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Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert [Bugged?] Also Major Damage Shield Issue
Kildayen
✭✭✭✭✭
Greeting Players and ZoS staff! I just took a lot of time testing and typing everything out and I hope this does not go to waste. This post will show you that something is badly broken with our Champion Point system. At the end of this post you will see that abilities are being affected incorrectly and that damage done as well as damage absorption is not working correctly.
There is a weird issue with Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert from the Champion Point trees. With 44 points put into Thaumaturge it is supposed to increase my damage with poison, disease, and magic by 14.1%. If I take those points and put them in Elemental Expert instead, then my flame, frost, and shock damage is supposed to be increased by 14.1%.
Here is where the bug comes in, and this has been tested with a few others as well with the same result. As a Sorc in PVP, I use a few abilities that do magic damage. Four of my main PVP attacks involve using Inevitable Detonation, Velocious Curse, Crystal Fragments, and Daedric Minefield. Being that these abilities are all magic damage abilities, I have all my points in Thaumaturge so I can take advantage of the extra 14.1% damage increase.
If I take all of my points out of Thaumaturge and put them into Elemental Expert, I get the same amount of damage on the tool tips for those same 4 abilities that do magic damage. I also do the same amount of damage on abilities that do flame, frost and shock damage when I have all my points in Thaumaturge. Why do these abilities do the same amount with both Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert, when Thaumaturge is supposed to INCREASE only Magic Damage and Elemental Expert only flame, frost and shock? Shouldn't the tool tips be different for each? Am I not understanding something?
Things get even weirder with my damage shields. Stay tuned until the end...
Let me give you the full active breakdown, although this is going to cost me another 12,000 gold to get back to my current setup. Hopefully ZoS can refund this.
All tests were done wearing the same armor and weapons and with the following active buffs: Supernatural Recovery, Stage 4 Vampirism, Offensive Scroll Bonus 1, Enemy Keep Bonus 3, Dark Stalker, Boon: The Mage, Battle Spirit. My magicka pool also stayed the same.
Test #1:
Champion Point Distribution
The Apprentice (1 point in Elfborn - Increase Spell Critical Damage by 1%, 1 point in Spell Erosion - Increase Spell Resistance Ignored by 1%)
The Ritual (44 points in Thaumaturge - Increase Damage with Poison, Disease, and Magic by 14.1%)
The Lord (47 points in Bastion - Increase the Effectiveness of Damage Absorbing Effects by 14.2%)
The Tower (47 points in Magician - Reduces the Magicka cost of spells by 10.1%)
With the above Champion Points in place, here are the numbers from my tool tips:
Crystal Fragments - 10179 Magic Damage
Velocious Curse - 8776 Magic Damage and 4040 Magic Damage to nearby enemies
Inevitable Detonation - 10530 Magic Damage
Daedric Minefield - 7161 Magic Damage
Boundless Storm - Increase Spell Resistance by 5120 and 684 Shock Damage to nearby enemies
Crushing Shock - 1896 Flame, Cold and Shock Damage
Lightning Flood - 1046 Shock Damage and 6619 Shock Damage to enemies from Synergy if activated
Endless Fury - 2558 Shock Damage, 8274 Shock Damage and 1653 Shock Damage to nearby enemies. Restore 3425 Magicka
Hardened Ward - Absorb 11065 damage plus 33%
Harness Magicka - Absorb up to 12536 Spell Damage and restore 1139 Magicka plus 6% for each piece of light armor equipped
Healing Ward - 2486 heal and 5606 damage absorbing ward
Healing Springs - 1923 Health Restoration
Now when I change my Champion Points, removing Thaumaturge from the equation and putting all 44 points into Elemental Expert, all the numbers stay the same. Keep in mind that the only Champion Point Passive I get from making this change is the Increase Spell Critical Rating by 12%. This should not affect the tool tips at all.
What happens when I take those 44 points out of the equation and not have any points in Thaumaturge or Elemental Expert? All the other points remain. This is the end result:
Test #2:
Champion Point Distribution
The Apprentice (1 point in Elfborn - Increase Spell Critical Damage by 1%, 1 point in Spell Erosion - Increase Spell Resistance Ignored by 1%)
The Lord (47 points in Bastion - Increase the Effectiveness of Damage Absorbing Effects by 14.2%)
The Tower (47 points in Magician - Reduces the Magicka cost of spells by 10.1%)
With the above Champion Points in place, here are the numbers from my tool tips:
Crystal Fragments - 9844 Magic Damage
Velocious Curse - 8488 Magic Damage and 3908 Magic Damage to nearby enemies
Inevitable Detonation - 10183 Magic Damage
Daedric Minefield -6987 Magic Damage
Boundless Storm - Increase Spell Resistance by 5120 and 661 Shock Damage to nearby enemies
Crushing Shock - 1834 Flame, Cold and Shock Damage
Lightning Flood - 1012 Shock Damage and 6400 Shock Damage to enemies from Synergy if activated
Endless Fury - 2474 Shock Damage, 8002 Shock Damage and 1599 Shock Damage to nearby enemies. Restore 3425 Magicka
Hardened Ward - Absorb 10461 damage plus 33%
Harness Magicka - Absorb up to 11853 Spell Damage and restore 1076 Magicka plus 6% for each piece of light armor equipped
Healing Ward - 2403 heal and 5418 damage absorbing ward
Healing Springs - 1859 Health Restoration
As you can see from the numbers that are bolded out, all the damage amounts go down on the tool tips. This proves to me that the tool tips should definitely be different depending on where the points are placed (Thaumaturge vs Elemental Expert)
Here is where things get even more broken. Look at the healing amounts and the shield amounts compared to the original test numbers. Not only does the amount I heal for go down, but the amount of my damage shields lower too! Why is Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert affecting my Damage Absorption abilities?
