very strong. I'm not entirely sure though if NBs would be still viable if fear would be nerfed...

DK Fossilize breaks on damage. Sorc rune prison breaks on damage. Templar shards break on damage. Nightblade fear does not break on damage. See the issue? Rune prison also is a 1.5s cast, while the Templar's shards take about 2 seconds to land and are able to be proactively avoided as a result. NB fear is instant while affecting 3 targets and unblockable. The rest all are single-target CC.

1h Shield charge is blockable. 2h Critical charge is blockable. 2h Wrecking Blow is blockable. Streak is/was blockable (may have changed now in 2.0?). Templar Binding Javelin is blockable. Sorc Crystal Fragments are blockable. Fear is not blockable. Again, see the issue?

I play a sorc, dk, and nb with a long length of time having played them from beta through now, including v14 live characters that are well-geared of those three. NB's have sap essence and swallow soul as their "heals"/lifetaps, but that's not really related honestly to the topic. Each of the four classes has some extra bits they're stronger at, but inside of all of the weapon skill lines and class skill lines, the nightblade fear has no equal.

Fossilize is range and got root as an additional effect, basically twice as much Stamina drain.
Also it doesn't break instantly like our lovely Agony does.

Fear is melee range and countered by a simple break free, immovable or a potion.
As long as you're not affected by the break free bug (happens with all stuns, not fear only) you're able to break it before the NBs global CD runs out which results in a nearly useless fear in that case.

Fear is fine as it is and a viable counter to block cast, also needed for NBs to be able to take down tanks.
Everything need a counter, no exceptions and fear got his counters.
I seriously don't understand this crying just cause NBs have something you don't.

Cinbri

I agree, lets remove Fear to be sure that NBs will be more useless than current Templars.

Lyzaaa

The problem is that fear just stamina drains opponents heavily, no we dont want to *** over NB but we dont want nightblades to be like, stamina drain u forever until you're done for. AKA being certain of getting an opening for his burst.

Imo a suggestion that i havent seen before considering nightblade; is increasing the cost of fear AND cloak. WHY? -->

Simply because right now nightblades are really really safe clase despite having no heal or shields, roll dodging is afterall the best way to mitigate damage. I think there should be an offset wether the NB goes in for the kill and using fear, or if they want to be safe and using dark cloak.

Tripots are basicly making NB have best of both world's and its forcing other players an immense amount of effort, resource and items combined ( we're actually forced to run detection potions ) which is just to much all together, let alone trying to catch a cloaking roll dodging class. Mind anyone that says "muhh detect potions are op" no they're ur only argument to dark cloak not being broken. But in the end even if some1 pops detect potion they're gnna spend a *** ton of gapclosing you and trying to cc/hammer away. In the end NB have the most stamina regen naturally, trying to chase one and occasionaly being feared basicly means in the end u'll be worse off than the NB.

In other words it doesn't really matter which situation ur in, trying to kill a NB or "defending" against one. --> Ur gonna run out of stamina, and theres literally no counterplay.

PS: The class needs tweaks and different class ability costs. NOT nerfs i say per se.

Olivierko

Threads like this make me giggle.

Ryuho

Fear is okey.. Fossilize is okey.. Ummm, this1 thinks sorc should get also unblockable CC without cast time = remove cast time from rune cage !!

Rook_Master

I agree with Attorneyatlawl.

Fear should be broken by damage, and give CC immunity even if Break-Free is not used.

Either that, or, it should work as it did before, where you can block during the Fear duration. It was balanced before that 'fix'.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Divad Zarn wrote: »

Yeah, lets delete NB class completely.

That's what you took from this?

ginoboehm wrote: »

hasn't streak and fossilize the same mechanic that it will stun you even if blocked? the fossilize uppercut combo is especially brutal. of course fear should be unblockable. The real problem is in the stupid TTK combine that with the latency and fear can often mean death. A stun with a similar mechanic as fear is shield charge

Can you really fairly compare it to streak with a 1.5 stun? Fear is a 4 second duration along with forcing your character to move away and slowing them down. Not really in the same league at all. Believe me if streak worked as well as mass hysteria every sorc would be using it.

olsborg wrote: »

Rune cage also goes through block, it has a ghastly cast time of 1.5 seconds tho.

The idea that anyone can compare rune cage, a single target stun with a 1.5 cast time or even fossilize which is essentially the same is just absurd.

Spangla

Or we could not nerf nb and we could fix the role dodge problem instead.

This is the actual reason you are moaning, however you have failed to see the bigger picture.

Fear is annoying only because dodge rolling nb's can ignore all damage in between fears.

