Content starved

PKMN12

Dixa wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

As soon as the announced B2P I canceled my sub and have logged in about 3-4 times since. There is no hope left for any PvP focused players.

this is not a pvp focused game. it was never sold as such. those games exist - guild wars 2 for example. this is not one of them.

this is still primarily a pve game.

um, have you not seen ANY of the Cinematics, or the advertising, or most of the stuff the devs were talking about before and during beta......

This game was supposed be PRIMARILY PVP, the PVE thing was a side thing to get non-PVPers into the game. For a long time in beta, you could not be a only-PVE player, not really. as there was a lot of somewhat important PVE content in Cyrodiil.

All the ever talked about was the alliance war, A LOT of the quests in game are against other factions, clearly stearing you toward fighting against that faction in ,PVP, and so many other things clearly showed that they supposedly wanted a PVP focused game. It was only after it was proven they were being INCREDIBLY delusional about the possibility of having even 50 people on-screen, let a lone 4x that amount at once and not have horrible, horrible lag, was the PVP-hype stopped.

Lionxoft

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

People are going to quickly be disappointed this isnt skyrim online. Remember 80% on console was only skyrim not all TES titles. Just like the PC people complained thinking it would be more like skyrim. So ya I agree with whoever said the console crowd probably wont be the games savior.

The console market for MMO is pretty barren though. Look at DC Universe Online for example. That game is barely functional due to population on the USPC servers however its USPS servers are completely funding the game's future development and content patches. Over 70% of their revenue is generated from the PS platform.

Lionxoft

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Sure, the game has a strong focus on PvE, and that's really the only part that works right now, but please don't try to claim that the game was not meant to appeal to PvP focused players. It very obviously tried to get them on board as well.

The PvP part of ESO was, and still is, marketed pretty strongly as a unique, innovative and central part of the game experience, not a marginalized side show. They are still promising "Massive, epic battles" with "hundreds of players on screen at once" :
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Sad part is I suspect they knew the limitations of the engine before they wrote that. Dont know for sure.

They should really change that verbiage because it's not at all true and the game is still touting that line as a selling point.

Audigy

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

What's wrong with grinding CP's?

Because spending days, weeks and even months running around killing the same mobs in the same places to get a few % increase in some stats is FUN?

Isn't this what people do in trials and dungeons as well? I always thought that this is what defines an MMO, I mean at least this is what people have always thrown at me when I complained about the massive focus on raid content here at ESO.
Guess, its not so much fun after all then and we can finally admit that such content has no place in MMOs anymore.

Heads up for housing, spell weaving and a new solo quest zone then.

DDuke

Audigy wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

What's wrong with grinding CP's?

Because spending days, weeks and even months running around killing the same mobs in the same places to get a few % increase in some stats is FUN?

Isn't this what people do in trials and dungeons as well? I always thought that this is what defines an MMO, I mean at least this is what people have always thrown at me when I complained about the massive focus on raid content here at ESO.
Guess, its not so much fun after all then and we can finally admit that such content has no place in MMOs anymore.

Heads up for housing, spell weaving and a new solo quest zone then.

I don't think you quite understood that.

The idea is that you do not grind the same mobs in the same places (trials or not) for over a year.

How successful MMOs operate is that they introduce new content before (or shortly after) the previous content is exhausted.

After this, you either progress in the next tier of raiding or you farm the old tier for better gear, so you can progress in the next one (there is always a goal, something to look forward to).

In ESO we miss the following:

• New (Raid) Content
• Real Raids
• Real reasons to do these raids (the gear is garbage)
• Progression

Audigy

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

What's wrong with grinding CP's?

Because spending days, weeks and even months running around killing the same mobs in the same places to get a few % increase in some stats is FUN?

Isn't this what people do in trials and dungeons as well? I always thought that this is what defines an MMO, I mean at least this is what people have always thrown at me when I complained about the massive focus on raid content here at ESO.
Guess, its not so much fun after all then and we can finally admit that such content has no place in MMOs anymore.

Heads up for housing, spell weaving and a new solo quest zone then.

I don't think you quite understood that.

The idea is that you do not grind the same mobs in the same places for over a year.

How successful MMOs operate is that they introduce new content before (or shortly after) the previous content is exhausted.

After this, you either progress in the next tier of raiding or you farm the old tier for better gear, so you can progress in the next one (there is always a goal, something to look forward to).

In ESO we miss the following:

• New (Raid) Content
• Real Raids
• Real reasons to do these raids (the gear is garbage)
• Progression

I have been raiding for many years and the typical raid schedule always looked like this.