I know your focus is on the console release right now, but I would really appreciate an answer to this. Thank you.
There is a weird issue with Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert from the Champion Point trees. With 44 points put into Thaumaturge it is supposed to increase my damage with poison, disease, and magic by 14.1%. If I take those points and put them in Elemental Expert instead, then my flame, frost, and shock damage is supposed to be increased by 14.1%.
Here is where the bug comes in, and this has been tested with a few others as well with the same result. As a Sorc in PVP, I use a few abilities that do magic damage. Four of my main PVP attacks involve using Inevitable Detonation, Velocious Curse, Crystal Fragments, and Daedric Minefield. Being that these abilities are all magic damage abilities, I have all my points in Thaumaturge so I can take advantage of the extra 14.1% damage increase.
If I take all of my points out of Thaumaturge and put them into Elemental Expert, I get the same amount of damage on the tool tips for those same 4 abilities that do magic damage. I also do the same amount of damage on abilities that do flame, frost and shock damage when I have all my points in Thaumaturge. Why do these abilities do the same amount with both Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert, when Thaumaturge is supposed to INCREASE only Magic Damage and Elemental Expert only flame, frost and shock? Shouldn't the tool tips be different for each? Am I not understanding something?
Things get even weirder with my damage shields. Stay tuned until the end...
Let me give you the full active breakdown, although this is going to cost me another 12,000 gold to get back to my current setup. Hopefully ZoS can refund this.
All tests were done wearing the same armor and weapons and with the following active buffs: Supernatural Recovery, Stage 4 Vampirism, Offensive Scroll Bonus 1, Enemy Keep Bonus 3, Dark Stalker, Boon: The Mage, Battle Spirit. My magicka pool also stayed the same.
Test #1:
Champion Point Distribution
The Apprentice (1 point in Elfborn - Increase Spell Critical Damage by 1%, 1 point in Spell Erosion - Increase Spell Resistance Ignored by 1%)
The Ritual (44 points in Thaumaturge - Increase Damage with Poison, Disease, and Magic by 14.1%)
The Lord (47 points in Bastion - Increase the Effectiveness of Damage Absorbing Effects by 14.2%)
The Tower (47 points in Magician - Reduces the Magicka cost of spells by 10.1%)
With the above Champion Points in place, here are the numbers from my tool tips:
Crystal Fragments - 10179 Magic Damage
Velocious Curse - 8776 Magic Damage and 4040 Magic Damage to nearby enemies
Inevitable Detonation - 10530 Magic Damage
Daedric Minefield - 7161 Magic Damage
Boundless Storm - Increase Spell Resistance by 5120 and 684 Shock Damage to nearby enemies
Crushing Shock - 1896 Flame, Cold and Shock Damage
Lightning Flood - 1046 Shock Damage and 6619 Shock Damage to enemies from Synergy if activated
Endless Fury - 2558 Shock Damage, 8274 Shock Damage and 1653 Shock Damage to nearby enemies. Restore 3425 Magicka
Hardened Ward - Absorb 11065 damage plus 33%
Harness Magicka - Absorb up to 12536 Spell Damage and restore 1139 Magicka plus 6% for each piece of light armor equipped
Healing Ward - 2486 heal and 5606 damage absorbing ward
Healing Springs - 1923 Health Restoration
Now when I change my Champion Points, removing Thaumaturge from the equation and putting all 44 points into Elemental Expert, all the numbers stay the same. Keep in mind that the only Champion Point Passive I get from making this change is the Increase Spell Critical Rating by 12%. This should not affect the tool tips at all.