Bfish22090

If you have immovable up, will you still be feared?

reften

Fear is Zos's "fixing" of Dark/Shadow Cloak. They can't fix this skill, so they gave us something else

Spangla

Bfish22090 wrote: »

If you have immovable up, will you still be feared?

No, you will not. However the cc immunity granted by immovable has been reduced to only 5 seconds which is probably not enough really.

However the break free cost reduction of immovable if you wear heavy armour is still significant. I can honestly say i've never died to fear unless pvxing.

Soulac

Rook_Master wrote: »

I agree with Attorneyatlawl.

Fear should be broken by damage, and give CC immunity even if Break-Free is not used.

Either that, or, it should work as it did before, where you can block during the Fear duration. It was balanced before that 'fix'.

Do you still play 1.4 or something?
If you don't break fear you will get immunity as well

Rook_Master

Soulac wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

I agree with Attorneyatlawl.

Fear should be broken by damage, and give CC immunity even if Break-Free is not used.

Either that, or, it should work as it did before, where you can block during the Fear duration. It was balanced before that 'fix'.

Do you still play 1.4 or something?
If you don't break fear you will get immunity as well

@Soulac

I play the latest version, where you don't get automatic CC immunity from being Feared.

Although to be fair, you might not have known that wasn't changed, because now that you can't block during it, you are essentially dead anyway if you let the whole Fear run its duration.

Soulac

Rook_Master wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

I agree with Attorneyatlawl.

Fear should be broken by damage, and give CC immunity even if Break-Free is not used.

Either that, or, it should work as it did before, where you can block during the Fear duration. It was balanced before that 'fix'.

Do you still play 1.4 or something?
If you don't break fear you will get immunity as well

@Soulac

I play the latest version, where you don't get automatic CC immunity from being Feared.

Although to be fair, you might not have known that wasn't changed, because now that you can't block during it, you are essentially dead anyway if you let the whole Fear run its duration.

Well I get the immunity everytime, if I break the stun or not doesn't matter.

Rook_Master

Soulac wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

I agree with Attorneyatlawl.

Fear should be broken by damage, and give CC immunity even if Break-Free is not used.

Either that, or, it should work as it did before, where you can block during the Fear duration. It was balanced before that 'fix'.

Do you still play 1.4 or something?
If you don't break fear you will get immunity as well

@Soulac

I play the latest version, where you don't get automatic CC immunity from being Feared.

Although to be fair, you might not have known that wasn't changed, because now that you can't block during it, you are essentially dead anyway if you let the whole Fear run its duration.

Well I get the immunity everytime, if I break the stun or not doesn't matter.

If It don't break out of it I'm dead, lol.

Or maybe that is why they didn't bother putting CC immunity on the end?

Soulac

Rook_Master wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

I agree with Attorneyatlawl.

Fear should be broken by damage, and give CC immunity even if Break-Free is not used.

Either that, or, it should work as it did before, where you can block during the Fear duration. It was balanced before that 'fix'.

Do you still play 1.4 or something?
If you don't break fear you will get immunity as well

@Soulac

I play the latest version, where you don't get automatic CC immunity from being Feared.

Although to be fair, you might not have known that wasn't changed, because now that you can't block during it, you are essentially dead anyway if you let the whole Fear run its duration.

Well I get the immunity everytime, if I break the stun or not doesn't matter.

If It don't break out of it I'm dead, lol.

Or maybe that is why they didn't bother putting CC immunity on the end?

Sometimes you get feared in the moment your enemy dies or he's a tank with not enough dmg to kill you while feares. You don't need to waste your Stamina in these situations.

DDuke

People keep bringing the duration & it not breaking on damage up.

Fact is, fear is broken in less than 0,2 seconds by any decent player. This is less than the GCD caster gets (1.3 seconds).

Situations where fear can actually mean your death:

1. You are tanking multiple people and you aren't getting any outside heals/shields
2. You have very slow reaction time
3. You are out of stamina

Let's reflect on these for a moment:

1. Do you really think you should be able to tank multiple people permanently all by your lonesome without them being able to do anything about it? Or even one person for that matter?
2. So, player skill shouldn't matter? Or does holding right mouse button & smashing head on keyboard constitute as skill now?
3. Running out of stamina should have no consequences? That sounds like dumbing down to me.

That said, let's see how you can actively work to avoid fear (you know, by becoming a better player):

1. Do not stand right next to the NB, fear has a short melee range (you can melee NB outside the fear range in fact).
2. Improve your reaction time, if you can break it within 1,3 seconds you can survive a single NB. You likely have to be faster than that if facing multiple opponents.
3. If you keep running out of stamina, here's my advise: kill NB before you run out of stamina (or make him run out of stamina), or play a permablock build with infinite stamina.
4. If all else fails: slot Immovable

Have a good day.