1-4. Week

learn tactics of the new encounters on the PTR, farm flasks, food etc. on the live server

5-8

Clear the raid on the life servers (could also take 2-3 months, Vanilla WOW & TBC)

9+

farm the same bosses for BIS, equip alts and off specs.

This usually made a 3-4 month schedule spent almost daily in the same environment with the same 12 encounters and trash mobs.

So how is this considered fine and good, if people complain about the CS already since day 1? The CS offers us to play where we want and how (ok its debatable if this currently works to 100%, but in theory it should)
Don't get me wrong, I am not here to defend the CS, but in my opinion people have double standards here. In the end, its both a grind and kind of boring.

You are right that new content should always be supplied faster than the old lasts, but besides Vanilla WOW and TBC - no MMO I ever raided in managed this and there are also a lot of people (the majority) who doesn't raid, so that such a development would be very one sided, don't you think? In my opinion, ESO would do well if they would offer a two way char progression system.
If we could unlock meaningful things by playing either in trials or dungeon / PVP / quest & RP content, then this would lift ESO up to a whole new level if you ask me.

My favorite raid progression always was if I saw it on my char and not with gear. At Vanilla WOW we had spell tomes in AQ, I loved that. Shame it wasn't more than just 3 or 4 per class. But this is what would motivate me to raid again in an MMO; to acquire something that actually lasts longer than the usual 3-4 months of a raid tier.

Same of course applies to questing / zones like Craglorn. A system that enhances my characters not by gear (except for transmog maybe), but my stats and new abilities. I said it a while ago, we could need some char reputation, so that our standings improve our access to furniture for a house, spell crafting ingredients, followers ... Stuff that lasts and is there until we quit ESO. Offer this for raiders and non raiders and all are happy, perfect system, but sadly seldom pulled off in MMO´s these days.

Daenerys

I'm just going to leave this here. I feel as if I could type till my fingers bleed and it wouldn't matter. http://tamrielfoundry.com/2015/04/eso-content-crawl/

pugyourself

Razzak wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Console release is in June.

And we are told we are waiting 1-2 months post console release to get new content. And I'm guessing that's a conservative estimate.

I just want to know what you're thinking Zos. Please, I just want to understand. You do realize Craglorn was released a year ago right? And you do release that with the estimate of getting new content in fall, sanctum will have been released a year ago from that, right? These trials take us anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes to complete.

10-30 minutes.
1 year without new ones to do.



Like..... Wut?

I agree.

But think about it. Like you said, it's been a year since last new content, so they must already something new developed. The problem is, they know if they release this new content before June, they will have to incorporate it in console launch. Meaning they would not earn millions by selling it separately to console players.
Ever since last autumn, ESO has become all about console players, as they estimate there will be more of them than there will be PC players.

This is correct IMHO. unfortunately that doesn't make it "right".

Sylveria_Relden

You know, I hate to admit it... but I think I found something I actually agree with Razzak on LOL

I do also agree with pugyourself, that it's not "right" or "ethical", even if it's solidly justified in business principle.

Then again- I'm cynical in that I believe "business ethics" is an oxymoron and the two words are mutually exclusive of one another.

Schurge

qsnoopyjr wrote: »

I strongly dislike the WvW/AvA system in this game, it just doesn't feel competitive as compared to the GW2 WvW where they have tiers. This game should've had a small scale arena instead of wasting time on WvW/AvA. Just because another game (GW2) is successful with it doesn't mean you will be too. If you want to compare the 2 games, GW2 WvW has 4 instances per tier can be 70+ people to max it out, tier 1 and 2 get maxed out on resets, that's 8 different instances... You still have the other tiers to consider as well.. This game, there's only like 7 instances of AvA, all the same thing, just a different name, AND I hardly ever see them all maxed out.
If anything, this game should have been OPEN world PvP because its set up like it SHOULD be OPEN WORLD PvP. Also, the GW2 tier system.... Has competitive leaderboard. People actually care about it, this game I could careless, its only who has the scrolls, and I kinda... careless about that too. The WvW/AvA in this game is just too big, so much riding on a horse... I feel like I'm just repeating myself in a different thread... But again, game needs to be innovative, not try to copy what another game has already done but 1 up it. Really should have had OPEN WORLD PvP, or an ARENA.
Truth be told, a lot of people like arena style, look at movies like Spartacus and Gladiator and other arena type movies, highly successful. If they made a game that had that much hype as well, it would be highly successful. This game could've went that route rather than having a WvW/AvA.

GW2 was not successful with World PvP... And I am crying inside that you think they were inspired by GW2. GW2 world PvP is perhaps the worst in existence aside from WoW and while ESO didn't nail it is a step forward while GW2 was a humongous step backwards from all the other World PvP MMOs that came before it.