What happens when I take those 44 points out of the equation and not have any points in Thaumaturge or Elemental Expert? All the other points remain. This is the end result:
Test #2:
Champion Point Distribution
The Apprentice (1 point in Elfborn - Increase Spell Critical Damage by 1%, 1 point in Spell Erosion - Increase Spell Resistance Ignored by 1%)
The Lord (47 points in Bastion - Increase the Effectiveness of Damage Absorbing Effects by 14.2%)
The Tower (47 points in Magician - Reduces the Magicka cost of spells by 10.1%)
With the above Champion Points in place, here are the numbers from my tool tips:
Crystal Fragments - 9844 Magic Damage
Velocious Curse - 8488 Magic Damage and 3908 Magic Damage to nearby enemies
Inevitable Detonation - 10183 Magic Damage
Daedric Minefield -6987 Magic Damage
Boundless Storm - Increase Spell Resistance by 5120 and 661 Shock Damage to nearby enemies
Crushing Shock - 1834 Flame, Cold and Shock Damage
Lightning Flood - 1012 Shock Damage and 6400 Shock Damage to enemies from Synergy if activated
Endless Fury - 2474 Shock Damage, 8002 Shock Damage and 1599 Shock Damage to nearby enemies. Restore 3425 Magicka
Hardened Ward - Absorb 10461 damage plus 33%
Harness Magicka - Absorb up to 11853 Spell Damage and restore 1076 Magicka plus 6% for each piece of light armor equipped
Healing Ward - 2403 heal and 5418 damage absorbing ward
Healing Springs - 1859 Health Restoration
As you can see from the numbers that are bolded out, all the damage amounts go down on the tool tips. This proves to me that the tool tips should definitely be different depending on where the points are placed (Thaumaturge vs Elemental Expert)
Here is where things get even more broken. Look at the healing amounts and the shield amounts compared to the original test numbers. Not only does the amount I heal for go down, but the amount of my damage shields lower too! Why is Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert affecting my Damage Absorption abilities?
I know your focus is on the console release right now, but I would really appreciate an answer to this. Thank you.
2
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Jaerlach✭✭✭These champion passives are not visible on your tooltips. The tooltip increase you are seeing is due to the increased magicka for spending the points. Every champion point you spend increases the associated stat (eg blue=magicka) by a small amount. When you are talking about 50+ points at a time, you are gaining a over a thousand magicka which will change the tooltip of all magicka scaling abilities.
If you test on targets you will get different damages.Edited by Jaerlach on April 27, 2015 10:47PMJaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
DC - NA first SO speed run & first Hardmode Speedrun
NA Record Vet DSA: 115192 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Are you actually testing damage or just reading tooltips?V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Kildayen✭✭✭✭✭Seriously? I wasted all that effort because the tool tips don't reflect the champion points? Wow, way to pwn me, Zenimax...
What a waste of time. Why don't the Champion Points change the tool tips, @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else who can answer? I just wasted 15k gold testing this out.
Totally pwned
0 -
Kildayen✭✭✭✭✭There really isn't an accurate way to check the damage. Basically I just wasted a few hours of my time.0
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Sharkano✭✭✭✭I can tell you for certain that a bunch of the CP's are bugged and do not do what they say. I have stacked mine in ones that work, and leave off certain ones that simply do not. I have spent tens of thousands of gold in live testing because ZOS is too incompetent/bored/jaded/whatever to do it themselves. The simple fact is they need to devote some meaningful effort to checking every single CP passive instead of letting the fan base do it, and then ignoring the comments. One guy/gal, three days, 6 pizzas and two sixpacks of Newcastle would cover testing every single CP passive. They can then publish a list with the 20 or so that don't work correctly, and tell us when they will be fixed. That's what a responsible vendor would do.2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭Seriously? I wasted all that effort because the tool tips don't reflect the champion points? Wow, way to pwn me, Zenimax...
What a waste of time. Why don't the Champion Points change the tool tips, @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else who can answer? I just wasted 15k gold testing this out.
Totally pwned
This is the way they wanted it.. like i keep saying..
They told my guild they didnt want to many numbers and things that might confuse people even though not having any information makes things even more confusing in the end. This was in a ZOS meeting right before the game was going live where we tried to give feedback. They told us they didnt want people number crunching and all sorts of things that dont make sense in a MMO.1 -
Sacadon✭✭✭✭✭If you test on PTS it doesn't cost you anything and you can use damage logging tools to see the impact/affect of a change in point allocation. This does work.
As they stated above every increase in a constellation adds to the respective pools up to 1000 points at which point it stops. For example, add a point to Mage then your magicka pool is increased, Warrior health and Thief stamina.
I've tested Thaumaturge and Elemental and they both worked fine. EDIT: Bastion works as well.
The only thing that I know of broken right now is Spell Shield.Edited by Sacadon on April 27, 2015 11:46PM0 -
felinith66✭✭✭Seriously? I wasted all that effort because the tool tips don't reflect the champion points? Wow, way to pwn me, Zenimax...
What a waste of time. Why don't the Champion Points change the tool tips, @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else who can answer? I just wasted 15k gold testing this out.
Totally pwned
Exactly. The main reason they increased the numbers was so people can see the effect of the CP's to their stats, and yet the tooltip doesn't reflect this. Great work from ZOS as usual.Edited by felinith66 on April 28, 2015 1:17AM0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There really isn't an accurate way to check the damage. Basically I just wasted a few hours of my time.
There is an accurate way lol. Attack something and record what damage does. ATM, Combat Analyatics is the only dps addon that allows you to save sessions. However, there are plenty of dps addons. Download it or something else and record the actual damage your hits do as you change your cps/gear around.
Many people are running into Sanctum Ophidia and running past the first trash mob and testing dps on that single mob once you get down into the Mantikora's area.Edited by timidobserver on April 28, 2015 12:25AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0