Hrm... I've reached a point in my gaming life where I can say "back in my day..."

Dixa

Lionxoft wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

other seemingly cash grab studios are making the video game industry.

you do understand that you are empowering these companies to behave like this, yes?

a study was done about 3 years about about how f2p games really work and how they are made profitable. it all boils down to the human psyche.

it does not matter how much willpower you think you have, how much you say you have. how much willpower you have displayed in other forms. if a f2p game advertises that carrot enough times, and as you see those around you with less willpower buy said items, your willpower is worn down and overcome. note: this paper was done by psychologists, not journalists or marketers.


with the vocal masses insisting every damned game be f2p, you open yourself up to dealing with this kind of behaviour. the HYSTERICAL masses that do not own calculators and somehow think a 14.99 sub for a game they 500-1000 hours of enjoyment out of before they put down is less value than a 60 dollar game with a 6 hour campaign are what disgust me entirely.

if these vocal masses are unwilling to pay to keep the lights on, then these companies have to rely on the whales and overcoming your willpower to make you want to spend in other ways, and ultimately spend MORE than you would have if it was just a sub game.

@Dixa

Maybe you have misunderstood me. I fully support the subscription only model however if a game isn't producing quality content on a decent schedule then we will have issues and I will stop subscribing. The content release record of ESO was not acceptable and still is not. If Zenimax offers great content and I want to say it again... If Zenimax offers great content then I will purchase it. There's absolutely no reason to give them any funds right now and none of that can be pinned on me as being stubborn. It all leads back to Zenimax making the foolish decision to wait until after console launch to offer new content. That failure is not the customer's fault. If they offered a good quality DLC today then there's a good chance I would buy it but they are not. They are choosing to neglect their game until consoles are released under the facade of "Letting the game breathe". I believe expecting players to keep buying even when there's nothing to buy is a bad expectation.

Also, when I speak about toxic companies such as Zenimax Media Inc. I'm not particularly speaking about Zenimax Online Studios. For example, Zenimax Online Studios stated that they would never change the game to encourage the players to buy something off of the crown store but there was a fairly well known nerf to the game to spark interest in an item in the store this week. The same can be said about the inevitable and infamous XP Boosters. Zenimax Online Studios also nerfed XP gains in Craglorn to near nothing to make these boosters more attractive. I don't believe this to be the strategy of ZOS but rather their upper management team is being pushed into selling more at the expense of their previous commitments to the players. That is toxic behavior.

I don't mind paying for a product but it better be damn good for me to buy it. ESO is devalued when compared to games such as Oblivion or Skyrim where the replay value is rich. Both were $60 games at one point and they are cheaper now but their replay value and excitement is still there. ESO is a year old and has already become stale at the cost of well over $200 however I've spent thousands of enjoyable and epic hours in Oblivion and Skyrim for considerably less than that.

I'd like new content. I don't mind paying extra for it as a DLC but to blame me for not opening my wallet to support a game that isn't offering anything different than what I've already bought is absurd. Also, changing your base game in order to sell more microtransactions is absurd and is even something they said they wouldn't do.

TL:DR
I don't mind paying a subscription when the game has frequent content updates, bug fixes, good performance and quality support. ESO has none of that as of late. Taking things out of the base game which costs usually $60 in order to make DLC or micro transactions more attractive is toxic. Paying for non-day one DLC to supplement a fantastic base game is acceptable to me.

I agree with you, to an extent.

There are no companies like Blizzard. It is not possible for mmorpg game companies - especially for new, untested IP's in the genre - to produce at the quantity and quality that Blizzard can do. Even Wildstar has failed miserably with similar launch year claims. The only game that produces quality content at a brisk pace is Funcom with The Secret World, however that game didn't exactly launch with a ton of things to do.

If you do it legitimately without excessive mob grinding, it takes a normal player at least 150 hours to finish all three factions through normal and vet play, and then there is craglorn. For ESO, there is a heavier emphasis on the leveling experience than the end game, but endgame is there. This game is missing a working, quality grouping tool though. For everyone of you complaining on the boards of doing and seeing everything, there are at least 5 players still struggling to get at least one veteran dungeon run per weekend.

150+ hours to see all of the leveling content which only takes you to about vr10, then you have craglorn and likely given the current state of the game a new player likely has yet to see a single group dungeon. Wildstar took less than an hour per level on average for all of it's classes, and most folks blow through wow's 100 levels in about 30 hours of play time now.

So while it would be great if this company had created and spat out a bit more content, that would not have headed off these threads from existing. No company can make a game that appeals to everyone. There will always be a group that blows through it all - takes pride they were so quick and fast and efficient - and then goes to the forums to complain there needs to be more. All while Working Joe is only halfway through the leveling process.

These game makers will not cater to that crowd. Doing so would in a way demoralize Working Joe into thinking that he/she has no way of ever catching up, and he/she should just go back to their last game or to a different game. This exact thinking is what bit Carbine right in their virtual butts and forced them to abandon their 40 man raid plans entirely.

When I came back two weeks ago I decided to start anew. I had a vr4 sorc about 4 weeks after launch, but between the release of several other games I had been waiting for and the fact that my friends - whom are all Working Joe's with families - were so far behind me I lost interest until recently. I started with a nightblade just cause. I'm almost 46, not quite done with Riften but it's going grey and have 59 hours played. Completing every POI, lorebook, skyshard but not all sidequests in the areas only the ones required to complete the POI's. That is quite a bit of time played given the state of recent mmorpg releases and one could say I have at least another 100 hours to go to hit VR14.

Not because leveling is slow. This is my second character a year later and it does not feel slow at all - and I think that is because our sole source of skill points is not tied to level. No, it still feels adequate and a rewarding pace and I feel immersed in the game even though i'm clicking passed all dialog before it even registers on screen. I'm not partaking in justice. I am doing no crafting outside of sending everything to my sorc (on whom I maxed all crafting) to break down. However I refused to powerlevel in FG as so many are doing now, because I take no enjoyment in having to go back to these lowbie areas later to get the skill points I missed.

This slower pace is..welcome. What kept the game down last year was unreasonable expectations by players - they wanted skyrim, with friends. That's not feasible. The single player elder scrolls games do not lend themselves to multiplayer as they are. They complained about combat feeling weak. Combat in daggerfall, morrowind, oblivion and skyrim felt weak too - no feedback or thump when you hit something, not like 2h in eso now.

I am rambling. I have been playing MUD's and MMORPG's since 1993 and there is one constant - complaint threads made without context, experience or reasonable expectations. While yes, Zenimax could have put out more content IF they had a larger dev team - they do not. This team has promised a console version for years now and it is technically a year late. They have to get that out. Now. or lose more potential future revenue above and beyond what they would be losing by not creating more raid or group content that fewer people will partake in over the next few months.

No revenue, no game.

eldermpsmithrwb17_ESO

you can tell that the dev efforts at the moment are focused on console release. However in the long run this could work to PC players favour. Bigger install base, bigger crown sales. From the business side the bigger the game is the more content we can get. At the moment console has the bigger platform. We will benefit if the console sales do well.

In the meantime, patience is the only solution, and the devs won't like it, but going to play other games in the mean time, till new content released.

Im not getting the Undaunted drops i need after heaps of runs, PvP is hit and miss. With 4 vet chars i don't have the interest in leveling another char again. And not enough people interested in Craglorn Quests, however i love them. Sad face

The hardest part is i really love the game.

DDuke

Dixa wrote: »

-snip-

I actually went through and read all that.

A couple of points:

• Not releasing content isn't helping anyone, quite the opposite. It drives the more dedicated people away from the game, leaving it quite difficult for your "Working Joe" to find groups or videos on youtube explaining the fights. Not to mention that this is simply just a loss of revenue.
• This has no effect on your gameplay, as you aren't out of content anyhow (according to your own words). I wonder what you're even doing in this thread.
• If you started playing at launch and had played even half an hour a day (or 3.5 hours/week total), you'd have reached VR14 by now according to your own math (though in reality you can get there much faster). If not, cool. Chances are you'll die of old age before you run out of content, even if they completely stopped developing the game. Now tell me, why should they not develop content for Player Base X, simply because Player Base Y doesn't need it yet? The only thing you accomplish that way is getting rid of your Player Base X.
• People did not want "Skyrim with friends", yet that is what this game seems to be turning into with the complete neglect of end game PvE & PvP, and the DLC "adventures" that scale to your level they've said will be coming.
• Really, you think this is all because of "having to get console version out"? No. This is all just to squeeze every dollar out of those gullible console peasants players by storing up DLC at the expense of the loyal PC players (paid by their subscription money) and then releasing it via Cash Shop to the console audience. Greed.

But yes, if you're observant enough you might realize something:

They are aiming towards short term money, i.e. attracting new players instead of keeping the old ones who actually cared about the game enough to buy it 2014. In the industry, this is called a "cash grab", I call it a "scam".

They know very well this game will not have a long term future with such a strategy, yet they still go ahead with it so they can get the most money at the expense of our enjoyment.

Disgusting, to say the least.

BugCollector

Yeah, I'm already content starved and my guildies are fleeing from the game because of it.

BugCollector

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can we expect some new content before the console release?